Keith,I found what I was looking for regarding how each are referred as God yet there is one God. quote: Ver. 5. “For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, as there are gods many and lords many; yet to us there is one God, the Father, of Whom are all things, and we unto Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through Whom a…[Read more]

Keith,My son didn't become my son at the time he was begotten…he already was my son before he was begotten.  The Son of God was the Son before He was begotten…He always existed as the Son but didn't always exist before the ages as the begotten Son.  He wasn't begotten till “Let there be light.” That is my understanding.KathiI am editing this t…[Read more]

Hi Jack,Are you aware that I do not say “before He was begotten He was not” also?Correct me if I am wrong but you believe that:The Second Person was the Word within the mind of the First Person and became a Second Person.or,The Word is actually a person within the mind of the First Person, though a different person than the First Person.orThe Word…[Read more]

Mike,Quote So, from one word “theos”, and a scripture that clearly lists Jesus as a lessor god that was begotten and that people CAN see, you find some kind of “equality” between Jesus and his God? “Lessor” is not at all clearly listed in John 1:18. Is your son lessor human than you because he was begotten. The Father is greater by the fact…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 29 2011,12:09)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2011,09:19)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2011,16:55)Keith,Also, Jack believes that the Son had a beginning because there was a time when He was not the Son.  I think he believes that the Word didn't have a beginning, but as the Son, the Son had a beginning.  From what I c…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2011,12:11)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2011,19:59)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 28 2011,17:43)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2011,16:49)You take that true relationship away and you have not a literal son but a figurative son.  I believe the true relationship of Father/Son is monumental and a central teaching of the…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2011,13:30)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2011,16:08)Keith,Do you think that God, the unbegotten is the same one as God, the begotten?  If not, then you have two.  The oneness is in their essence and how they act as one mind.Hi KathiThat is not at all what your source is saying is it?The Father, Son and Holy Spirit a…[Read more]

Hi Karamarie,It is clear that JA misunderstood what I said and is interested in debating the matter. Presently I have too much going on with the members here to take him on also. Please understand. I answered his questions but I am not interested in debating him at this time. Maybe someone else is interested.Thanks,Kathi

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 29 2011,21:37)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2011,11:23)God did not bring birth to an angel that became a man and ceased to be an angel for awhile and then ceased to be a man to become an angel again who is “a little god” that we serve and bow down too that we call our god but he is not the “True god” because we only…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 29 2011,11:53)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 29 2011,08:55)Keith,Also, Jack believes that the Son had a beginning because there was a time when He was not the Son.  I think he believes that the Word didn't have a beginning, but as the Son, the Son had a beginning.  From what I can tell anyway.  You do have different Je…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2011,10:55)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2011,18:20)Yes Keith, I disagree with that.  It was the power that is linked to the resurrection, not the Sonship.Also, I disagree…and so do other church fathers, btw, about those who believe that the Son did not become the Son till after creation, so do the main Christian…[Read more]

Hi Keith,Do you believe that the sonship is just an 'office' given to the 'Word?' Or do you believe it is a relationship that the Father/Son have before the ages. If the 'Word' being a Son is just an office then it would seem that the 'first person of the trinity' is only holding an office as Father and not a literal Father in regards to the…[Read more]

Hi Mike,(This post is in reference to Mike's last post here.)Quote Why?  Do you have the Greek mss of those writings?  Would we be able to see when they say “Jesus is god” that it wasn't a case where the indefinite article should be added?  If not, then why bother?  Because we would only be reading Trinitarian ENGLISH translators words.  What woul…[Read more]

Hi Karmarie,Well, I don't know who he is 'just asking' but I will put down my answers.Quote “if Jesus is ETERNALLY GOD, then what was he when he EMPTIED HIMSELFand came as MAN?”Well, He emptied Himself of His riches in heaven and became poor. He emptied Himself of His recognition due Him as the Begotten God. He emptied Himself of His…[Read more]

Mike,Maybe we should have a thread in the 'other writings' section about the ante-nicene church fathers understanding of John 1:1. How about it?Quote Anyway, assuming it is anarthrous, what does it mean? I think all of us except for Keith will agree that an anarthrous theos in 1:1c does not mean the Word was THE God he was with. I know that you…[Read more]

Good Mike

Hi Mike,The 'perfect' in Heb 8:5 means:to bring to an end, to complete, perfect.A good translation to help clarify this says:GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)After he had finished his work, he became the source of eternal salvation for everyone who obeys him.Can you see that? It is not about his nature. The same Greek word is in Hebrews 7…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 28 2011,19:35)Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 28 2011,14:17)I know also that MANY trinitarians are leaving the idea that Christ was Son before His incarnation because it doesn't make any sense.Hopefully, they will continue this trend and leave the trinity doctrine altogether, for not one bit of it makes any sense.…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 28 2011,17:43)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2011,16:49)You take that true relationship away and you have not a literal son but a figurative son.  I believe the true relationship of Father/Son is monumental and a central teaching of the gospels.Hi KathiSo what you are saying is unless one is “a literal son” then one can…[Read more]

Keith,You said:Quote This is where I have a problem with your theology. You are implying that Jesus “became” fully God when he came into existence as the Son.I am not saying that He came into existence as a Son, the Father always, always, always contained the essence of the Son, at one point before creation, that essence of the Son was born. He…[Read more]