Keith,My last post to you was being written in response to your third to last post. I was in the midst of writing it when you added your last two posts which I did not see, fyi.Kathi

Yes Keith, I disagree with that. It was the power that is linked to the resurrection, not the Sonship.Also, I disagree…and so do other church fathers, btw, about those who believe that the Son did not become the Son till after creation, so do the main Christian creeds. I even once showed you a council that said those who believe in such a way,…[Read more]

Keith,Also, Jack believes that the Son had a beginning because there was a time when He was not the Son. I think he believes that the Word didn't have a beginning, but as the Son, the Son had a beginning. From what I can tell anyway. You do have different Jesus' because His Jesus wasn't a Son till the resurrection, your Jesus was always…[Read more]

Keith,I believe that Jesus is fully God because He is the son and fully man. I do think that is what many of the forefathers believe also, the part about Jesus being God because He is the Son of God. His relation to the Father as a true Son is what makes Him what the Father is. You take that true relationship away and you have not a literal son…[Read more]

Jack,Do you think that Jesus was as powerful before the resurrection as He was after the decree?Sorry, didn't mean to sound patronizing. I do think that it is strange how you and Keith come off as one trinitarian voice when you understand a different Jesus than he does.

Keith,Do you think that God, the unbegotten is the same one as God, the begotten? If not, then you have two. The oneness is in their essence and how they act as one mind. Therefore you can say, for us there is one God, the Father, the unbegotten God and one Lord, Jesus Christ, the begotten God. Would you say that last sentence would be correct…[Read more]

Hi Jack,I know that you realize you understand it very differently than most of orthodox christianity and I have to go by what I believe God showed me regarding the light. I know that God brought the firstborn into the world when the firstborn became a man. He was an incarnated earthly son to God then and before that He was God's heavenly Son,…[Read more]

Mike,About your dog analogy…I was thinking that if you used the word 'canine' it would be a little more compatible as an example. For instance…In the beginning was the word, the word was with the canine, the word was canine. The 'the' is necessary, the 'a' would not be. I wouldn't capitalize canine because our language doesn't have a…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 28 2011,11:18)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 27 2011,20:08)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2011,15:15)KathiI find it amazing that like Mike you also use “Trinitarian” quotes to prove the opposite of their conclusions.The next page of your source says (emphasis mine)…Chapter 8.—Whatever is Spoken of God According to S…[Read more]

Mike,Jesus was tempted according to the flesh, not according to His perfect God nature. Also, Jesus died according to His flesh and not according to His perfect God nature. One is God of the other but that doesn't mean one is perfect and the other isn't as perfect otherwise the other wouldn't be perfect at all.As far as Jason, if he doesn't deal…[Read more]

MikeQuote Because there is only ONE God Most High. And if that God beget another god who is IDENTICAL, then we now have TWO Gods Most High. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm…………..what does MOST mean again?One God most high…unbegottenOne God most high…begottentogether they act as one mind.Can you conceive of the Son and Father as being perfect and more…[Read more]

Mike,What does your Greek guy say about the 'the' in part b?

Mike,I don't think one begotten or one who begets can get higher than perfect. Perfect begets perfect.

Mike,God is perfect and begets another who is perfect, so whatever perfect is in relation to God, then the Son is also. Neither one is more perfect than the other. You can't compare the strength of a human father and human son because God is perfect and not growing or evolving stronger.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2011,15:19)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 27 2011,00:00)I believe He existed within the Father before He was begotten from the Father.Was he alive as the Son, the Word with the Father from eternity?WJKeith,I believe that His essence was eternally alive but He was not eternally begotten but He was begotten during…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 27 2011,14:40)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 27 2011,12:22)Mike,you said:Quote He is instead, like the others, a vice regent and servant OF his God.  Scripture bears this out.This is what I am talking about when I speak of those who push doctrines placing the only begotten God in the same pot as the others.  The only begotten G…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2011,15:15)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 26 2011,22:38)Keith and Mark,Read this and see:Quote The terms “unbegotten” and “begotten” are interchangeable with the terms Father and Son. This follows from the relation of a substantive to its adjective. In whatever sense a substantive is employed, in the same sense must th…[Read more]

Mike,I am not doing what Keith is doing. I am not saying that Jesus is the one true God, I am saying that Jesus is the one true God from the one true God. There is a difference.I do believe that we have hashed out John 1:1 and come to the conclusion that the 'the' should have been included in part b and that the 'a' is unnecessary in part c.…[Read more]

Hi William,I agree that He was baptized in order to be an example…also to fulfill prophecy.Good thread Wispring!

Irene,Were you aware that Justin the Martyr who lived lived between 110-165 AD, that wrote of the Christians not keeping the weekly sabbaths or the feasts? That was a long time before Constantine was born. There are Justin Martyr's writings on the internet. He has a long discourse with a Jew and talks to him about this. It is very interesting…[Read more]