Search Members

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Where did the Cain and Abel thing come from?!?!? Talk about random!! By the way, we’ve been over this before; do you not remember?? I asked you what it meant and you couldn’t tell me! Such “strong” beliefs you have when you can’t support what you believe; we call that being gullible.

You understand Psalm 22 is poetry…right!! So the events spoken aren’t to be taken literal. The next verse says “I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me”, so David’s bones have eyes?!!?

You need to change your name to “I’ll Believe Anything.” What you believe is false, when will you open your eyes!

[DesireTruth]

@Danny,

You’ve mentioned I John 2:23 twice now, what is your point? We have truth because some NT writer said by denying the “son” one automatically denies the Father? Since the Jesus isn’t The Messiah (unless you can prove he is – beliefs don’t count, evidence does) and I turn my attention to G-d alone, what need do I have of the Jesus?

Why do you, or anyone, need a middleman to get to G-d? Does a child need a representative to get to their father or can they go directly to him? When a child does come to their father, doesn’t that father welcome and embrace that child? When did G-d ever say a middleman was required to find HIM; aren’t we children of G-d? Didn’t G-d spare Nineveh from destruction because the city cried out to HIM for forgiveness, no middleman involved at all. The city didn’t have to go thru Jonah to get to G-d, they cried out directly to G-d.

Where in the Tanakh does G-d say he was sending this mediator to act on your behalf to get to HIM? What you believe cannot be supported by the Tanakh, so why do you believe what you believe?

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING!!

Go ahead, explain what happened with David’s clothes when we shared them.

“When we shared them”, say what???

15 The roof of my mouth is as dry as a piece of pottery; my tongue sticks to my gums. You set me in the dust of death. 16 Yes, wild dogs surround me – a gang of evil men crowd around me; like a lion they pin my hands and feet. 17 I can count all my bones; my enemies are gloating over me in triumph. 18 They are dividing up my clothes among themselves; they are rolling dice for my garments.

Vs15 “my” = David; “You” = G-d; “me” = David
Vs16 “me” = David; “my” = David
Vs 17 “I” = David; “my” = David; “enemies” = enemies; “me” = David
Vs18 “they” = enemies; “my” = David; “themselves” = enemies; “they” = enemies

Nowhere do I see a reference to anyone other than David and the enemies that where surrounding him. Yet, by some magical reading of this passage you (christianity) have deduced the David event is a reference to the Jesus.

You are 100% correct, context IS everything and Psalm 22 is a Psalm by David and is David crying out to G-d because he feels alone and is surrounded by his enemies; but he knows G-d is there and will protect him. This is the general gist of the Psalm, prove this is messianic or prophetic. The best anyone can do is find a similarity AND THAT’S IT!

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Blah, blah, blah; the Psalm is about David NOT the Jesus. You believe a lie!

More Parachute theology, drop in on a passage that one thinks is about the Jesus because is sounds like the Jesus. Read the entire chapter and place that single verse into the context it was written and there will be no the Jesus. Besides, Ps 22 isn’t Messianic prophesy; it’s David crying out to the Lord for deliverance from his dangerous enemies, who have surrounded him and threaten his life. Confident that the Lord will intervene, he then vows to thank the Lord publicly for his help and anticipates a time when all people will recognize the Lord’s greatness and worship him.

Do people read anymore; is comprehension a thing of the past?!?!? CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING!!

[DesireTruth]

@Proclaimer,

although mōtāw is grammatically plural, it does not necessarily mean the servant literally died several deaths

You are assuming the servant is a singular individual. In that case of course one can only die a single physical death; however, this isn’t about an individual; it’s about a nation – Israel. You then bring in ancient texts, I’m reading the current texts and translating them from the Hebrew and the word is “deaths.” Are you implying the current Hebrew writing of today are wrong?

The word you gave בומתו put into a translator by itself doesn’t have a meaning, what’s the entire phrase?

 

In my statement of the Jesus being deceitful by speaking in parables so the people couldn’t repent, you reply:

No, its about not casting pearls before swine. If you do that, you put those people into judgment because they have been told a precious truth and then trample on it. It is wiser to not tell them such things, and to give them the basic gospel with the hope that they will be able to receive the deeper things of God.

What kind of nonsense is this!! Did you read Isa 6:9-10? If the Jesus was the true Messiah he would be speaking to turn the nation back to G-d, NOT hiding it from them! “My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes.” (Ezekiel 37:24). Besides, the Isaiah passage the Jesus quotes as a “fulfillment” was a commission for Isaiah NOT The Messiah and definitely NOT the Jesus. Does anyone study G-d’s words or verify what they have been told???!?!?

You then quote from the book of an unknown author, a book that should never have been allowed in the NT, a book filled with lies, the book of Hebrews. SIGH!!!

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Ps 22 is a Psalm by David, about David; how do you get the Jesus out of that? Oh vs16 of the king Jimmy sounds like the Jesus so it must be! More parachute theology…

“For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.”

What the Hebrew translated says, “For dogs have surrounded me; a congregation of evildoers has encircled me; like a lion, my hands and my feet.”

There is nothing about any hands being “pierced” in the original Hebrew. In fact, because of the odd structure of the Hebrew translation, words were inserted to make the sentence flow better grammatically. Why did king Jimmy, among others, add “pierced” while others say, “they are at…”, “they threaten…”, “they pin…”, “they maul…”? What happened to the “lion” in the king Jimmy (it’s in the Hebrew)? It would seem it was conveniently left out to make it sound like it was the wicked who did the “piercing.” When has anyone heard of a lion piecing anything, they shred their prey. More Jimmy mistranslations!

Zech 13:6?!?!? you better read this verse in context because the passage is about denying one is a prophet. Of course we have the king Jimmy mistranslation again, most translations speak of wounds between their hands (the chest), NOT in their hands. Does the christian really study the words of G-d or simply listen to what they have been told? Sounding more like a cult everyday.

THE ENTIRE BIBLE PROVES THAT JESUS ​​IS THE BIBLE’S MESSIAH.

Still waiting for the evidence. To make a blanket statement as this only proves you can’t! Then to quote Isa 53:5 without explanation again confirms you can’t prove the Jesus is the true Messiah. Who is the “he” or the “we”/the “him” or the “our” of this passages? Again, you will remain silent because you have no idea!

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW YOU FEEL TOWARD THE MESSIAH, CHRIST JESUS.

The Jesus would have to be The Messiah, which he isn’t. Funny statement though!

YES, BY REJECTING HIM YOU ARE FULFILLING THE PROPHECY OF ISAIAH.

I can’t be fulfilling what Isaiah said when the Jesus wasn’t despised or rejected by man, he had a HUGE following! So what exactly am I fulfilling when the chapter isn’t messianic? When will you stop with your parachute theology and read the context that passages are written in? Most of the time that is all one has to do to see the lies of christianity.

When are people going to begin verifying what they have been told is truth?!?

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Who is the “he”, who is the “our”?

If you can’t identify who these pronouns are, why do you believe what you believe?

Still waiting for how the Jesus fulfilled Isa 53 when he wasn’t “innocent”; he was violent, deceitful, was desired, and he wasn’t so hideous that people avoided him. I have given the passages proving the person described in Isa 53 COULD NOT be the Jesus; yet, you still cling to your idolatry (anything between you and G-d). Talk about stubborn!

Prove the Jesus IS The Messiah!!

[DesireTruth]

@Danny,

Not worried, the Jesus didn’t fulfill what was prophesied about The Messiah. Unless you can prove he did.

Did you read Amos 3:7? “Certainly the sovereign LORD does nothing without first revealing his plan to his servants the prophets.” Where is it prophesied in the Tanakh The Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind, be buried and raised up again, return to heaven for an unknown period of time, come back to judge the world, condemn those who don’t believe in him to an eternity of torture, reign for 1000 years for everything to go back to the way it was before his reign, and then conquer his nemesis, Satan. You find that in the Tanakh, then I’ll be worried about denying the Jesus.

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Talk about being “under the law”, isn’t observing the Sabbath part of the “law”? Why is observing a Jewish command so important to the SDA? Why does the SDA only seek to convert the christian and NOT the “unsaved”? Sound a little upside down and backwards.

The “command” was actually an example set by G-d to take a day and rest as HE did at creation. Religions gets in the way of what G-d actually said. Spend more time in what HE said and less in what the Greek Testament pretends what G-d said.

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Who is this “innocent” figure, this servant? Christianity says it’s the Jesus, but using the words of the NT we find the Jesus ISN’T all that “innocent.” Judaism says it Israel and what’s crazy is we are told who this “servant” is.

But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend. (Isa 41:8)

Remember these things, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are my servant; I formed you, you are my servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me. (Isa 44:21)

For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name, I surname you, though you do not know me. (Isa 45:4)

And He said to me, ‘You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified.’ (Isa 49:3)

You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. (Isa 43:10) who are the witnesses and G-d’s servant that HE has chosen?

“But now hear, O Jacob my servant, Israel whom I have chosen! (Isa 44:1)

Go out from Babylon, flee from Chaldea, declare this with a shout of joy, proclaim it, send it out to the end of the earth; say, “The Lord has redeemed his servant Jacob!” (Isa 48:20)

There are seven passages stating who the servant is (Jacob and Israel), but when christians get to chapter 53 it suddenly changes to the Jesus?!?! Please explain!

You say Israel isn’t innocent; they obviously were guilty of something as they were in exile; HOWEVER, what is this section speaking of; a guilty Israelite nation needing a human sacrifice or a nation innocent of the abuse they received while in exile? For the christian, the Jewish people aren’t “innocent” and because of their sin, need this human sacrifice. A sacrificial type G-d calls an abomination – when did G-d change?!? A sacrifice that extends beyond the nation of Israel to now include the none Jew according to the NT. One really needs to read all this in the context it was written, the innocence spoken of is from the abuses the Israel received while in exile; they were treated as nothing (disfigured and marred) and then these nations have their eye opened and now they understand what they did was wrong (52:14,15).

Context is important and one must verify everything. Still waiting for you to prove me wrong!

[DesireTruth]

@Danny,

Of course it’s simple for the christian, they have found a passage that sounds like the Jesus and therefore is the Jesus. If you would have been following what I have been writing from the beginning, you would have found it impossible for this to be about the Jesus. I gave examples from the NT showing how he was violent, was deceptive, was highly desired, and wasn’t “ugly” and therefor doesn’t fit the description of what Isaiah writes about the servant and that’s ignoring the fact the servant has already been identified from the previous chapters.

Your belief this “servant was suffering and dying on behalf of Israel’s sin” is patently false. There is no one who can take on the sins of another, Moses tried and G-d said no. What G-d dis say was the individual is responsible for their own sin and once you acknowledge this, as a christian, it become impossible to remain in the faith. Your belief, the christian belief, is an affront to G-d. The innocent CANNOT take on the judgment of the wicked…PERIOD!!

Amos 3:7 “For the Lord God will not do anything in the world, unless He first revealed His secret to His servants, the prophets.” The words of this prophet destroy the foundation of christianity, because nowhere in the Tanakh does it say G-d was sending a man to die for the sins of man, become a human sacrifice, and be raised from the dead.

No matter how much you “believe” the Jesus fulfills Isa 53, still waiting for vs10 to be explained; the Jesus NEVER fulfilled this passage as he died young and had no biological children.

Now what? Do you double down on what you believe or do you verify it? I chose the path of verification.

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

If the expression “his death” was in the plural, the expression “his grave” would ALSO be in the plural.

How many “graves” can one person be buried in? Why are you shooting the messenger, I’m reading the original text!! The text your OT is based upon! Jump back to 43:10 “Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.” Is G-d using a plural form of witnesses when referring to the singular servant? Also, has one forgotten, THIS IS POETRY and G-d refers to the nation of Israel in the singular many time throughout the Tanakh. So the grave would be for the individual and the deaths are for the many who were killed because of the brutality of the nations while the Israelite’s were in exile…Isaiah was writing while Israel was in exile because of THEIR SIN AND REBELLION AGAINST G-D!!! Have you read any other chapter in this book other than 53? How do you NOT understand this?!?!!?

Please read the above response to Danny and Proclaimer concerning Origen and the Jewish understanding in the third century of this “suffering servant.”

You still haven’t addressed the facts recorded in the NT of the Jesus being violent and deceitful! So he doesn’t fit this servant being described in 53. You still haven’t identified the pronouns throughout the chapter, who is speaking where; and until you do, you will be lost, dazed, and confused in your understanding of what is written.

Prove me wrong; still waiting!!!

[DesireTruth]

@Danny Dabbs,

@Proclaimer,

Does nobody read for comprehension anymore!?!? Is there anyone who will verify what I am saying?? What I am finding is why I walked away from christianity. I began asking questions I was apparently NOT suppose to be asking and at one point was told by a pastor I shouldn’t study so much and pray more. What was he afraid of, me discovering…THE TRUTH!

Isa 53:9 translated from the Hebrew (found on biblehub) when translated says “in his deaths”, I didn’t write this, Isaiah did! The christian interpreters mistranslated the Hebrew text. Even the NET bible admits this plurality seems to be out of place and attributes it as being a “mistake” and “fixes” it to the singular; BIG PROBLEM, the Hebrew text has it in the plural. Will you say that isn’t messing with G-d word?

You can site the JPS verbiage as being the same as the christian’s, but it’s still NOT the original text and it someone’s interpretation.

Isaiah 53 became extremely important to the christian world, just NOT in the first century; it became important later because it “sounded” like the Jesus. It makes one wonder if the story of the Jesus was written around this chapter; not once is Isaiah 53 cited in the gospels.

Interestingly recorded in Contra Celsum, Book I chapter 54, 55, a work by the Church Father Origen of Alexandria, written around 248 CE; chapter 54 has the passage from Isaiah 52:13-53:8 and 55 has the response of “certain Jews, who were reckoned wise men.” Their reply, “that these predictions bore reference to the whole people, regarded as one individual, and as being in a state of dispersion and suffering, in order that many proselytes might be gained, on account of the dispersion of the Jews among numerous heathen nations.” It would seem the third century Jew also believed Isaiah 53 was a reference to the nation as a whole.

Proclaimer, you go on to quote from Mark 4:11-12, except you left out verse 12 where the Jesus says he speaks in parables so the everyone other than the disciples would not perceive or understand and therefore not turn from their wicked ways and repent. How does the Jesus fulfill the last portion of 53:9 where there was “no deceit in his mouth”? I call that being deceitful, how about you?!? Let’s not forget the “violence” the Jesus did!

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

You keep wanting this to be about the Jesus and it simply isn’t so. The passage you question (vs9) is yet another mistranslation of the Hebrew. The Hebrew for “in his death” is בְּמוֹתוֹ and is the singular form. What is written is בְּמוֹתָיו (verify on biblehub) and is in the plural “in his deaths”, so the passage should read: “And they made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his deaths.” So for this to be applied to the Jesus, he would have to return and die at least one more time for this to be true.

Again, prove this wrong. Go to the Hebrew and look this up for yourself. You don’t have to know how to read Hebrew; if you can match characters, you can verify what I am saying.

You keep asking how certain passages apply to Israel and I keep telling you how they do, but you keep rejecting the truth when it’s presented. When are you going to answer the question of who is speaking where? This answer, will answer all your questions because it identifies the pronouns used throughout the chapter.

This isn’t that difficult! It’s written in black and white! Set aside your brainwashing and read the words that are there, it will change your world!

[DesireTruth]

@Danny Dobbs,

@Berean,

This is NOT difficult! I never said Israel was sinless and most certainly NOT blameless in their actions against G-d, this is the reason the Israelite’s are in exile!!! This is the reason G-d sent the prophets, to warn them of what was coming if they didn’t change and turn back to G-d. Are we reading from the same text?

I keep asking the same question and get zero responses from anyone; who is speaking where in 52:13 – 53:12? I even gave the answer and this is agreed upon from both those in Judaism and among christian scholars; yet, you all know more??!!??

52:13-15 – God describes the suffering and eventual restoration of the servant (Israel as established in previous chapters) and it shocks the nations.

53:1-3 – The nations restate what God said in 52:13-15.

53:4-9 – The nations give their explanation of why Israel suffered.

53:10-12 – God’s explains why Israel suffered and the reward when they turn back to HIM.

Since the nations are speaking in 53:1-9 the sin is from the nations being borne on the Jewish people (Israel and Jacob). So how does one get the Jesus out of this chapter is beyond me today! All one has to do is read, in the context, what is written. When one reads chapters 52,53,&54 together the picture that is painted is so much clearer than the mental gymnastic christianity has to perform to explain 53…which they really don’t. There is a suffering nation, a divine promise, and an ultimate redemption.

If I am wrong prove it!

[DesireTruth]

@Danny Dabbs,

I see you ran directly to accusations verses answering questions or proving your stance. Please tell me what my sin is and have need to cleanse myself for.

I stumbled across a verse (Amos 3:7) and have mentioned it a few time now and have been met with complete silence, it confirms the Jesus is NOT the true Messiah. According to this prophet, everything you believe about a suffering, dying, rising from the dead, atonement for sin, and returning at a later date messiah would have been revealed by the prophets. Please provide the passages that state this is what The Messiah is to do or be and I will provide you with the passages that refute this christian idea of who The Messiah will be and do.

[DesireTruth]

@Danny Dabbs,

It describes the servant as innocent.

Go back a few post where I showed how “innocent” the Jesus was; he was violent, deceitful, was desired, and he wasn’t so hideous that people avoided him. For most of it I gave NT passages showing who the Jesus really was. So your the Jesus doesn’t fit Isaiah 53 either.

The general christian fails to understand this chapter and relies solely on what they are told it means, I did because it sounded like the Jesus. To understand this chapter one must know who is speaking where and that’s the big hiccup for the christian. I have yet to have anyone here tell me who is speaking in 52:13-15; 53:1-4; 53:5-9; 53:10-12. None have explained why the servant suddenly becomes the Jesus when in the previous chapters the servant is call Israel and Jacob.

Maybe you can identify who the “our” is in vs1.

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

You were told it was a singular person; now prove it. I can prove the nation Israel was referred to the singular many times, so to say this passage specifically refers to a singular person (the Jesus) means nothing without evidence. To “believe”/“trust”/“have faith” that this passage is referring to the Jesus also means nothing, as anyone can “believe”/“trust”/“have faith” in anything they want but it doesn’t make it correct. Facts on the other hand are solid, concrete, and immovable; unless they can be proven wrong.

I just went over how the Jesus didn’t fit what was written as he was “violent”, he was “deceitful”, he was “desired”, and he wasn’t so hideous that people avoided him like a plague (how many thousands followed the Jesus?) and if he was so “ugly”, why is he pictured handsomely?

Now it’s your turn, what evidence do we have the Jesus fit the description in Isaiah 53!

You site vs5 and unfortunately it’s a mistranslation of the Hebrew and should read “But he was wounded FROM our transgressions, he was bruised FROM our iniquities.” (some Hebrew translations use “because”) This means Isaiah 53 is not talking about a man who died ‘for our sins,’ but rather it’s about a man who died ‘BECAUSE’ of or ‘AS A RESULT’ of our (the speaker’s) sins. Since the nations are the “our” in vs1, they also have to be the “our” of vs5…grammar has standard rules that must be followed no matter the language spoken.

If you disagree with this understanding, please provide who you think the “our” is and then back up your understanding.

Don’t forget to read Amos 3:7 and according to this prophet, everything you believe about a suffering, dying, rising from the dead, atonement for sin, and returning at a later date messiah would have been revealed by the prophets and there is NONE of this recorded by the prophets concerning the true Messiah.

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

If it’s about a person then you DON’T want it to be about the Jesus because he failed in every instance! You still haven’t proved 53 is speaking of the Jesus; where as I have gone thru the first part of the chapter compared it to the NT and have found fault after fault AND gave you sources for verification. Now who is being stubborn?!?

If what I said isn’t truth, prove it! I gave you passages from your bible showing the Jesus couldn’t possibly be who Isa 53 is speaking of and you reject the evidence in favor of what…lies?!?!?!

Why is it so difficult for the christian to explain why they believe, what they believe?

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

You really need to live up to your moniker “Berean”…remember they are the ones who verified everything.

Don’t thank me for filling in the blanks you were asked to fill in; that’s laziness on your part or the lack of understanding.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned everyone to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him (Israel) the iniquity of us all.

This cannot be the case, the Lord hath not laid on Israel the iniquity of us all.

Because it is a person and not a people.

This is christianities confusion, “us all” to the chrisitian is all of mankind throughout all history whose sins are heaped upon one man and that is not the case. Who then is the “us all”? This is why one must identify who is speaking throughout the chapter. In vs1 who is the “our” that is giving this report? This “our” is the “we” and “us” of vs6. You CANNOT ignore grammar! I have already told you it is the nations speaking and since it’s the nations speaking, it is they who harmed the servant and this was the nations’ sin the servant bore, the servant was NOT a substitute sacrifice as taught by christianity.

The christian interpretation makes no sense of it being the Jesus when the previous chapters identify the servant as being Israel and Jacob, IN THE SINGULAR! Explain the sudden shift!

 

his face was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men

he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

So these passages describe the servant as being either too ugly to be human in appearance, or too plain-looking to notice him. Yet, every picture of the Jesus is a handsome man and, as a carpenter, would have been muscular. In Luke is states “Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man.” Sounds like the Jesus wasn’t “ugly” and was desired.

 

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grievance: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

You claim the Jesus was despised and rejected, didn’t he have thousands of followers? What about when he road into Jerusalem on the donkey and all those who honored and praised him? When the religious leaders where going to arrest the Jesus, they feared the crowds that followed the Jesus. Or while he was carrying the cross “there followed him a great multitude of the people, and of women who bewailed and lamented him.” This doesn’t sound like one who was “despised and rejected” when he had a large crowd of people that followed him to his execution.

 

because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

I recall an incident at the Temple (recounted by both Matthew and John) where the Jesus fashioned a whip and chased the money changers and animals from the Temple, pouring out their money, and overturning their tables. The Isaiah passage explicitly states “NO VIOLENCE” and we have how many acts of violence committed at a single moment? What about the fig tree that was out of season he cursed because it didn’t have fruit on it? Didn’t the Jesus tell his disciples to buy swords? The Jesus even admits he didn’t come for peace, “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword”, sounds a little violent to me. What about the Ten Minas parable where at the end the “king” (aka the Jesus) says, “as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be their king, bring them here and slaughter them in front of me!” ARE YOU KIDDING, the Jesus was found without violence?!?!?!

Looking at the next phrase, there wasn’t any deceit in his mouth; except wasn’t it the Jesus who said to turn the other cheek? Yet, when he was struck at the Temple he challenges why he was struck if what he said was truth (John 18:22-23). The Jesus also said those who gave up everything to follow him would receive a hundred fold back in their time (Mark 10:30)…did they? The Jesus also told his disciples that there where some who where with him that would NOT taste death AND see his return (Matt 16:28). The Jesus tells his disciples they would witness all these event described in Matt 24:34 Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32 and would see the Jesus’ return. They did not! In Mark 4:11-12 the Jesus states he speaks in parables so those hearing won’t repent and be forgiven. Your “savior” wasn’t deceitful?!?!

 

Using the words from your own bible proves the Jesus CANNOT be the servant spoken about in Isaiah 53.

[Author]

Posts