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Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 25 2010,16:05) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 25 2010,20:53) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 25 2010,12:47) shimmer so you now understand what i was saying a few days ago as true.
Pierre
Ummm, is that those verses ? Terrarica, I will read them, sorry… I havent got around to them yet…but I will.
shimmerno ,it was about the internet relation and people
Pierre
Terrarica, the internet can have it's good points and it can have it's bad points, im sick of it at the moment, need a break !You know, fresh air and things ! Reading bible etc!
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 26 2010,12:02) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 25 2010,16:05) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 25 2010,20:53) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 25 2010,12:47) shimmer so you now understand what i was saying a few days ago as true.
Pierre
Ummm, is that those verses ? Terrarica, I will read them, sorry… I havent got around to them yet…but I will.
shimmerno ,it was about the internet relation and people
Pierre
Terrarica, the internet can have it's good points and it can have it's bad points, im sick of it at the moment, need a break !You know, fresh air and things ! Reading bible etc!
shimmergood ,see when you ready any time
God bless you in your research.
Pierre
Mark:
Quote You can't handle the truth obiously, because you cannot support your love for God with actions. I can get witnesses to any of the points I made, most importantly God. I ask you one more time. What are you doing with all this exclusively correct worship?
Mark, are you trying to say you're a better Christian than I because of deeds? Hmmm…..what does the Bible say about that? It's because of the undeserved kindness of Jehovah, not because of works………so no one should boast of their “good deeds”.Mark:
Quote You do not know my heart, anymore then you have any comprehension of who Jesus really is. Love-Mark
And that's what I'd like to discuss with you guys. Who exactly IS Jesus? Is he God? Should we worship him?The answers are clearly explained in the scriptures Mark. Why are you all so scared to delve deeply into them? Why must you and WJ and SF always claim things…….but then not be willing to defend them?
The challenge remains to ANY of you out there. Post your #1 scripture that teaches the worship of Jesus, or that Jesus is God, etc………..and let us true scripture believers have a go at it.
What's the problem? Just post a scripture Mark. Just one. Then we can learn and grow together through understanding what the scripture is really saying.
I'm sorry I attacked you. I have felt bad about it all day. But it really irks me when people just claim “Jesus is God because he said I and the Father are one”. But then when I point out that's not really what the scripture means, or otherwise Jesus' hope is that some of us will also be God, you guys run. I want someone to stand and defend this trinity lie so they can learn the truth about it. And it makes me angry that people would rather just “believe what they believe”, and leave it at that. If you guys are proud of your belief, then explain that belief to me. Let's discuss it. Let's get down to the nitty gritty and find out if it is me who needs to adjust my beliefs……..or you.
peace and love,
mikeQuote But it really irks me when people just claim “Jesus is God because he said I and the Father are one”. But then when I point out that's not really what the scripture means, or otherwise Jesus' hope is that some of us will also be God, you guys run.
Is this what all the fuss is about it?
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….6;st=30
In the Anti-trin thread we discussed this alreadyQuote Psalm 82
” 1God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.”Idk doesnt seem that Jesus was talking abotu the same thing.
if we look again on verse
35: IF he called THEM gods, unto who the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; (continuation of his point)
36: say ye of him, whom the father hath sanctified, and sent into the world,(this is a question)
, thou blasphemest; because i said, I am the Son of God?well to me its saying that first if the writer called them gods, and that word is inspired by God, than it cannot be broken.
in other words why would you say that i blasphme when you know that i have been sanctfied, and sent into the world… and say its wrong for me to say i am the Son of God?Idk.. thats the way i see it.
I mean the first gods that is mentions they will die, as princes… i think its different. Jesus is says first off that he is differnt from them by saying that he was sanctified and also sent into the world.
I see differnces there. what do you think?
than he says
hey if i dont do the works of my father, dont believe me,but if i do, why dont you believe?
look at my actions, look what i have done, so that you can understand and know
that the father is in me, and I in Him.Jesus focused on their belief of why is it ok for them to believe they are gods according to scripture and not believe that
He is the Son of the Most High who does his Father works and yet say he blasphemes?Jesus is saying, “Dudes, God called certain humans “gods” before. And I'm not even saying I'm God, but His Son.”
Hey D, are you up for the challenge? Post your favorite ONE scripture that tells us to worship Jesus or that he is God.
Let's start discussing these scriptures and get to the bottom of them.
peace and love,
mikeMike
Quote How's this for a direct answer? NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN GOD. So no, God did not come in a form that everybody was able to SEE. John says no one has EVER seen God……..and he writes this AFTER many people had seen Jesus. 
Than we are going back into the circle of arguements which is predictable for me to respond in this way.
No one has seen God at any time, Yet Jesus is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE God.Arnt you the Same Mike who stated long ago that if God wanted to save everyone in a different way he could?
So why for the sake of arguement can you not make a logical analysis or possibility that God can become a human being?Here is a direct Question, does God have the power(omnipontence) to become a human being if he simply wished to?
Mike
Quote That's right. How many ways can I say it? I WILL NOT WORSHIP JESUS. I will worship ONLY the One who Jesus, my Lord, tells me to worship. D, Jesus wants to know why you call him Lord, but not do what he says.
So in a sense your Denying Jesus? How can you call Him Lord and not worship Him? John worshiped in Angel for just showing him revelations… And yuo cant worship the one who is the Author of your salvation?
Did he ever deny worship?Quote I haven't seen any “good points” he's made yet. Everything he's claimed can be EASILY refuted by God's Word. So, do your best my friend. Post one of his “good points”, and let's get down to it. Won't anyone take me up on my challenge? Post your best scripture that says we should worship Jesus. Let us true believers of scripture have a shot at it.
I actually think he made good points, but thats my opinion. Everything is easily refuted, all you got to do is close your eyes and tel your self it isnt true.
Everything is disputed even at work, everyone has their own ways of doing things. Honestly this is just a personal thing im going to share with you, but this whole dispute is very common amoung many places.For example how to simply clean a table at my job, i work in three stores and each one does it differently and tells me that the other one is wrong.
humorous?
A challenge? a challenge over a better interpretation of the bible? or what this greek word means over the other? or what did this scholar think over the other,
I offer a better challenge, lets set fires to alters by asking God to do so just like Elijah and the baals prophets.
Of course True believers in scripture but how about believers of Christ?
Quote D, you are proving MY point here. John worshipped someone other than God and was told what? To worship ONLY God. Not “God AND Jesus”, right? But ONLY God. peace and love,
mike
Actually Im not, you simply didnt get it i guess.
Thats not the point im making, my Point is that John knew better than to do such a thing, and knew Christ, and had a relationship with God and he was a Apostle with a great reputation yet stilll screwed up WITHOUT any consequences.How is it that you DENY that People worshipped Jesus, and yet admit that John worshiped in Angel in the same breath, isnt Jesus more than the angels?
John Knew better, and He was a witness to alot of things in His life and he STILL worshipped in Angel, KNOWING BETTER, He knew the SCriptures better than you,
He actually MET Jesus,
He walked the walked and Talked the Talked,yet he Worshipped in Angel,
IF HE worshipped in Angel, than so would you.And remember mike when you say Only God, this is a title that Includes Jesus.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 26 2010,06:23) Jesus is saying, “Dudes, God called certain humans “gods” before. And I'm not even saying I'm God, but His Son.” Hey D, are you up for the challenge? Post your favorite ONE scripture that tells us to worship Jesus or that he is God.
Let's start discussing these scriptures and get to the bottom of them.
peace and love,
mike
Arnt you the Great Analysis of Scripture?did you not study psalm 82?
Its simple, these gods will die like Men, there is a point Jesus was trying to Make.How is being a Son of God blasphemy? and why Did the Jews think he was trying to make himself EQUAL to God according to the way they reacted?
He was Sanctified and Sent, he made his distinction very clear.
SF:
Quote Here is a direct Question, does God have the power(omnipontence) to become a human being if he simply wished to?
Absolutely. But once a human being just like us, He would no longer possess the power to become God again, would He? And if He did possess that power, then He wasn't really a human being just like us, right? Because we human beings do not have the power to become God.That's enough of the philisophical stuff D. Let's debate scriptures.
SF:
Quote So in a sense your Denying Jesus? How can you call Him Lord and not worship Him? John worshiped in Angel for just showing him revelations… And yuo cant worship the one who is the Author of your salvation?
Did he ever deny worship?
Like he says D, how can YOU call him Lord and not do what he says? You keep mentioning John as if he did a good thing by worshipping an angel. John made a mistake that we all can learn from. It had to be embarrising for him to admit he did this stupid thing…….so why did he include those two mistakes in his Book? Because God inspired him to do so. Why? Because God knew that even as Christians, we might be led to make this same mistake with Jesus. So He nipped it in the bud by letting us know that John did a stupid thing and was told not to. The lesson was to remember to worship ONLY God, like the scriptures all teach – even if you are confronted with an awe inspiring being that you are totally “smitten” by. That is the lesson D. Learn it or don't.And Jesus never “denied worship” because Jesus was never worshipped. Unless you have some proof that he was?
SF:
Quote A challenge? a challenge over a better interpretation of the bible? or what this greek word means over the other? or what did this scholar think over the other,
Give it a shot and let's see what we learn from the experience. Or are you “scared”?
SF:
Quote And remember mike when you say Only God, this is a title that Includes Jesus.
Really D?John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Hmmmm…….just like Micah 5:4, these two scriptures seem to list Jesus as someone OTHER THAN and LESSOR TO God.
So when I say “God”, I mean “God Almighty”.
Here's some more, just so you can get a taste of what's coming if you accept the challenge.
John 5:44 (Jesus speaking)
How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God ?1 Timothy 1:17
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.Each one of these clearly show Jesus is someone other than God. Oh, and the scriptures are LOADED with passages just like these.
Come on D. Take the challenge. Let's learn something together.
And how come no one wants to answer this question?
Does YOUR God have a God?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Nov. 26 2010,12:42) did you not study psalm 82?
Its simple, these gods will die like Men, there is a point Jesus was trying to Make.
Why do you think that D? What did Jesus say about that Psalm to the Jews? Was he teaching from what the Psalm itself was about, or only borrowing the “you are gods” part to make his point that is was apparently okay for God to call men “gods”, so why was it blasphemy for him to say he was God's Son?You are reading too much into what Jesus actually said to the Jews. He wasn't giving them a lesson about who was going to die and who wasn't. He was just pointing out that God Almighty at one time called mere mortal men “gods”, so where is the crime in saying he is God's Son?
mike
Mike,
When Jesus mentioned that about men being called gods He was making a comparison between men being called gods and Himself, the Only begotten god being called god. His point was…how much more would the only begotten god, i.e. the Son of God, be called god if mere men are called that. That is the way I read it.Maybe your ALL right and maybe your all wrong. How do you know MAYBE God doesnt mind either, God likes variety you know….. Maybe we are all unique in all that we do with God……So some worship the Son….Some go to the Father….. MAYBE GOD DOESNT MIND ANY OF IT ? There were 12 Tribes, all were different. Just a thought. (so by you trying to change each others ways…..?)
Shimmer,
I'm not trying to change anybodys ways. I am stirred to respond when someone says I am wrong and implies that I am out of a state of grace when I worship Jesus, my Lord God and Savior. Then challenges arguements to “drive the point home”. This reminds me of growing up in my old neighborhood. We were living behind a huge Church of Christ. Most of the neighborhood was Cof C. After the guy across the street came and met my father, and found out we were Catholic, no one ever had anything to do with us anymore. In the 5th grade the daughter told me frankly that I was going to hell, as a concrete fact. My little sister was retarded also andthis made us reaaaaly differant. Shortly after a guy my big sister met at school left his car down the street and snuck over. When she asked him why he said he could not be seen coming over to our house, but he wanted to have a relationship with her, made her feel like a whore. The rest in the town were southern Baptist, and I had to deal with judgemental people until I finally moved away. I do not like it when someone tells me I'm out of grace for something I believe,especially when it is worshipping Jesus. Godbless-Mark
Mikeboll,
I'm not saying I'm a better christian than you are, only God knows that. What I'm saying is since you have a correct form of worship, and God must bless you for that, what have you done with it? Like I said before, it's not “Performing acts for people to see” here, nobody knows you personally. The only thing that matters on here is that you and God (ok,the Father) knows it's the truth. If you think men have a good computer, you should see what God problibly has.
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. (James 2:14-18 ESV)
I'm just sayin'. If you can't mention anything then, IMO , you might fit into this catagory:
“The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, so practice and observe whatever they tell you–but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice.”
I love you-Mark
By the way Mike, besides what you do for God(ok, The Father), how do you worship? Where do you assemble? how do you worship God?
Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 26 2010,06:24) By the way Mike, besides what you do for God(ok, The Father), how do you worship? Where do you assemble? how do you worship God?
MarkI have asked Mike this and he is yet to answer!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 27 2010,09:34) Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 26 2010,06:24) By the way Mike, besides what you do for God(ok, The Father), how do you worship? Where do you assemble? how do you worship God?
MarkI have asked Mike this and he is yet to answer!
WJ
Mark and WJJn 4:21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
Jn 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”Pierre
Mark and WJ
it turns all around the truth and our inner being doing what God the father want ,this is for some difficult to accept,
some have decided things with there on agenda.
Pierre
Pierre
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