Mike,Have I shown you historical writings where apostles in the first century claim that Jesus was the creator?

BD,Quote Hebrews 5:8Although Jesus was the Son of God, he learned to be obedient through his sufferings.Now, I will ask you does God Almighty need to learn to be obedient?If God Almighty willingly took on the nature which caused Him to feel hunger, exhaustion, uncomfortably hot or cold, then I believe that He would only be able to say that He…[Read more]

Hi Mike,you said:Quote I don't disagree with your analogy (except for them both creating us – for we have a Creator, not Creators). Would you agree that MANY scholars, and early church fathers, including Eusebius, believe that Jesus was the creator of all things in heaven and on earth based on what the Bible says?

Mike,If anyone was disgruntled on the plane, they must have somehow missed the fact that the head pilot sent the co-pilot out to the passengar cabin to put his life on the line in between the psycho hijacker and the passengers and masterfully overcame him in order to save them from the plane crashing into the trade center. I believe that if she…[Read more]

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 22 2012,15:40)Quote (Lightenup @ June 20 2012,11:24)Mike,I have never disagreed that the Father has authority over the Son. You have authority over your son, do you not? Does that make you unequal? You are both equally human even though there is a difference in position. The Father and Son are both equally god natured…[Read more]

It seems she is feeling a little better. I will keep praying for her.

Mike,Both, Jesus and the God of the OT are called:The First and the LastSaviorGod and LordLord of lordsBy both names, men are victorious in.Both are credited with creation.Both are credited with salvation.Both are over the church.Both are the temple in heaven.Both pour out their wrath on the day of the Lord.Both sit on the highest throne.Both have…[Read more]

Mike,Look what you said:Quote Your question, even if I was able to understand the wording, is off point. What exactly do you want to say here…my question is off point IF you were able to understand it? So does that mean you understand it or not? You can't really say that it is 'off point' if you can't understand it now, can you, because how…[Read more]

Mike,Do you see in the above post that the honor of being the 'First and the Last” is Jesus' honor? Do you also see that in the OT the one who is the First and the Last is the only God? I don't think that you can deny that, Mike. Jesus also has the honor of being the temple with the Father in Revelations. Jesus also has the honor of sitting on the…[Read more]

Mike,Quote (Oh, and seeing how the Lamb is someone OTHER THAN “God Almighty”, he is subsequently someone OTHER THAN the “one who created all things”.)I have always said that there are two persons involved. In THIS context of Rev 5, one is called God Almighty. This book of the Bible is not a revelation of the Father but of the other one who is the…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 19 2012,20:59)I'll wait for your response to my two points, Kathi.  We're getting off track with stuff we've already discussed MANY times before – stuff that you just claim, with no scriptural backing.For example, which scripture says the Son receives the “same honor” as his own God?  (And don't say John 5:23, for that m…[Read more]

Mike,Quote 1. But there is no denying that the passage I quoted lists the Father alone as “God Almighty”, and “our Lord and God” – because the Son is listed as someone completely different from the One who sits on the throne.There are two persons involved. This context is speaking to one as God Almighty and the other as the Lamb. The context is…[Read more]

Mike,Quote Many are “given praise, honor, glory and power”. God has the most of all of these things, His firstborn Son has the second highest amount, and so on down the line.The Son receives the SAME honor as the Father. The Son IS the power of God.

Mike,you said:Quote You've called them equally “God Almighty”.  If one is the head over the other, then they can't be equal.I have said that the Father is God Almighty because He is with the Son and their Spirit…in unity. His might is demonstrated through His Son's might and the power of THEIR Spirit. The Father, Son and their Spirit are in an…[Read more]

Mike,you said:Quote Could we say the four creatures are “in unity with” their God, also?  Do you, as a Christian, strive to be one with (in unity with) the Father and the Son?Using the phrase “in unity with” leaves many possibilities, so I won't deny that the Son works “in unity with” his Father and God.Every true believer that gives glory to God…[Read more]

Mike,I have never disagreed that the Father has authority over the Son. You have authority over your son, do you not? Does that make you unequal? You are both equally human even though there is a difference in position. The Father and Son are both equally god natured even though there is a difference in position which comes from their relationship…[Read more]

Mike,Can you agree to this statement:Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is the only begotten God, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of the only begotten God is God the Father.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 18 2012,19:45)Kathi,There are many points in my last post that I want you to directly address.  I'm in no rush, so whenever you get the time.  As to your point, Peter was/is also a head of the church, since Jesus appointed him as the one to “feed my sheep”.  So Peter is a head, Jesus is a head OVER Peter, and God is a he…[Read more]

Mike,You said:Quote Could we say the four creatures are “in unity with” with their God, also? Do you, as a Christian, strive to be one with (in unity with) the Father and the Son?Using the phrase “in unity with” leaves many possibilities, so I won't deny that the Son works “in unity with” his Father and God.But there is no denying that the…[Read more]

Hi Mike and BD,So sorry that I haven't been around much lately. I've been having too much fun enjoying the outdoors I think that the situation that you both are wrestling with is that you are comparing the creatures with the head of the creatures and not seeing that Jesus AND the Father are in the 'head of the creatures' group and Moses, the 'four…[Read more]