Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 18 2012,16:59)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 17 2012,22:41)Read this to help you know the answer.Exodus 13Consecration of the Firstborn………………So then, the actual ANSWER to my question is:Even though it is worded as “the firstborn of the flock”, for example, it doesn't refer to “the flock”, as a whole, being the FATHER…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 18 2012,18:00)Kathi,I don't know where you got lost on the Trinitarians' belief in ONE BEING of God, in THREE persons.They believe God is ONE BEING.  You believe we have TWO BEINGS, who are EACH “God Almighty”. Nor do I know why specifying this is necessary in the first place.You should be more interested in the fact that…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2012,19:16)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 16 2012,20:05)Mike,Please define 'beings' for me.KathiIn this context, an INDIVIDUAL entity, complete unto himself.Jesus is ONE of these.  His and our God is ANOTHER one.Mike,Based on your 'definition' then this comment of yours is an incorrect understanding of what trinitarians…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2012,17:40)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 16 2012,19:35)Ask yourself 'who is His Father' and that will help you see who He is the Firstborn of.Please don't pretend like this is so hard for you.Exodus 22:29You must give me the firstborn of your sons.Are we to assume that the father of these firstborn is “your sons”?  Or should…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2012,17:13)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 16 2012,19:09)Mike,Prov 8:22 is translated as 'possessed' and not created in most translations and is in reference to wisdom.Oh, have you changed your former belief that Proverbs 8 was about Jesus?Provebs 8:22 NET © The Lord created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 17 2012,09:06)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 17 2012,18:23)Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 16 2012,17:31)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 17 2012,16:19)Pierre,”Over all creation” is in scripture. You yourself quote it that way Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.There you go…bolded.Is Jesus YOUR god…[Read more]

Mike,Please define 'beings' for me.Kathi

Mike, Heb 1:1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.The creation belongs to the Son…the Son is the heir of all things and the world was actively made by/through the…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2012,17:51)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2012,11:37)Mike,I do admire how you can have so many conversations going on at one time and keep everyone's perspective straight, some of the time anyway.  In this case, you forget that I do agree that the Son of God was born first (and last for that matter).  So nothing I have s…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2012,17:44)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2012,18:31)Pierre,Sorry, those words aren't in those scriptures.KathiActually, they are Kathi.”created me as the first of His works””firstborn of every creature”  (who created every creature?)”beginning of the creation BY GOD”  (whose creation is Jesus the beginning of?)Mike,Prov 8…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 16 2012,17:31)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 17 2012,16:19)Pierre,”Over all creation” is in scripture. You yourself quote it that way Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.There you go…bolded.Is Jesus YOUR god Pierre?KathiKathiOver all of creation ,means what to you ?Firstborn ,means…[Read more]

Mike,Define 'beings' for me.Also, Mike there were two who were actively involved in creation. The Father and the Son together with their Holy Spirit. I know you have a hard time admitting that Jesus was actively involved in creation because it was made through Him. The verses that credit the Son as making all things use the active voice. He did…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 16 2012,11:54)Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,11:29)Wakeup,Welcome to HN!You are right in that God cannot die…that is one reason why He begat His Son who is God like the Father God and referred to as the begotten God.  Angels cannot die either. Christ was made lower than the angels so He could suffer death. He was…[Read more]

Pierre,”Over all creation” is in scripture. You yourself quote it that way Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.There you go…bolded.Is Jesus YOUR god Pierre?Kathi

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 15 2012,21:54)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 16 2012,13:16)Marty,We can see the deity nature in Christ by the miraculous works that He does, His character and the words that He speaks which come to fulfillment and His resurrection.  The disciples knew that Christ knew everything and had the power to do anything, i.e. walk on water,…[Read more]

Toby,The context of my statement was towards the original nature, not the born again status.I hope that clears that up for you. Man was not begotten of God in their original begettal. See?God bless,Kathi

Pierre,If they were in there, time would not make a difference If those words were in scriptures then you would be able to quote scripture that has those exact words and make them bold for us all to see but you can't do that. The scriptures will not change with time, Pierre, they are already written and they do not say what you claim. Sorry.Kathi

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2012,18:00)kathisorry to for not have seen clearly what you add written ,but it does not change the fact that Christ is the first of Gods creation ,but I do understand that you cannot see it or understand it or wanted to understand it ,so we will see if our teachings will pass the test of God through his judgement , and…[Read more]

Marty,We can see the deity nature in Christ by the miraculous works that He does, His character and the words that He speaks which come to fulfillment and His resurrection. The disciples knew that Christ knew everything and had the power to do anything, i.e. walk on water, calm the sea simply by commanding it, healing the blind and ill, forgiving…[Read more]

Pierre,Sorry, those words aren't in those scriptures.Kathi