Irene,Who does Jesus call His father…God, or all of creation? The answer will tell you what 'group' He is a part of. Also, can you show me any firstborn who begets his own brothers?To know what group a firstborn is a part of, ask the firstborn what group his father is a part of. If Jesus is a part of all creation, then so is his father. We…[Read more]

That is right Irene, Jesus is the only BEGOTTEN Son of God, not the only created son of God. Begotten is not 'created out of nothing.' If he were created, then he would not be begotten and have the nature of God with the eternal wisdom and power of God.Rev 3:14 says nothing about the Son being created.Prov 8:22 says nothing about the Son being…[Read more]

Mike,Where is the scripture that says David is the firstborn of all the kings?Who made David a firstborn…all the kings or God?Does that mean that David was not born until this verse and thus David came by God birthing him or by God designating Him an honor of being called His firstborn to show preeminence of all the kings on earth?This is what…[Read more]

Col 1:9 For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the…[Read more]

Eph 5:5For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.The kingdom is a compound unity which belongs to Christ AND God together. They own the kingdom of which believer's inherit. Believer's do not inherit the Father as someone said, but…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Sep. 04 2011,16:37)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 05 2011,06:06)Bumped to Paul's attention, since his sister Kathi is scared to comment on these scriptures because she KNOWS what they teach.Mike,Kathi ain't scared  of you or anyone. So stop being a child. Unlike you she has a life outside of HN. We are friends by email and I…[Read more]

Jack,Good post with a lot of examples.I have not studied enough to comment as to whether every use of 'kurios' means YHVH but I do see that it often seems to be.What about this passage, I see YHVH as saying something that Jesus has said about Himself being 'the resurrection and the life' and that no one can snatch us out of His hand.Deut…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 30 2011,09:51)Here is where anyone can post a verse or passage from the Bible, that demonstrates more than one person or thing acting and/or speaking as one.This is not a thread for discussion but to collect verses that show a plural subject, or compound subject, or more than one person as a group performing an action that…[Read more]

Thanks Paul! Glory to God, Paul's back

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 02 2011,21:21)Mike,I would like you to delete it please.  You are discussing a scripture already posted.  This is not a thread for discussions.Thanks.Just post a new scripture here Mike, no discussion on another that was posted. Please delete your post. Thanks, Kathi

Here is another compound unity, the temple in the city of Heaven is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. The two are one temple.Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb.Interesting how the believer's make up the body of Christ, the church and the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb make…[Read more]

Mike,I just showed you.John 8:24 That is why I told you that you will die in your sins, for unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.””I AM” needs to be on your list That is what you are asking for, one verse that shows His equality to God.Kathi

Mike,you asked me to prove this last sentence to be incorrect:Quote In no case does “firstborn” mean that the firstborn did not have a beginning, or that the firstborn is not included in the group of which he is firstborn.In no case does “firstborn” mean the one born began at the moment of birth.In no case does “firstborn” tell us about how lon…[Read more]

John 8:24 is mistranslated. Earlier manuscripts do not have the added words. You knew that probably though didn't you.John 8:24 That is why I told you that you will die in your sins, for unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.”You are interested in truth, right? Choose newer translations over the KJV when you see that they have…[Read more]

Mike,I don't have much time right now. Maybe Paul can address your points here.Kathi

t8,Who is saying that Jesus is the Lord of/over God? I am saying that Jesus is Jehovah with the Father not over the Father.God made the man part of Jesus many things, including Lord and Christ. The divine, pre-existing part of Jesus was Lord already. He was the creator with the Father after all.Also, we aren't saying that there is more than one…[Read more]

Ok Shimmer, you are welcome

Mike,I would like you to delete it please. You are discussing a scripture already posted. This is not a thread for discussions.Thanks.

Shimmer,God knows the answer to the question, you can be assured of that. In His time He will tell you if you seek to know and listen with an open heart. For me it gradually came within a few days and then more and more for a month for a significant part. After that, more and more understanding has come even 18 years later.Don't be…[Read more]

Shimmer,Ok, thanks for your honest reply.Now, since you are in a window of time where you are feeling that love…would you consider asking God to show you if His Son was created out of nothing or was He begotten from within Him before creation and see if He would be so gracious to show you this.In my opinion, God wants to reveal that truth. He…[Read more]