Pierre,Quote here you are taking the wrong conclusion; scriptures are saying that he the beginning of creation before all things and so be the very first created being that God created,right. now all other thing that God created came to be trough HIM and this is what Paul is saying when he says ;THE FIRSTBORN OVER ALL CREATION, you see Paul got…[Read more]

t8,Quote Even Jesus is a son of the Most High except that he is the only begotten and firstborn. A big exception there t8. A difference between deity and non deity.God is a 'Him' on one side of the equation but on the other side of the equation, the Father is a mighty God, the Son is a mighty God, and with their Spirit they make the Father the…[Read more]

Mike,I think that God was always able to save us because He has always been a Father with a Son and Spirit. Both the Father and the Son are each equally a mighty God and the Son is inseparable to His Father. You can't have one without the other. They are echad…a unity.

Well Rena,I have no reason to think the ancient Syriac documents that are posted here are inaccurate. My spirit bears witness to them or I wouldn't put them here.

Pierre,You assume that someone who was born started existing at the moment of birth but I don't know why you think that…even humans existed before they were born. I believe the Son always existed before He was begotten.Kathi

Mike,Quote So when Abraham spoke to the only true God, he spoke to the EXACT SAME GOD that Jesus spoke to…………for there is but ONE God.Actually Abraham was speaking face to face with Jehovah, the Son. The Father was never seen by man.There is but one Almighty God on one side of the equation which encompasses two mighty Gods and their…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ June 26 2011,01:10)Quote (Lightenup @ June 26 2011,23:50)Pierre,To understand the phrase 'firstborn over all creation' ask yourself who Jesus calls His 'Father.'  Jesus doesn't call creation His 'Father.'  He calls God His Father.  Therefore He is the Firstborn of God, note that He is not first created but He is firstborn.  G…[Read more]

Mike,Quote But GOD NEVER CHANGES.And that is why we should know that the Son always existed. There always was a Father, a Son, and their Holy Spirit.

Pierre,They each have a spirit.The spirit of the Father.The spirit of the Son.Their spirits are united as one spirit and it dwells within believers. That is my understanding.Good night Pierre,Kathi

Pierre,To understand the phrase 'firstborn over all creation' ask yourself who Jesus calls His 'Father.' Jesus doesn't call creation His 'Father.' He calls God His Father. Therefore He is the Firstborn of God, note that He is not first created but He is firstborn. God has given all things to Him, His Firstborn. Hence, He is called the…[Read more]

Pierre,From your post above:Quote so you can start from worshiping God the father only and place the son where his glory belong next to his father but little lower.I will worship the Almighty God, our Father who is the Father, with the Son and their Spirit.

Quote (t8 @ June 26 2011,00:13)Quote (Lightenup @ June 26 2011,12:57)David,This really isn't as complicated as you make it sound.  Peter really did believe that Jesus was His great God and Savior and that He was the Son of God…He distinguishes Jesus from His Father and thus shows that two distinct persons…the Father and the Son, are both…[Read more]

Pierre,No where does it say that God created His pre-existent Son. Any verse that you think implies that, has better translations than what you are looking at or your understanding is not correct. Until you see this you will remain in your error, imo.Love to you,Kathi

Mike,Quote Titus 2:13 might be calling Jesus “mighty god” and it might not be. If it is, then it is simply a fulfillment of Isaiah 9:6, and therefore not a trinity proof, right? If it is not calling Jesus “mighty god”, then it's still not a trinity proof, right?Calling Jesus 'mighty God' has meaning, it isn't just a name to say He was called…[Read more]

Pierre,Nice try but your analogy has to be about types of persons in relationship with others. Don't go off on some extreme tangent. Work with me Kathi

Mike,I am just showing you how a definition becomes an equation.Like, what is the definition of a parent, for instance…A parent is a person with an offspring, right?Well in an equation form we can write that like this:A parent = a person + his offspringNow, we understand that if we look at the left side of the equation, we see one person who is…[Read more]

Mike,If a man + his wife make up a married man, is the wife a married man? Is the wife married to herself?

Quote (t8 @ June 25 2011,05:24)That is a big assumption LU.If a person lays his life down for me so I can live, does that make that person God?If a person delivers me from slavery, does that make him God?If a person dies for my sins, as the sacrificial lamb required by the Law, does that make him God?It is a very human response to say, wow that is…[Read more]

Mike,Thanks, we had a nice time and I am glad to be back. We got home about 6:30 pm and a group of teens came by about 2 hours later…just dropped in I iike having that type of home. Also, my oldest son just got engaged this week to a wonderful girl and so I will have another daughter soon. We are excited for them!Anyway…The Father is…[Read more]

Mike,Everything I posted here shows two distinct persons, one is a Father and the other is a Son. No one is saying that Jesus is the Son of Himself. I don't know where you get these ideas.