Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,03:03)Kathi,I, too, am completely confused as to what you are saying…In any case, God SENDS his Spirits as Angels to do his will (God makes his Angels Spirits)God makes his Ministers Flames of Fire (These are Humans called Prophets – not to be confused with the Angel AS flames in a bush)Can we move from Jacob to…[Read more]

Pierre,This should help you. Read the commentary on Hosea 12:http://gill.biblecommenter.com/hosea/12.htmKathi

Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,21:25)Kathi,Remember that when Jesus was on earth he was EXACTLY man – but sinless.Jesus said that ALL THE THINGS HE DID Others could do – IF THEY HAD FAITH – Jesus didn't do anything that another of Mankind couldn't have done.When the Jews accused him of blasphemy for forgiving Sin (Leading to false belief that he is…[Read more]

Pierre,Yes it's there, I even made it bold for you. I didn't write the scripture. Observe without a bias and you might see it. Kathi

Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,21:13)Kathi,Yes, I thought that verse would be what you would post…This is what I am trying to show across the forum: The verse refers to the RISEN CHRIST – for God gave him the POWER AND AUTHORITY to BE HIS Exact Radiance to uphold all things by it.Read the verses without PREJUDICE:God, after He spoke long ago to…[Read more]

Quote (seekingtruth @ April 22 2011,00:13)Kathi,I recant, I recant!… Well actually I missed editing the “not a separate being” out of this letter after Mike had pointed it out to me some time ago after I had briefly explored that line of thinking. I gave it a lot of consideration after Mike pointed it out and determined that my original line of…[Read more]

Good night Istari…there in the UK it is the middle of the night. Big yawn! Thanks for staying up and the 'sharpening' that went with it. I will try to answer the rest of your questions tonight.

Istari,I forgot to answer this part in that last post:Quote (2) All the other creatures in Heaven are ALSO SPIRITS – Who Begot them?The other creatures in heaven were not begotten, they were created from new substance…not eternal substance. The Father created them through the Son.Quote Was not the Creed force fitted and ratified by the Romans -…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,20:51)Kathi,you say “and then was begotten…possibly begotten by the Father's word, not necessarily through some labor and delivery process.”but earlier you said “I don't believe that God willed a Son into existence with His thoughts.”Word and thought are the same to God (God does not think what he does not say -…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,20:37)Kathi,What Scripture verse says that Jesus has the EXACT NATURE as his Father?An d what is “ETERNAL NATURE” (Eternal is a State – Nature is Feature/Characteristic. For instance: You can't 'SEE' that the Nature of that someone is ETERNAL)Istari,Heb 1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,20:30)Kathi,The Creed is MANMADE… And you know that it has been messed around with over time …How can they be “Co-Eternal” if one was “BEGOTTEN”.Kathi, explain to me what “BEGOTTEN” means in this context, to you.And explain how Jesus is “ETERNALLY BEGOTTEN” (What on earth or in Heaven does that means anyway…!)…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,20:01)kathi,I know people say “Mary gave birth to THE SON OF GOD” – is this a corruption of your idea or is your idea a corruption of their idea?Sonship in Spiritual terms is nothing to do with PROCREATION – because Spirits do not Procreate.Spirits CREATE – but do not PROCREATE – so Sonship is not about a personal…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,19:56)Kathi,Even the Trinitarians (as exampled by WJ and Trinis are by far the largest group of “Eternal Son” believers) do not believe that Jesus was Begotten before time.Until i heard you saying what you are trying to say hear i'd never (thought provokingly) heard of this idea…Kathi, unless i have been placing my…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,16:28)Kathi,Thanks for the understanding and the re-direction.But frankly – No, it does not make any better sense seeing that “Biological Father” is a “Concept”. God would not need to Conceive in the “BODY” but only in Mind and thought (Shhh..Don't let Gene see this idea …)To soften the blow I think you can make a…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,17:01)Kathi,There seems to be a secondary “Poll” in this thread – and that is “hands up everyone who thinks Kathi should drop her idea of Jesus INSIDE GOD”?Kathi, you can still hold your idea – just not foist in on us for we cannot hold it as any kind of truth or reality. You thought you had an idea – we all do – but…[Read more]

Pierre,If you look at the Hebrew you will see how v. 4 needs v.5 to follow it because it completes the thought of v. 4. Just read it how it is and know that the one who was wrestling with Jacob was identified as the Lord God Almighty. I will not go around and around with your switching around the verses because it doesn't fit your views.…[Read more]

Ok…seems like there is some anticipation here on the purpose of this poll.Well, I designed this poll mostly for Istari and my benefit because I was trying to communicate something to him that seemed obvious to me but he couldn't seem to see it. So, I think I have accomplished that somewhat anyway.The fact that I am leading to is that a man or…[Read more]

Pierre,What doesn't it say in those verses?Kathi

Pierre,If the Son was begotten before the ages and existed eternally within the Father before that, this poll helps people see how the Father was a 'Father' before He actually beget His Son. Sort of like a biological father is a father before the child is begotten according to human terms. People wonder how the Father could always have a Son and…[Read more]

Pierre,Then why are you asking me to explain to you?I am not saying that God is a man or that God is an angel. I am saying that the one that wrestled with Jacob was called Jehovah. Jehovah may have appeared as a man from heaven but He is not a man, of course, neither is He an angel being.Maybe you should ask God to explain what I am telling you…[Read more]