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[DesireTruth]

They do not understand the meaning of the end-times prophecy, particularly Daniel 2 and 7

Do you? They are speaking of the same thing; christianity has twisted the end of chapter 7 to fit a “returning the Jesus” narrative. Concerning Revelation, still waiting for an explanation of what it means for something to happen “soon” as the Jesus states in chapter one and twenty-two. Revelation already happened! Or explain chapter 11 where John is measuring the Temple and excluding the gentile court.

Therefore, they follow false prophets who tell them things that lead them astray from what God wants them to know for their salvation.

A little ironic saying that when you follow the words and writings of Ellen White, treating them as if they are scripture; even though most of what she said never happened or will ever happen (Deut 18:21-22).

Verify everything! IS IT TRUTH?!?! If not, RUN FROM IT! It’s NOT from G-d!

As far as Trump being chosen by G-d; last I checked G-d wasn’t running the voting machines…man chose Trump.

[DesireTruth]

@Lightenup,

Your believing Noah “lashed” out after getting drunk is only a belief, it can’t be supported scripturally; but rather it would seem is a teaching of a religion and their condemnation of alcohol. Noah got drunk, did something stupid, past out, and when he woke was angry and lashed out – see how bad drinking alcohol is.

You say “all the immorality (voyeurism, sodomy, incest, castration, homosexuality) is not supported by the Hebrew”; have you looked at what Judaism believes happened in this passage? This is exactly what they believe happened (link) and they are 100% sure as this link gives six different possibilities. Why, because there isn’t enough information given.

One has to explain verse 24 “Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his youngest son had done to him.” There was something done to Noah by his son that caused him to curse Canaan. You are correct about sons not necessarily being listed in birth order; many times they are listed in the order of “importance” and in the case of Canaan he is listed last in the next chapter which could possibly signify he was considered least of the sons of Ham, but was most likely the first born as he is mentioned as the son of Ham twice (vs. 18 & 22) before we get the genealogy accounts of Noah’s sons in the next chapter.

HOWEVER, anything we come up with is still only speculation because we don’t get an account of what actually occurred that day.

It would seem the only point in knowing what happened is centered on alcohol and how bad it is for one to consume. Alcohol is a HUGE religious sticky point in many faiths and abstaining from it is the only course anyone who calls themselves “christian” MUST do, without exception. Which is funny, even the Jesus drank wine (Matt 11:19, Luke 7:34) and no, one does NOT drink watered down wine, it’s not very good. The Jesus goes to a wedding where they run out of wine and, as the teaching goes, the good wine is served first and as people ‘get drunk’, the lower quality wine is then served. The issue is they ran out of all of it and enter in the Jesus (how lucky for them), he gets some jugs of water and turns them into wine; not just any wine, but the best wine they have ever tasted.

When a religion gets on the ‘no drinking bandwagon’ it is done for control; drinking in moderation is never condemned in the Tanakh, drinking in excess or when making decisions is because doing so will effect one’s abilities and their mind.

[DesireTruth]

@Lightenup,

For Ham to see his father naked but his child is the one who is cursed seems over the top, which is why I say Ham did something bad to his father; so bad that Noah would curse his son and why the fourth son and not his eldest. Ham did something to Noah and this is what we don’t get in this passage; we never learn what happened and this is where speculation comes in.

Let’s have some hypothetical fun. We don’t get the time of day Noah got drunk and passed out; if it was at night, why didn’t his wife cover him; which leads me to speculate he got drunk during the day while his wife was out doing “wifely” things when Ham walked into the tent discovering Noah in his birthday suit.

Verse 24 says, “Noah awoke from his wine, and he knew/realized what his small son had done to him.” So what did Ham do? In the christian world I was taught Ham, by seeing his father naked and telling his brothers about it, was disrespectful and is why the harsh punishment on Canaan. A narrative that doesn’t make sense today; why was the punishment put on Canaan and not Ham? After all, Ham is focus in the text, not his son.

Backing up to verse 22, “And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father’s nakedness, and he told his two brothers outside.” The phrase “saw his father’s nakedness” occur one other time in the Tanakh (Lev 20:17) “If a man has sexual intercourse with his sister, whether the daughter of his father or his mother, so that he sees her nakedness and she sees his nakedness, it is a disgrace”; now some real speculation occurs to what may have happened in that tent. Did Ham sodomize his father!?!?!? HOWEVER, that still doesn’t explain the cursing of Ham’s fourth son.

Entertaining another speculation, did Ham castrate his father while passed out? G-d told them when they left the ark to populate the earth; this wasn’t directed at just the sons, but of everyone and would also include Noah and his wife. IF Ham had castrated his father, then Noah couldn’t do as G-d commanded and repopulate the world; so Noah couldn’t have a fourth son. Is this why Noah cursed Ham’s fourth son?

Reading Leviticus 18, G-d gives the laws concerning sexual relations as the Israelite’s are getting ready to take possession of the “Promised Land” – the area Ham’s fourth son settled, the land of Canaan. Reading this chapter, the people of this land performed these “abominable” acts G-d said not to do.

Is it possible Ham both sodomized and castrated his father? Is it possible Canaan was also involved and is why he is the target of Noah’s curse? Is it a situation of the apple not falling far from the tree, “like father, like son”?

Again, having a little fun with hypotheticals, in a weird way. We are never given what actually happened and does knowing what happened effect anything and will it really matter if we knew (other than satisfying curiosity)?

[DesireTruth]

@Lightenup,

I think the more important question is what did Ham do to Noah that he would curse Canaan (What land did the Israelite’s take possession of…hmm – coincidence). To be cursed because Ham saw his father naked doesn’t make sense as it doesn’t fit the punishment; besides, how would Noah have known he saw him naked? He was covered when he woke. So what did Noah realize when he woke? What did Ham do to him while he was pasted out? This is never revealed in the Tanakh; all we’re left with is speculation and is it really that important to know?

One of those hidden mysteries.

[DesireTruth]

Easter day, or if you’re a super christian “resurrection day”, has come and gone and as I ponder the day it occurred to me; what is celebrated and what does one worship on this day? Coming from over 40 years inside the “church”, do christians follow G-d’s command of worshiping HIM alone or have they included other “things” in their “worship”? Exd 20:3 G-d explicitly states, “You shall have no other gods before me” in Matt 4:10 and Luke 4:8 the Jesus states, “You are to worship the Lord your God and serve only him”; the christian defines “gods” as anything that takes the place of or takes precedence over G-d.

Looking at what Easter represents to the christian, I have to wonder what and who are being worshiped. Is it G-d alone or are there “things” standing between man and G-d? One of the largest objects worshiped by the christian is the cross, that “old rugged cross” the christian clings to, as the song goes. The object the hangs in virtually all christian homes, stuck to cars, hanging from their necks, and in and on their places of worship. I was involved in the design and construction of a park like setting where people could go sit at the foot of crosses erected on a former church property and every Easter morning the church would have a “sunrise service” before these crosses. The christian church worships the cross, but disguises their worship as “remembrance.”

Of course the primary object of worship, the Jesus; the one who comes before and has taken the place of G-d. Who does the christian pray to, sing praises to, and who does the christian serve? A former church member once said it so eloquently one day, “it’s about Jesus, Jesus, Jesus; all day Jesus.” Where is G-d in that phrase? G-d has been placed in the proverbial back seat and has been replaced. It would seem the christian no longer fears G-d because they have the Jesus who takes away their sin and works as their “mediator” on their behalf before G-d; what need is there for G-d when they have the Jesus? Another deception within christianity is the belief the Jesus is G-d, G-d in the flesh, or G-d come to Earth.

G-d is the only one to be worshiped and anything between you and HIM is idolatry. When will the christian wake up, verify the words they are told, and begin studying G-d’s words.

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

You do realize this is suppose to be a world wide happening…right???!?! The world is suppose to fall under the beast and NOT a single nation. Your fake prophetess said the same thing 150 years ago and guess what, NOTHING!! Didn’t she also predict the coming of the Jesus twice? Additionally, every link sited is about year or two old; and we’re still waiting for your “prophecy” to occur. Give it a rest already!

Deut 18:21-22 …‘How can we tell that a message is not from the LORD?’ 22. Whenever a prophet speaks in my name and the prediction is not fulfilled, then I have not spoken it; the prophet has presumed to speak it, so you need not fear him.”

Verify what you believe is truth; the book of Revelation already happened.

[DesireTruth]

The Jesus is called the “Passover Lamb” (I Cor 5:7) and is linked back to the original Passover when G-d freed the people of Israel from slavery in Egypt; somehow the Jesus becomes this lamb and sacrifices himself for the sins of the world. It is also taught this “sacrifice” was “salvation thru substitution.” That this event was somehow looking forward to the time of the Jesus. Please explain why the people of Israel would be looking forward 1400 years into the future for a “redeeming savior that would save them from ‘sin’” when G-d was delivering them from slavery in the present? It would seem the Jesus scenario was fashioned around this event, not that the event pointed to the Jesus; like many of the quotes from the Tanakh in the NT that are said to be about the Jesus when they aren’t.

What was the Passover? In general it’s the freeing of Israel from slavery, we all know the story. The Passover was more than just them begin set free, the people experienced first hand the power of G-d. They were a people that had been enslaved for the last 400 years and while I am sure they “knew” their heritage, but did they really “know” where they came from or who G-d really was? G-d was going to show Israel who HE is, so they would “know” who HE is. Additionally, G-d was showing them who they need to put their trust in.

Enter in the last plague, the death of the first born male, both man and animal. We find this account in Exd 12 where G-d says to take a perfect yearling lamb OR GOAT, bring it into their home days prior to the event (remember not house trained animals…think about it), care for it, and then as a community they were to kill it, place blood on their door frame, skin the animal leaving the head, legs, and entrails intact, cook it thoroughly, eat it until full, and then burn the rest before dawn. Explain how this process was to point to the Jesus when this event really was to see if the people would follow G-d’s instructions and trust they would be spared when the angel passed by.

The only reaching similarity is the “blood”; however, the blood only protected the first born. As christianity teaches, the “blood of the Jesus covers you so the wrath of G-d will pass by…passover…because of your sin” is false! The placing blood on the door frame and the angel passing over had nothing to with atoning the people of any sins nor was the death of the animal a substitution on behalf of the people’s sins. The people where told to eat what they killed, the meal they prepared was to be done quickly, and to be eaten in haste for the purpose of leaving in a moments notice.

Once again christianity twisting G-d’s word to fit the christian agenda.

[DesireTruth]

It’s that time of the year again where the christian world celebrates the human sacrifice of a man whose death was to be the propitiation for all mankind and, in the biblical sense, refers to, “a sacrifice that appeases G-d’s wrath and reconciles sinners to Him. Signifying how the Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross serves to remove G-d’s anger towards sin, allowing for forgiveness and blessing for believers.”

WOW!! Because when G-d said to repent, turn from your wickedness, and then HE would remember it no more wasn’t good enough; HIS original plan wasn’t good enough so HE needed blood of a human to appease HIS anger.

Even Paul claims in Rom 3:25, “God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished.” Paul is stating G-d approves human sacrifice and long as it comes from HIM and HE left “unpunished” the sins of the past!?!?? Think one forgot what was written in the Tanakh or the exile he was living in. The biggest lie of Paul’s is he teaches G-d demands perfection of his creation and because you aren’t perfect, G-d has no love for you except thru/by the blood of the Jesus. Instead of listening to Paul, one should put the NT down and start reading the Tanakh and you will see HIS love for HIS creation and the mercy HE freely gave.

Why would G-d approve this human sacrifice of the Jesus when HE call it an abomination when speaking with the Israelite’s? Does G-d have a double standard?

Now, if you believe the Jesus has always been with G-d from the beginning in heaven, what “sacrifice” does the Jesus really make coming here to earth for 33 years and then returning to the same place from which he came? You have been duped. Read the Tanakh and find out what G-d really desires and stop following false gods and false religions. Verify everything!

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

What of the following did Jesus fulfill? To claim this will happen when the Jesus returns, please tell me where G-d said the messiah was to come twice. Even the Jesus doesn’t say he’ll do any of this! When he comes back, he’s going to judge the world NOT unite it under G-d.

The Messiah must be Jewish 
“…you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you.” (Deuteronomy 17:15)

According to the NT Mary was Jewish, so by default so was the Jesus (read Ezra 9-10).

He must be a member of the tribe of Judah
“The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet…” (Genesis 49:10)

To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah. Who’s the Jesus’ daddy?

He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son
“And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever…” (2 Samuel 7:12 – 13)

The genealogy of Joseph states he is not the biological father of the Jesus. The other genealogy is through Nathan and not Solomon.

He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel 
“And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” (Isaiah 11:12)

Are all Jews living in Israel? Have all Jews EVER lived in Israel since the time of the Jesus? What does christianity teach, that failure to believe in the Jesus condemns you to hell.

He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem 
“…and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them..” (Ezekiel 37:26 – 27)

At last check, there is NO Temple in Jerusalem. And worse, it was shortly after the Jesus died that the Temple was destroyed! Just the opposite of this prophecy!

He will rule at a time of world-wide peace 
“…they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.” (Micah 4:3)

Are we living in a state of complete world peace? Has there ever been peace since the time of Jesus?

 He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d’s commandments

“My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes.” (Ezekiel 37:24)

The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy (remember there are 613 commands, not only ten).

He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d 
“And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd” (Isaiah 66:23)

There are still millions if not billions of people in the world today who adhere to paganistic and polytheistic religions. It is clear that we have not yet seen this period of human history unfold. In christianity it is taught there is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; believe in the trinity or not, you believe in the trinity AND are polytheistic.

You also quote Zech 9:9, which I agree is a Messianic prophecy; HOWEVER, did you read the next verse? Verse 10 “He shall banish chariots from Ephraim and horses from Jerusalem; the warrior’s bow shall be banished. He shall call on the nations to surrender, and his rule shall extend from sea to sea and from ocean to land’s end.” What in this passage did the Jesus accomplish? When did he banish chariots and horses and the bow? When did the Jesus call on the nations to surrender and when did he rule from the sea to lands end? In short, the Jesus NEVER did any of this let alone rule as king in Israel.

The Jesus is NOT the true Messiah as he doesn’t align with what G-d said in the Tanakh. Celebrating Easter is idolatry as it places something between you and G-d. Reject idolatry and return to G-d and find true peace.

Still waiting for why the SDA faith is superior to all others or why you listen to a false prophet.

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

The question has never been whether G-d established a day of rest at creation, it is when. What day did G-d start creation so we know what day was the last? We use a calendar today to count time; there was day and night at creation. I’ll ask again to whom were the “10 Commands” given at Mt. Sinai, Israel or the world?

In NOTHING you copied and paste from Andy Roman do you explain why the SDA faith is superior to all others because you worship on Saturday vs Sunday. Or how the SDA faith is the “remnant church” and the “chosen ambassador” for G-d in the end times. Or why the SDA doesn’t care about the “unbeliever” as much as they do in “CONverting” other christian faiths. These are the questions I want answered; I want scriptural proof the SDA is “the true faith” and all others are false. Explain how you can believe the prayers of other faiths never make it to the ears of G-d because they don’t worship on Saturday (an Ellen White quote). If you don’t believe this, how do you still follow the person who said it? Wouldn’t following and support someone who said this, is to follow a liar?

Again, as I have asked this before, what is the “moral law”; can you list all the commands G-d gave Israel that are considered the “moral law”? If you only have the “ten”, then you haven’t read any of the 613 commands given. These 613 commands were summed up by the Jesus “to love G-d and love others” and the religious leaders he was speaking with agreed with him; because these commands outline how they were to worship G-d and treat/interact with each other.

Take Lev 19:32 “You shall stand up before the gray head and honor the face of an old man, and you shall fear your God: I am the Lord.” Is this bad, do I NOT follow this command? Would you agree it sounds like a good “moral” thing to do or should I follow the words of Paul who says the law was to “point out sin”? We’ve been over this already and you have never explained your position.

When will you verify anything you have been told or are you the sheep of man (in your case a woman), following what they tell you is truth?

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

I think I have finally figured out your religious beliefs; you believe you are “the remnant Church of end-time Bible prophecy” and believe you have a “special role as ambassadors of God’s kingdom and messengers of the soon return of Jesus Christ.” The religion has been “enlisted as co-workers with God in His mission of reclaiming the world from the power and presence of evil.” Thus, you believe you are more special than even other christian faith.

The reason you believe this “special” status has to do with the observance of the “10 Commandments” (to whom where they given, the world or to Israel at Mt. Sinai?). You believe those “who will make up this end-time remnant are those ‘who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.’” In the end it’s these commands that are the focal point of the SDA faith and those who aren’t following all of them will NOT be part of this “remnant” that will enter G-d’s kingdom. The ONE command that stand above all others is the fourth and what I find interesting/insulting is your religious system isn’t concerned about the “unbeliever”; it’s more concerned about other religions and them following your beliefs, specifically Saturday Sabbath worship that you believe is the line of following G-d or not. In fact the SDA has a book out there that “teaches” how to talk to other faiths and how to convert them to the SDA faith. You aren’t concerned with the salvation of the “unbelieving lost”; you’re concerned with getting other christians to believe the same as you.

The arrogance of your faith to believe you are better than all others out there because you worship on Saturday verses Sunday is mind blowing. When the Jesus said “those who keep the commands of G-d” (Rev 12:17), he wasn’t saying to keep only “ten”; he was telling his target audience, the Jewish people, to keep ALL the commands…all 613. The reality is your faith has fallen quite short of what the Jesus said when he said heaven and earth will pass away before the law does and his target audience again was the Jew and they have 613 commands. So by your own belief system, you aren’t going to heaven either. How do you NOT see this?!?!? You have to ignore this fact and by doing so you’re following man and NOT G-d. You become another religious sect claiming you are right and all others are wrong, pretending to follow G-d. Read the Tanakh for truth, it will set you free from the chains of religion.

Curious, why do you only target the Catholic faith; why aren’t you targeting the Baptists, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Jehovah Witnesses, Later Day Saints, or any of the multitude of others faiths out there? Why just the Catholics, your religion says to target them all.

https://gc.adventist.org/official-statements/mission-statement-of-the-seventh-day-adventist-church/

https://adventist.org/beliefs/official/remnant-and-its-mission

 

 

[DesireTruth]

Read the Jewish bible, it doesn’t have the issues of confusing who G-d is.

If the Jesus is your “Lord”, doesn’t that put something between you and G-d? I think G-d has a word for that…hmmm, idolatry?

[DesireTruth]

@Proclaimer,

Apparently I’m missing something when I read the words the Jesus said, because the works being spoken of are the miracles he was performing. The text literally says it; however, it has been twisted to say what it doesn’t BECAUSE none are doing the miraculous signs and wonders the Jesus promised they would.

Where do you get that the Jesus is referencing the future of the “ministry”…from commentaries of religious scholars justifying the passage. The passage says being the believer in the Jesus is all that is needed to perform the same and “greater” works (aka miracles) that the Jesus was doing.

Either words mean what they mean or they’re meaningless. In short, as the christian, you cannot justify the words written in this passage and thus have to make something up so it can be reasoned away.

Before you bash the NET translation as being a “paraphrase”, highly recommend you look into who did the translating and don’t forget to take a peak at the notes of why they translated the way they did. I don’t think I have found anything quite as exhaustive as this; Gill, Henry, and Poole have taken a back seat.

 

You are so stuck on adoption you can’t see past the end of your nose. The adoption narrative is irrelevant, it’s false, it’s a justification; what really matters are the words G-d spoke to David in 2 Sam 7:1-17 and 1 Chronicles 17:1–15 and pay attention to verses 12 and 11 respectively. It say “set up thy seed after thee”; the word “seed” in Hebrew is “zera” and means to produce after its own kind. In the next verse in each it says “establish his throne for ever” and the only way the king’s throne can continue is thru a biological descendant. In other words the Jesus, to be in the line of David and Solomon, has to be a direct biological descendant of them and according to Matthew and Luke, the father of the Jesus in the spirit of G-d and as the story goes Joseph never had relations with Mary; so Joseph’s biology isn’t in the Jesus.

Before you run to the “Mary lineage”, remember being numbered with the father’s house; the mother had nothing to do with tribal lineage.

How is this so difficult to understand?!?!?

[DesireTruth]

@Proclaimer,

Concerning your other post about adoption; the adoption narrative is moot and really a waste of time to debate UNLESS you can back up what you are saying with proof, because what you’re presenting is “hear say” and you’re really applying today’s standards of an “adoption” to an event 2000 years ago; did you read the link I gave you, it’s what the Jewish community follows today and seems to align with the Tanakh; so what’s said on the website isn’t new, but comes from old.

The larger and more important question everyone here avoids, is how can the Jesus be the Messiah when he wasn’t conceived of the biological seed (male descendant) of David and Solomon (God’s words, not mine – another reason the adoption narrative is moot). Did the Jesus fulfill what was said the Messiah was to do when he came? Also, let’s not forget the genealogical account in Matthew who throws in Jeconiah – a man who was stripped of his kingship by G-d and told none of his descendants (which would include the Jesus according to Matthew) would ever sit on David’s throne…oops! The writer of Matthew made a huge mistake by including Jeconiah and the NT begins to collapse under its own weight of deception.

Prove to yourself, using the Tanakh, the Jesus is the true Messiah? Look up the passages quoted from the Tanakh the writer of Matthew claims are fulfillment of prophecies and ask if they really were: Matt 1:23; Matt 2:6; Matt 2:15; Matt 2:18; Matt 2:23(?where’s this?); Matt 4:15-16; Matt 8:17. If there are any one of these passages that has been twisted to fit the Jesus narrative, how can the NT be called the “infallible word of G-d”? Then there’s the book of Hebrews…rip it out!

[DesireTruth]

@Proclaimer,

I am amazed at how much people read between the lines when discussing the bible; either words have meaning and they mean what they say or they’re simply a literary device that can be interpreted anyway one decides and is how we end up with multiple meanings…is it any wonder why there are so many “christian” faiths today, with each claiming theirs is the “true” faith and all others are wrong?

The Jesus says, “the person who believes in me will perform the miraculous deeds that I am doing, and will perform greater deeds than these”, now please back up to verse 11, “Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me, but if you do not believe me, believe because of the miraculous deeds themselves.”, the “works” he’s speaking of were all those “miracles.” He wasn’t speaking of the spirit or bringing people to himself; he said to believe, at the very least, because of the miracles he’s performing. You saying, “these ‘greater works’ are connected with the coming of the Holy Spirit and the spread of the message after Jesus’ departure” is injecting here what the end of the book says. The Jesus wasn’t saying the spirit was going to help them or that the works he was speaking of were to spread “the gospel”, it was about the miracles he was performing. He goes on to say that believers were to simply ask anything in his name and he would do it (the miracles up to that point).

So I’ll ask again, why are our hospitals full? Does one not “love” our neighbor enough to heal them? If we’re being honest, your response gives the christian an excuse to not perform these great miracles the Jesus promised one believing in him would do by simply asking.

If you want to find the truth, remove your Jesus goggles, begin verifying what’s written the NT, and start studying the Tanakh…it will change you! Is it fear that keeps most stuck where they are?

[DesireTruth]

@Proclaimer,

Although Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus, he was Jesus’ legal father. In Jewish culture, legal paternity established family lineage and inheritance rights. He also had a biological descent through Mary, who may also have been a descendant of David. So that is a legal and a possible biological descent.

You may to check again the “legal paternity” concerning tribal lineage; tribal lineage DOES NOT “transfer” and comes from the father (source). Also, please read Num 1:2, 18; the sons are counted with their father’s house (tribe). The mother has NOTHING to do with tribal lineage. Both Matthew and Luke say the father of the Jesus is the “spirit of G-d” and NOT a descendant of David; G-d told David in 2 Samuel 7:12-13 that David’s kingdom would continue on thru his son Solomon forever, nothing about his other son Nathan. This would mean the Messiah would have to come thru Solomon…PERIOD!! There is no question to the meaning of what G-d spoke to David or are you saying G-d broke HIS promise to David?

Either way, the New Testament presents Jesus as fulfilling the prophecy that the Messiah would come from the house of David.

So because it was “presented” by the writers of two books as a fulfillment it is therefore truth?!?! The writer of Matthew “presented” several examples of the Jesus “fulfilling” what was spoken in the Tanakh and when verified proves the writer of Matthew made up these “fulfillments”…I like to call them lies.

If Jesus was a Jew, what house would you place him?

The Jesus was a “Jew”, because his mother was Jewish (read Ezra 9-10); the children born to these men were NOT considered part of Israel because these men married and had children with foreign women. The women were not Jewish and therefore neither were the children. It’s literally written in the book you call the “Word of G-d”; do you accept what G-d said or what man wants you to believe it says?

Concerning the “house” the Jesus belonged to, would be none; the Jesus’ father was the spirit of G-d who isn’t a descendant of David and Solomon (remember Num 1:2, 18 and being numbered with the father’s house). 2 Sam 7:1-17 and 1 Chronicles 17:1–15 is where G-d makes a covenant with David concerning the Messiah and MUST be a biological descendant, not a product of a mortal woman and a god. What the Jesus is, is a demigod. How does one not see this??

[DesireTruth]

@Proclaimer,

People have claimed to raise the dead. I saw a demon with my own eyes one time and was able to deliver my brother. The only reason greater works are even possible is because we stand on the shoulders of giants.
Also, much of what future generations have achieved is possible because Jesus is with the Father and he intercedes for us. We perhaps do not understand most of what we do and how it impacts people and the world.
Jesus discipled 12 people and taught many thousands. It is possible that some have discipled more and reached more for example.

It was the Jesus (the miracle worker in John 14:12) who stated those who simply “believed in him” would perform even greater “miracles” than he did. The Jesus saw a need and then did something about it. Yet, our hospital are filled with people, our graveyards are filling up daily, and hurts and pains everywhere; a world in shambles and where are the “believers” in the Jesus making everything right? Do these “believers” not “love” their neighbor enough (will of G-d mentioned previously)? Before one attempts to push this off on the individual in need as not having “enough faith”, that isn’t what the Jesus said; he said those who believed in him would do greater works; so the responsibility falls on the “believer” not the one in need.

You say you have performed a miracle, not to minimize it, but only one; “works” are plural.

[DesireTruth]

@Proclaimer,

If you love God and your fellow man, then you will do the will of God because you love and that means God and all that he has made.

If “love” is all I need to do the “will of G-d” then why do I need the Jesus. Why would I need to listen to a word the Jesus spoke? Are the 613 commands given by G-d insufficient? What did the Jesus say that would supersede anything originally spoken by G-d?

Thinking on atonement, G-d said to repent, turn from your wickedness, and HE would remember it no more (Nineveh – G-d forgiving); yet, christianity says I need the Jesus for atonement.

I “need” the Jesus; Prove it!

[DesireTruth]

@Proclaimer,

Isa 7:14 “For this reason the sovereign master himself will give you a confirming sign. Look, this young woman is about to conceive and will give birth to a son. You, young woman, will name him Immanuel.”

Please read the entire chapter of Isaiah 7 and tell me it’s about a coming “messiah.” If by one singular verse you can make the connection to be about a “messiah” (the Jesus), then you have just ignored and thrown out the context of what was written (G-d’s words). Besides the “prophesy” isn’t the “virginity” of the young woman, it’s about the boy rejecting evil and choosing good.

When will people start to verify anything?!?!?! G-d’s truth is there; all you have to do is read it!

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Still love bashing the Catholics from one side your mouth and from the other say how much you love them. How can you “love” someone when you continually bash them; you “love” someone by building them up, not continually tear them down. We call that double speak; let your yes be yes, and your no be no – pick a side.

Found something quite interesting concerning a member of CONgress, his name is Raul Ruiz from California, he is a member of the Demoncrat party and a Seventh Day Adventist. I thought SDA’s weren’t suppose to get involved in politics (source). What makes this so juicy is he is affiliated with the Demoncrat party, the party that supports abortions, unlawfulness, higher taxes, favors criminals over victims, criminality over justice, and have rejected G-d. Seems we have an individual who has come against the churches stance of remaining impartial and out of politics.

Still waiting for the passages that state the Catholic faith is suppose to be the religion of the WORLD and not just the United States. You do remember this “One World Faith”, according to “christianity”, encompasses the world and includes ALL nations and faiths united into one and not just the United States.

This would mean the over 2 billion people who follow Islam will also have to convert to this world wide faith…laughable! I guess there will be two religions that don’t succumb to this one world religion. Oh wait, I thought it was only the “christians” who would be superior to all other faiths and remain true to the the Jesus so as not to parish.

All this is going to happen in the next six to seven years according to a growing teaching the Jesus will return by 2032/33. When this date also comes and goes and still no the Jesus, what does the christian do? Additionally, when does this tribulation thing start? According to this rising teaching, the tribulation was to begin last year and last year has come and gone and there was nothing. So I guess we can expect the chaos to begin this year…RIGHT!!

Start reading and studying what G-d said and quit relying on manmade interpretations; verify everything!

[Author]

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