Worship God the Father only?

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 19 2011,22:33)

Mike, This is the equation, both the Father and the Son are the same nature, no need to change it: 1 divine father + 1 divine son = 1 divine unity

Kathi

the way you expressing your thought is that you say that one unit in heaven is a composition of two elements
and this is not so,

all is of God only one God and all other join as in submit,

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
Do a Bible word study on unity, ok. Do you know how to do that? If not, let me know.
Kathi

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,12:28)

Pierre, Do a Bible word study on unity, ok.  Do you know how to do that?  If not, let me know. Kathi

Kathi

you did not answer my comment

and yes I can do all what most can do in scriptures ,I have all the required computer programs to do so,with out have to go to the Internet this is a bonus to me,

Pierre

[terraricca]

Kathi

Quote

1 divine father + 1 divine son = 1 divine unity

A + B = C = c = B + A this equation shows that all unit are compost of two units

am I wrong ?

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
What did you find out about unity during your search?

A+B=C
This shows that two things can become a compound unity.
Kathi

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,14:32)

Pierre, What did you find out about unity during your search? A+B=C This shows that two things can become a compound unity. Kathi

Kathi

Quote

What did you find out about unity during your search? A+B=C This shows that two things can become a compound unity. Kathi

and so;

(A + B = C )  =  (c = B + A ) this equation shows that all unit are composted of two units
————————————————-

yes but then the reverse is also true and thats were you theory fails ,dead,caput,gone,

Pierre

[Lightenup]

No Pierre,
The equation works in both directions.
The two persons are not together as one being, but one compound unity.

[terraricca]

Kathi

what this means ?one compound unity

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 18 2011,23:21)

One of the demons answered as the representative of the group.  The name of the group was 'legion.'

Okay, so we agree that ONE demon, and ONLY ONE demon was addressed by Jesus and answered him at first.  So it is very fitting for that ONE demon to say, “MY name is Legion”, right?  And there is no reason from the grammar to think that the whole group of demons was a “singular unity”, as you have already agreed, right?

So the difference is that you think the ONE demon who was doing the talking referred to the NAME of the whole group of demons with the singular personal pronoun “MY”.  On the other hand, I think that the HEAD demon told Jesus that HIS (and ONLY HIS) name was Legion because HE (and ONLY HE) was speaking in behalf of many demons.

Now if we factor in the FACT that two or more persons are NEVER referred to with a SINGULAR, PERSONAL PRONOUN, then MY understanding must be the correct one.

Quote (Lightenup @ July 18 2011,23:21)

The America thing shows how a unity takes a singular pronoun.

A PERSONAL singular pronoun for the PEOPLE that make up America?  Show me.

Also, if you get the chance, could you address the post I brought over from the other thread like you asked?

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 18 2011,22:33)

Mike, This is the equation, both the Father and the Son are the same nature, no need to change it: 1 divine father + 1 divine son = 1 divine unity

And both of my human fathers were of the same nature also, so it is really MY equation that fits best with what you're trying to claim.  But I'll lose the “father” part and see how I do:

1 human + 1 human  = 1 human

1 God + 1 God = 1 God

Do both equations work equally well, Kathi?  Are both of them correct in your opinion?

Kathi, would you clarify whether or not your “1 divine unity” still consists of TWO Gods?  Are they always TWO Gods who work together in unity?  Or does the “unity” of them form only ONE God from the TWO?

peace,
mike

[Lightenup]

Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2011,18:45)

Kathi what this means ?one compound unity

Ok Pierre,
I will tell you:

The Bible speaks of the unity of God. Moses wrote.

Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one! (Deuteronomy 6:4).

God Cannot Be Divided
As a unity God cannot be divided. The technical term is “indivisible.” God cannot be divided, neither is He made up of multiple substances. The members of Jehovah our God are two distinct persons as a compound unity. God is one in number.

There Is An Absolute And A Compound Unity
While Scripture teaches that God is a unity we must realize there is a difference between an absolute and compound unity. For example, if we say “one man” we are referring to an absolute unity because only one person is in view. However, when the Scripture says the man and woman will be “one flesh” (Genesis 2:24) this is a compound unity. This is because the union consists of two distinct persons.

Examples Of A Compound Unity
Here are a couple of scriptures to show this:

Now when the seventh month came, and the sons of Israel were in the cities, the people gathered together as one man to Jerusalem (Ezra 3:1).

The many people were as one.

In Ezekiel 37:17:
Then join them for yourself one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand.

Both of these passages used the same Hebrew word (echad) for one as Deuteronomy 6:4.

Examples Of An Absolute Unity
When the idea of absolute unity, or absolute oneness, is meant, the Hebrew word 'yachidh' is used.

He said, “Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you” (Genesis 22:2).

In the Book of Amos it says.

I will turn your religious feasts into mourning and all your singing into weeping. I will make all of you wear sackcloth and shave your heads. I will make that time like mourning for an only son and the end of it like a bitter day (Amos 8:10).

Zechariah wrote.

I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn (Zechariah 12:10).

This Hebrew word is used about a dozen times in the Old Testament. It is never used to describe the unity of God.

A comparison of the passages where the different Hebrew words are used shows that a compound unity is what is in mind in Deuteronomy 6:4. Furthermore, the fact that the word for God in Hebrew is Elohim, a plural noun, we have further inference of a compound unity.

In conclusion:
There is a difference between a compound unity and an absolute unity. When we speak of “one man” we would be speaking of an absolute unity. When referring to man and woman being “one flesh” we would be speaking of a compound unity. The Hebrew word yachidh is used of something that is an absolute unity while the word echad is used of a compound unity.

The God of the Bible is a compound unity. This is evidenced by the use of the Hebrew term echad when speaking of God. Although there is only one God who exists, within the nature of the one God are two distinct persons.

I hope that helps you understand.
Kathi

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,20:44)

Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2011,18:45) Kathi what this means ?one compound unity Ok Pierre, I will tell you: The Bible speaks of the unity of God. Moses wrote. Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one! (Deuteronomy 6:4). God Cannot Be Divided As a unity God cannot be divided. The technical term is “indivisible.” God cannot be divided, neither is He made up of multiple substances. The members of Jehovah our God are two distinct persons as a compound unity. God is one in number. There Is An Absolute And A Compound Unity While Scripture teaches that God is a unity we must realize there is a difference between an absolute and compound unity. For example, if we say “one man” we are referring to an absolute unity because only one person is in view. However, when the Scripture says the man and woman will be “one flesh” (Genesis 2:24) this is a compound unity. This is because the union consists of two distinct persons. Examples Of A Compound Unity Here are a couple of scriptures to show this: Now when the seventh month came, and the sons of Israel were in the cities, the people gathered together as one man to Jerusalem (Ezra 3:1). The many people were as one. In Ezekiel 37:17: Then join them for yourself one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. Both of these passages used the same Hebrew word (echad) for one as Deuteronomy 6:4. Examples Of An Absolute Unity When the idea of absolute unity, or absolute oneness, is meant, the Hebrew word 'yachidh' is used. He said, “Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you” (Genesis 22:2). In the Book of Amos it says. I will turn your religious feasts into mourning and all your singing into weeping. I will make all of you wear sackcloth and shave your heads. I will make that time like mourning for an only son and the end of it like a bitter day (Amos 8:10). Zechariah wrote. I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn (Zechariah 12:10). This Hebrew word is used about a dozen times in the Old Testament. It is never used to describe the unity of God. A comparison of the passages where the different Hebrew words are used shows that a compound unity is what is in mind in Deuteronomy 6:4. Furthermore, the fact that the word for God in Hebrew is Elohim, a plural noun, we have further inference of a compound unity. In conclusion: There is a difference between a compound unity and an absolute unity. When we speak of “one man” we would be speaking of an absolute unity. When referring to man and woman being “one flesh” we would be speaking of a compound unity. The Hebrew word yachidh is used of something that is an absolute unity while the word echad is used of a compound unity. The God of the Bible is a compound unity. This is evidenced by the use of the Hebrew term echad when speaking of God. Although there is only one God who exists, within the nature of the one God are two distinct persons. I hope that helps you understand. Kathi

Kathi

could you show me how it is in hamony with the next scriptures;

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.

show me

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 19 2011,20:44)

Furthermore, the fact that the word for God in Hebrew is Elohim, a plural noun, we have further inference of a compound unity.

And King Nebuchadnezzar was referred to by the plural word for “king”.  Who was he a compound unity with?

(See Pierre?  This is where the study pays off.  I am fully prepared to answer this point because I have studied to gain a fuller understanding…………..to the glory of my God.)

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
Remember context is king. Everytime you see the word God it is not necessarily the Father, or the unity, or the Son. Context will help you understand.

I will supply who I believe the pronoun applies to as well as which member of the compound unity of God is being spoken of:

Col 1:15 He (the Son) is the image of the invisible God (the Father), the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him (the Son) all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him(the Son) and for him(the Son).
Col 1:17 He(the Son) is before all things, and in him(the Son) all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he(the Son) is the head of the body, the church; he(the Son) is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he(the Son) might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him(the Son),
Col 1:20 and through him(the Son) to reconcile to himself(the Father?) all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his(the Son) blood, shed on the cross.

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word(the Son), and the Word(the Son) was with God(the Father), and the Word(the Son) was God(deity).
Jn 1:2 He(the Son) was with God(the Father) in the beginning.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 19 2011,21:02)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 18 2011,22:33) Mike, This is the equation, both the Father and the Son are the same nature, no need to change it: 1 divine father + 1 divine son = 1 divine unity And both of my human fathers were of the same nature also, so it is really MY equation that fits best with what you're trying to claim.  But I'll lose the “father” part and see how I do: 1 human + 1 human  = 1 human 1 God + 1 God = 1 God Do both equations work equally well, Kathi?  Are both of them correct in your opinion? Kathi, would you clarify whether or not your “1 divine unity” still consists of TWO Gods?  Are they always TWO Gods who work together in unity?  Or does the “unity” of them form only ONE God from the TWO? peace, mike

Mike,
Don't try to rewrite the equation for me. It works just fine.

1 divine father + 1 divine son = 1 divine unity called Jehovah our God
The divine Father is a mighty God
The divine Son is a mighty God
They are a compound unity called Jehovah our God.

As you can see, I am not going play how many ways can we write the equation in order to confuse everybody. It is what it is.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Mike
you said:

Quote

Now if we factor in the FACT that two or more persons are NEVER referred to with a SINGULAR, PERSONAL PRONOUN, then MY understanding must be the correct one.

So, you want me to show you how a compound unity is referred to with singular, personal pronouns. Is that right? And will that put an end to it?

Kathi

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 20 2011,21:25)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 19 2011,20:44) Furthermore, the fact that the word for God in Hebrew is Elohim, a plural noun, we have further inference of a compound unity. And King Nebuchadnezzar was referred to by the plural word for “king”.  Who was he a compound unity with? (See Pierre?  This is where the study pays off.  I am fully prepared to answer this point because I have studied to gain a fuller understanding…………..to the glory of my God.)

Mike

according to Kathi we are one unit

[Lightenup]

According to Kathi, you guys are united in stubborneness…one compound unity of stubborness

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,21:42)

Pierre, Remember context is king.  Everytime you see the word God it is not necessarily the Father, or the unity, or the Son.  Context will help you understand. I will supply who I believe the pronoun applies to as well as which member of the compound unity of God is being spoken of: Col 1:15 He (the Son) is the image of the invisible God (the Father), the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him (the Son) all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him(the Son) and for him(the Son). Col 1:17 He(the Son) is before all things, and in him(the Son) all things hold together. Col 1:18 And he(the Son) is the head of the body, the church; he(the Son) is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he(the Son) might have the supremacy. Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him(the Son), Col 1:20 and through him(the Son) to reconcile to himself(the Father?) all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his(the Son) blood, shed on the cross. Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word(the Son), and the Word(the Son) was with God(the Father), and the Word(the Son) was God(deity). Jn 1:2 He(the Son) was with God(the Father) in the beginning. Kathi

Kathi

this remind me of you Mic;5 ;2-5

well you forgot one” firstborn (Christ)”

and this should be “was a God(deity).

you missing the “a”in this way all is of God and true

so how does this locks with your view of compound unity ?

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2011,21:57)

According to Kathi, you guys are united in stubborneness…one compound unity of stubborness

Kathi

Quote

stubborneness

we should be you are keeping trowing that bolt in the gears of truth

Pierre

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