The biblical use of the word “firstborn” can have different meanings. The first born child in a physical family is one of its meanings. This is exemplified in Luke 2:7:“And she gave birth to her son, the firstborn, and she bound him with cloth bands and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the lodging room.”Another meaning…[Read more]

Mike,you speak out of two sides of your mouth right here:Quote I couldn't care less about the word games associated with trying to make sense of the senseless trinity doctrine, so I'll walk away from that one. You are wrong, and I know what you're trying to do. Since YOU have come to the odd belief that we have Almighty Gods, instead of an…[Read more]

Mike,you said:Quote Well, MY son was that which did not exist………….AND…………..was begotten. It is only your WISHES that prohibit you from seeing this same thing with Jesus.If your son DID always exist and you were his father, then you would have had to always exist, right? Now since we understand the Father as always existing, and…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2012,19:08)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 20 2012,01:40)Mike,If it were worded “Give me the firstborn of the flock” that would mean every first offspring of every womb.That's correct, Kathi.  Which means that these firstborn are PART OF “the flock”, right?And it DOESN'T mean that these firstborn have “the flock” as their…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 18 2012,16:44)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 17 2012,22:06)The NET translators say that they 'argue' for the translation to be 'created' but I believe their argument is just an argument…their guess.Btw, nothing is said that create and given birth were synonyms except in your mind.Once again:the parallel ideas in these verses…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 18 2012,16:59)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 17 2012,22:41)Read this to help you know the answer.Exodus 13Consecration of the Firstborn………………So then, the actual ANSWER to my question is:Even though it is worded as “the firstborn of the flock”, for example, it doesn't refer to “the flock”, as a whole, being the FATHER…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 18 2012,18:00)Kathi,I don't know where you got lost on the Trinitarians' belief in ONE BEING of God, in THREE persons.They believe God is ONE BEING.  You believe we have TWO BEINGS, who are EACH “God Almighty”. Nor do I know why specifying this is necessary in the first place.You should be more interested in the fact that…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2012,19:16)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 16 2012,20:05)Mike,Please define 'beings' for me.KathiIn this context, an INDIVIDUAL entity, complete unto himself.Jesus is ONE of these.  His and our God is ANOTHER one.Mike,Based on your 'definition' then this comment of yours is an incorrect understanding of what trinitarians…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2012,17:40)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 16 2012,19:35)Ask yourself 'who is His Father' and that will help you see who He is the Firstborn of.Please don't pretend like this is so hard for you.Exodus 22:29You must give me the firstborn of your sons.Are we to assume that the father of these firstborn is “your sons”?  Or should…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2012,17:13)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 16 2012,19:09)Mike,Prov 8:22 is translated as 'possessed' and not created in most translations and is in reference to wisdom.Oh, have you changed your former belief that Proverbs 8 was about Jesus?Provebs 8:22 NET © The Lord created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 17 2012,09:06)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 17 2012,18:23)Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 16 2012,17:31)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 17 2012,16:19)Pierre,”Over all creation” is in scripture. You yourself quote it that way Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.There you go…bolded.Is Jesus YOUR god…[Read more]

Mike,Please define 'beings' for me.Kathi

Mike, Heb 1:1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.The creation belongs to the Son…the Son is the heir of all things and the world was actively made by/through the…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2012,17:51)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2012,11:37)Mike,I do admire how you can have so many conversations going on at one time and keep everyone's perspective straight, some of the time anyway.  In this case, you forget that I do agree that the Son of God was born first (and last for that matter).  So nothing I have s…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2012,17:44)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2012,18:31)Pierre,Sorry, those words aren't in those scriptures.KathiActually, they are Kathi.”created me as the first of His works””firstborn of every creature”  (who created every creature?)”beginning of the creation BY GOD”  (whose creation is Jesus the beginning of?)Mike,Prov 8…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 16 2012,17:31)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 17 2012,16:19)Pierre,”Over all creation” is in scripture. You yourself quote it that way Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.There you go…bolded.Is Jesus YOUR god Pierre?KathiKathiOver all of creation ,means what to you ?Firstborn ,means…[Read more]

Mike,Define 'beings' for me.Also, Mike there were two who were actively involved in creation. The Father and the Son together with their Holy Spirit. I know you have a hard time admitting that Jesus was actively involved in creation because it was made through Him. The verses that credit the Son as making all things use the active voice. He did…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 16 2012,11:54)Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,11:29)Wakeup,Welcome to HN!You are right in that God cannot die…that is one reason why He begat His Son who is God like the Father God and referred to as the begotten God.  Angels cannot die either. Christ was made lower than the angels so He could suffer death. He was…[Read more]

Pierre,”Over all creation” is in scripture. You yourself quote it that way Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.There you go…bolded.Is Jesus YOUR god Pierre?Kathi

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 15 2012,21:54)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 16 2012,13:16)Marty,We can see the deity nature in Christ by the miraculous works that He does, His character and the words that He speaks which come to fulfillment and His resurrection.  The disciples knew that Christ knew everything and had the power to do anything, i.e. walk on water,…[Read more]