Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2012,21:15)Kathi,By that logic, EVERYTHING IN EXISTENCE is a “part of God”.  All things came “out from thee”, despite your unsubstantiated wish that they didn't.I am a literal son who was begotten and born, and I'm ALSO a creation.  Why do you think this wouldn't also apply for Jesus?Kathi, Jesus was “brought forth i…[Read more]

Hi toby,Do you believe that Jesus pre-existed His birth in Mary? If so, what was His name before He came as a man through Mary? I believe that His name was Jehovah like His Father although He was not His Father…He was Jehovah, the Son.8But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER I…[Read more]

Mike,I will gladly let it go since your argument proves nothing. That Jehovah in the OT is sometimes the Son, sometimes the Father and at other times the unity of both. So, I will go study more about where Jehovah is the Son in the OT. I think that I made a thread for that but it is a database and not for discussion.Kathi

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2012,18:10)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 03 2012,21:40)Jesus called His Father the only true God and Jesus knows that He is a part of that only true God as God the Son.   In what scripture is it said that Jesus is a “part of the only true God”?  What scripture tells you that Jesus “knew this”?  It seems to me that Jesus kn…[Read more]

wakeup,The kjv was translated from manuscripts that were not the oldest manuscripts. The older ones are more reliable and have differences with the kjv..Kathi

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2011,13:00)Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,20:48)You ask me to show you where Jesus said “I am I AM” in the NT…where does the Father say this in the NT?No, I ask you to show ANYWHERE IN SCRIPTURE that Jesus utters the phrase, “I am I AM”.I can show you MANY times in scripture where Jehovah uttered that very phrase.…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 23 2011,06:49)Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 23 2011,20:48)Mike,I have shown you several times where scripture refers to the Son as Jehovah…the Son is the husband of Zion who is Jehovah.  Jacob wrestles with Jehovah face to face.  Abraham talks face to face with Jehovah who will judge the whole earth, Jehovah sent fire and b…[Read more]

Quote (toby @ Jan. 05 2012,03:37)Quote Jehovah our God is the unity of the God of gods (Jehovah,the Father) and the Lord of lords (Jehovah,the Son). Deut 10:17Worship the Father, the Son and their Holy Spirit as the fullness of Jehovah, who alone as a unity, was the creator of heaven and earth.Hi Lightenup.I was wondering, are you a Muslim?…[Read more]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 04 2012,09:34)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 04 2012,14:40)Marty,Why would you say that “only begotten God” is a bad translation?  The early church fathers often mentioned that God begat God and referred to the Father as the unbegotten God and the Son as the begotten God.  It was a common teaching. Jesus called His Father the only t…[Read more]

Marty,Why would you say that “only begotten God” is a bad translation? The early church fathers often mentioned that God begat God and referred to the Father as the unbegotten God and the Son as the begotten God. It was a common teaching. Jesus called His Father the only true God and Jesus knows that He is a part of that only true God as God the…[Read more]

Marti,I know that you see those verses and think that Jesus can't be God also. The reason that Jesus stresses that He is from God, the same God of the people of Israel, is to help them realize that He was not sent from a foreign god but has the full support of their God behind Him and that He is there because of their God, and that He, being the…[Read more]

But Marty, nothing that you wrote would challenge what I wrote.  I agree that the Father is and always will be the Son's Father and thus His God since He is deity and His Father.  If the Son did not acknowledge His Father as His God, then the Son would cease from being the perfect Son.  Also in the flesh, He was perfect as both the begotten God an…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2011,11:19)Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,20:04)Read the NET notes of that here:3 tn The genitive construction πάσης κτίσεως (pash” ktisew”) is a genitive of subordination and is therefore translated as “over all creation.” See ExSyn 103-4.Tell me how they/you KNOW this, Kathi?  For sure the word “pasa” is geni…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2011,11:22)Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 21 2011,21:35)Mike,Why do you forget that the Son emptied Himself of something.  If He emptied Himself of something, then He had less of the 'something' than He did before.And YOU forget that it was AFTER he died that he was exalted to an EVEN HIGHER position than the one he left.If,…[Read more]

Marti,Quote Many so called sticks, or a many membered body that can become one with God in the spirit, but One God, means “One God”.I do believe there are contexts that one God means one person, but I think there are other contexts that mean a unity of persons within one God in the fullest sense. I believe that the Father and Son together with…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 31 2011,20:53)Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 27 2011,15:14)Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2011,18:51)The following scripture states that there is but “One God”.1Ti 2:5 For one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; They are “one” in the spirit.John 17:21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, in me, and I in…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 31 2011,20:53)Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 27 2011,15:14)Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2011,18:51)The following scripture states that there is but “One God”.1Ti 2:5 For one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; They are “one” in the spirit.John 17:21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, in me, and I in…[Read more]

Marti and Gene,My point about the two sticks was that it showed how two things called the same thing could become one thing even the thing they are called when each were separate.  I know they are two nations that become one nation…that was not my point.One stick + One stick = One stickOne Jehovah, the Father + One Jehovah, the Son = One…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 30 2011,16:13)Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 31 2011,14:10)And so Pierre, do you also see that the husband of that spiritual Jerusalem who makes the barren woman full with children, is Jesus?Kathikathishow the scripture that give you that insidebecause i toutgh it was God,PierrePierre,You are the one that told me that Jesus was…[Read more]

And so Pierre, do you also see that the husband of that spiritual Jerusalem who makes the barren woman full with children, is Jesus?Kathi