Worship God the Father only?

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Nov. 22 2010,12:42)

If God is not a God of confusion, than How is it that it has comes to defining an ancient language to determine whom to Worship, Wouldnt it be better to ask him, not based on our biaseness? The same God who inspired the writing of the commandments and scriptures is the Living God that currently exists today, have we become dependant on proving what God thinks based on language, and inpterpretation of words and grammer? The only reason one would refer back to ancient manuscript as some of the first fathers of christiantiy did to debate and argue over what is really written or not, is becuase they dont know Him. Its like debating whether if Dennison believes in a Trinity or not, based of what i have written in this forum, even coming to a point to defning terms and depend on your own understanding to prove what you think that i believe, but wouldnt it be logical just to Ask me, and I will respond.   isnt it possible to simply ask the Living almighty God?

SF

you say;isnt it possible to simply ask the Living almighty God?

BUT HE TOLD US ,BUT ONLY A FEW BELIEVES WHAT HE SAYS.

THAT S WERE THE PROBLEM LAYS

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 21 2010,13:38)

No Kathi, Please DON'T refine my question.  There is worship, and then there is doing obeisance.  There is no such thing as “civil worship”.  What you're calling “civil worship” is “doing obeisance” and is not “worship” at all. When the man bowed to King David, he was not performing “civil worship” Kathi, for any kind of “worship” given to King David would have been against the commandments of God. This is just another “word game” that someone has come up with as a diversion. About your post, first let me point out that even your source says that the times that people bowed to him on earth were NOT the so-called “religious worship”.  Can we agree on this?  Is this enough to show you, Mark and Keith that proskuneo didn't ALWAYS mean “religious worship”? If you and Mark, who apparently loved your post, agree that NOT ALL times of proskuneo meant “religious worship”, because as your own source says, “Not with a civil worship, as he was sometimes worshipped by men, in the days of his flesh, who, though they took him for some extraordinary person, knew him not to be the Son of God;”, then I will be happy to discuss the Luke passage with you. So……..do you both agree that while on earth, Jesus was NOT “religious-worshipped”? peace and love, mike

Mike,
What do you mean that I can't refine the question? I don't like your question, it is loaded and not an honest question. I think civil worship vs. religious worship is much more clear to describe the differences of worship. Religious worship is tied to faith in a deity, civil worship has to do with worldly authorities. The first commandment is about religious worship and not about civil worship.

If we can't agree on that we can't move on. The commentators had no problem with the terms, they even used them.

I noticed that you overlooked a simple word and I wonder why. It seems deceitful but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. The commentator said:

Quote

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible And they worshipped him,…. Not with a civil worship, as he was sometimes worshipped by men, in the days of his flesh, who, though they took him for some extraordinary person, knew him not to be the Son of God; but with religious worship as God:

you said this about that:

Quote

About your post, first let me point out that even your source says that the times that people bowed to him on earth were NOT the so-called “religious worship”.  Can we agree on this?  Is this enough to show you, Mark and Keith that proskuneo didn't ALWAYS mean “religious worship”?

Do you see how you completely missed what the commentator actually did say by his word “sometimes?” Now are you being deceitful or did you just miss that Mike?

Also, I don't believe that Mark, Keith or I ever said that proskuneo was always religious worship. That should be obvious when I add the term 'civil worship' in comparison, both are proskuneo. I have shown you that proskuneo has been translated as worship in the first commandment and bowing down, so your changing the words doesn't solve any thing.

you ask:

Quote

So……..do you both agree that while on earth, Jesus was NOT “religious-worshipped”?

No I don't agree with your absolutes. Add the word 'sometimes' not receiving religious worship and I can agree.

So, please do discuss the Luke passage if you can accept that.
Thanks!

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 21 2010,06:17)

IMO the devil has really done a good job of screwing things up when I actually have people telling me it's wrong to worship Jesus.

Yes Mark,
He must increase and we must decrease…that was from John the Baptist.

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 22 2010,13:53)

Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 21 2010,06:17) IMO the devil has really done a good job of screwing things up when I actually have people telling me it's wrong to worship Jesus. Yes Mark, He must increase and we must decrease…that was from John the Baptist.

Kathi

WE” are not John the baptist,what is that type of interpretation???

Pierre

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 21 2010,23:53)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Nov. 22 2010,05:42) If God is not a God of confusion, than How is it that it has comes to defining an ancient language to determine whom to Worship, Wouldnt it be better to ask him, not based on our biaseness? Hi Dennison, I hope things are better with you now. There is not a whole lot of decyphering needed to understand “worship the LORD your God and serve him ONLY”. If Jesus said these words, then they didn't include himself. Case closed.    And yes, D-linquent, because I SAID SO!   peace and love, mike

Hi Mike,
I started to remember the purpose of why i joined the Forum, and the good intentions I had to end debate and get closer to God.

I feel a bit more rested and less clouded as i have been for awile due to alot of circumstances.

The only decyphering(circumcision) needed is in our own very hearts and minds, examining ourselves with the word with a holy fear of Him.
Jesus said these words, but did he include him self? does he see himself as the God or being equal with God? all this debate and questioning ends by asking him, and not reading a words that needs decyphering, but instead humbly asking him for his Truth and not our own.
The Word is Living, and Active, sharper than any two-edge sword, that can even cut through bones, even the intentions of your heart, even your soul. Is this the imperfect bible that scriptures speaks about? Is the Living Word only powerful by imprinted words, or the power behind the imprinted words?

The Bible we read today is Not God, and the Word of God has never been tamperd with because it continues to live IN Us, as we have a relationship with Him.

I cant imagine Paul and the others doubting scripture and the emphasis in words, even Jesus said there are those look through scriptures looking for eternal life, when life Is in Him.
The Writers wrote about their Testimony about something that they Lived and experienced, the Word was already alive in Them.

This Case is closed and sealed in truth by God and God alone, there is no other more worthy than Him.

Are we really worthy enough?
I find the Lamb is the only one who is worthy
God is Living, Jesus Ressurected and Is alive today,

The Gospel is that Jesus is alive again,
Ask Him

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 21 2010,23:56)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Nov. 22 2010,12:42) If God is not a God of confusion, than How is it that it has comes to defining an ancient language to determine whom to Worship, Wouldnt it be better to ask him, not based on our biaseness? The same God who inspired the writing of the commandments and scriptures is the Living God that currently exists today, have we become dependant on proving what God thinks based on language, and inpterpretation of words and grammer? The only reason one would refer back to ancient manuscript as some of the first fathers of christiantiy did to debate and argue over what is really written or not, is becuase they dont know Him. Its like debating whether if Dennison believes in a Trinity or not, based of what i have written in this forum, even coming to a point to defning terms and depend on your own understanding to prove what you think that i believe, but wouldnt it be logical just to Ask me, and I will respond.   isnt it possible to simply ask the Living almighty God? SF you say;isnt it possible to simply ask the Living almighty God? BUT HE TOLD US ,BUT ONLY A FEW BELIEVES WHAT HE SAYS. THAT S WERE THE PROBLEM LAYS Pierre

How did He Tell you?

Are you stating that God actually told you and if so by what means?

Did you pray about this?

Did you really ask?

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Nov. 22 2010,14:14)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 21 2010,23:56) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Nov. 22 2010,12:42) If God is not a God of confusion, than How is it that it has comes to defining an ancient language to determine whom to Worship, Wouldnt it be better to ask him, not based on our biaseness? The same God who inspired the writing of the commandments and scriptures is the Living God that currently exists today, have we become dependant on proving what God thinks based on language, and inpterpretation of words and grammer? The only reason one would refer back to ancient manuscript as some of the first fathers of christiantiy did to debate and argue over what is really written or not, is becuase they dont know Him. Its like debating whether if Dennison believes in a Trinity or not, based of what i have written in this forum, even coming to a point to defning terms and depend on your own understanding to prove what you think that i believe, but wouldnt it be logical just to Ask me, and I will respond.   isnt it possible to simply ask the Living almighty God? SF you say;isnt it possible to simply ask the Living almighty God? BUT HE TOLD US ,BUT ONLY A FEW BELIEVES WHAT HE SAYS. THAT S WERE THE PROBLEM LAYS Pierre How did He Tell you? Are you stating that God actually told you and if so by what means? Did you pray about this? Did you really ask?

SF

if you believe the word of God is of God then if you read it it is addressed to you,right??

wen then wen you read the ten commandments does it not say to only worship God,

and Jesus did not change that did he ??

so you have two witness at the highest level who telling you;God and the son of God;

but no one seems to listen.what is this tell you???

Pierre

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 22 2010,01:26)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Nov. 22 2010,14:14) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 21 2010,23:56) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Nov. 22 2010,12:42) If God is not a God of confusion, than How is it that it has comes to defining an ancient language to determine whom to Worship, Wouldnt it be better to ask him, not based on our biaseness? The same God who inspired the writing of the commandments and scriptures is the Living God that currently exists today, have we become dependant on proving what God thinks based on language, and inpterpretation of words and grammer? The only reason one would refer back to ancient manuscript as some of the first fathers of christiantiy did to debate and argue over what is really written or not, is becuase they dont know Him. Its like debating whether if Dennison believes in a Trinity or not, based of what i have written in this forum, even coming to a point to defning terms and depend on your own understanding to prove what you think that i believe, but wouldnt it be logical just to Ask me, and I will respond.   isnt it possible to simply ask the Living almighty God? SF you say;isnt it possible to simply ask the Living almighty God? BUT HE TOLD US ,BUT ONLY A FEW BELIEVES WHAT HE SAYS. THAT S WERE THE PROBLEM LAYS Pierre How did He Tell you? Are you stating that God actually told you and if so by what means? Did you pray about this? Did you really ask? SF if you believe the word of God is of God then if you read it it is addressed to you,right?? wen then wen you read the ten commandments does it not say to only worship God, and Jesus did not change that did he ?? so you have two witness at the highest level who telling you;God and the son of God; but no one seems to listen.what is this tell you??? Pierre

You didnt Answer my questions.

So why should i answer yours?

You didnt understand what im trying to focus on, the inspiritation behind the writers is a Living God who at this very moment you can simply Ask him the Truth and he will give it to you.

The question is have you really asked?
and if you did, what did he say?

the Word is LIVING, what does that mean to you?

[Lightenup]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 21 2010,15:11)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 22 2010,13:53) Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 21 2010,06:17) IMO the devil has really done a good job of screwing things up when I actually have people telling me it's wrong to worship Jesus. Yes Mark, He must increase and we must decrease…that was from John the Baptist. Kathi WE” are not John the baptist,what is that type of interpretation??? Pierre

Pierre,
John speaks for himself and says I must decrease but I put the 'we' in there because I can't think of any man that should be higher than Jesus. Can you?

[Lightenup]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Nov. 21 2010,15:12)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 21 2010,23:53) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Nov. 22 2010,05:42) If God is not a God of confusion, than How is it that it has comes to defining an ancient language to determine whom to Worship, Wouldnt it be better to ask him, not based on our biaseness? Hi Dennison, I hope things are better with you now. There is not a whole lot of decyphering needed to understand “worship the LORD your God and serve him ONLY”. If Jesus said these words, then they didn't include himself. Case closed.    And yes, D-linquent, because I SAID SO!   peace and love, mike Hi Mike, I started to remember the purpose of why i joined the Forum, and the good intentions I had to end debate and get closer to God. I feel a bit more rested and less clouded as i have been for awile due to alot of circumstances. The only decyphering(circumcision) needed is in our own very hearts and minds, examining ourselves with the word with a holy fear of Him.   Jesus said these words, but did he include him self? does he see himself as the God or being equal with God? all this debate and questioning ends by asking him, and not reading a words that needs decyphering, but instead humbly asking him for his Truth and not our own. The Word is Living, and Active, sharper than any two-edge sword, that can even cut through bones, even the intentions of your heart, even your soul.  Is this the imperfect bible that scriptures speaks about?  Is the Living Word only powerful by imprinted words, or the power behind the imprinted words? The Bible we read today is Not God, and the Word of God has never been tamperd with because it continues to live IN Us, as we have a relationship with Him.   I cant imagine Paul and the others doubting scripture and the emphasis in words, even Jesus said there are those look through scriptures looking for eternal life, when life Is in Him. The Writers wrote about their Testimony about something that they Lived and experienced, the Word was already alive in Them.   This Case is closed and sealed in truth by God and God alone, there is no other more worthy than Him.   Are we really worthy enough? I find the Lamb is the only one who is worthy God is Living, Jesus Ressurected and Is alive today, The Gospel is that Jesus is alive again, Ask Him

Dennison,
Good post! I asked the Father once, maybe a year ago if it was ok to worship His Son and He immediatel put an old hymn on my mind that I hadn't thought of in a while. I think it was this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuMh_ept-Js

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 21 2010,06:10)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 21 2010,14:38) Mike, you said: Quote Why do you insist that it means “God-Worship” in each and every reference to Jesus? Let me refine your question to “Why do you insist that it means 'religious worship' in several references to Jesus? It is like you gloss right over the term I use…'religious worship' vs. 'civil worship.'  I believe that the people gave Jesus religious worship and not civil worship. Regarding the pharisees and the blind man…they knew he was giving Jesus religious worship, they knew he was declaring himself as a disciple of Jesus, all which they punished him for by casting him out of the temple.  Soon after they attempted to stone Jesus for making Himself equal to God. Give it up Mike with the Pharisees and the blind man.  It was clearly not civil worship or even civil homage but religious in nature.  Nevertheless there were several passages that used the word proskuneo towards Jesus. I am convinced that the proskuneo-ing given to Jesus was typically not civil worship…He did not have a kingdom on earth, so if anyone talked about His kingdom, they were referring to a heavenly kingdom, hence not civil worship but religious worship as faith showed them He was from God.  You seem to think that every instance that Jesus was proskuneo-ed it was civil worship and that just isn't so.  He was not an earthly king but a heavenly king.  Earthly kings get civil worship, heavenly kings get religious worship.  The OT taught of a heavenly kingdom and Jesus taught of a heavenly kingdom.  Jesus was worshiped by His disciples and if they did that so will I.  I have the faith that He is as much a part of the Father as a ray of the sun. Look at this instance and you can clearly see that this is not civil worship: 50 And He led them out as far as Bethany, and He lifted up His hands and blessed them. 51 While He was blessing them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven. 52 And they, after worshiping Him, returned to Jerusalem with great joy, 53 and were continually in the temple praising God. Some commentary on this: Barnes' Notes on the Bible They worshipped him – The word “worship” does not “always” denote religious homage. See the notes at Matthew 2:11. Compare Luke 14:10. But here it is to be remarked, 1. That they offered this worship to an “absent” Saviour. It was “after” he left them and had vanished out of their sight. It was, therefore, an act of religion, and was the “first” religious homage that was paid to Jesus after he had left the world. 2. If “they” worshipped an absent Saviour – a Saviour unseen by the bodily eye, it is right for “us” to do it. It was an example which we “may and should” follow. 3. If worship may be rendered to Jesus, he is divine. See Exodus 20:4-5. Clarke's Commentary on the Bible They worshipped him – Let it be observed that this worship was not given by way of civil respect, for it was after he was parted from them, and carried back into heaven, that they offered it to him; but acts of civil respect are always performed in the presence of the person. They adored him as their God, and were certainly too much enlightened to be capable of any species of idolatry. Returned to Jerusalem with great joy – Having the fullest proof that Jesus was the promised Messiah; and that they had a full commission to preach repentance and remission of sin to mankind, and that they should be Divinely qualified for this great work by receiving the promise of the Father, Luke 24:49. Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible And they worshipped him,…. Not with a civil worship, as he was sometimes worshipped by men, in the days of his flesh, who, though they took him for some extraordinary person, knew him not to be the Son of God; but with religious worship as God: for by his resurrection from the dead, Christ was declared to be the Son of God, and both by that, and by his going to his Father, his ascension to heaven, the disciples were more confirmed in his proper deity, and divine sonship; and therefore worshipped him as God; by calling upon his name, ascribing blessings and honour, and glory, to him; by making him the object of their reverence and fear; and by trusting in him; and by doing every religious act in his name, and which they ever after continued to do: and returned to Jerusalem: as they were ordered, where they were to tarry and wait for the pouring down of the Spirit: and this they did with great joy; for though their Lord was parted from them, and was gone to heaven, this did not cause sorrow, as did his death, but, on the contrary, joy, even great joy; partly because of the glory he was entered into, and possessed of; and partly on account of what he was gone to do for them; to appear in the presence of God for them, to make intercession for them, to take possession of heaven in their name, and to prepare a place for them, as well as to receive gifts for them; and now they return to Jerusalem with great cheerfulness, in full hope and expectation, yea, assurance of faith, that they should shortly receive the promise of the Father. from: http://bible.cc/luke/24-52.htm I couldn't have said it better. Great post Kathi! Mike, I was just saying that if you read my post on the origins of the NWT, and who wrote it, it would explain my skepticism. It's like why when I need to quote scripture, I use that bible concordance, because if I used the Catholic bible (big c) One could easily and correctly state that it would be biased according to pre-concieved notions. Like, if you were anti-trinitarian, it would most certainly have an impact on how you translate……….But, my fellow bible scholar Kathi makes a very good point, you cant call worshiping a absent savior and christ” proskuneo “, and if your NWT uses the same term for that instance, wouldn't that cast doubt on your whole argument? There were many instances where the pharasees wanted to kill Jesus and couldn't and didn't. It wasn't because the correct hommage, proskuneo, or worship was observed, it was because it wasn't his time, as scripture states. Believe it or not, I really am trying to look at your arguement with an open mind. But as of now here are my major roadblocks: 1. He plainly states he is one with the Father “I and the Father are one”, “when you see me, you have seen the Father” 2. What Kathi just posted, that is worship, no matter the translation. 3. Why would Jesus say that sins against him and the Father could be forgiven, but that sins against the holy spirit could not?  “the word was a God” 4. Could the anti-Catholic (mostly well deserved) resentment among bible translators skew the intracate renderings of similar actions and feelings? 5. Knowing how false in structure and predictions the translators of the NWT were, why is it biggotry to you for me to doubt it? 6. The spirit- Explain how Jesus can be with me now and until the end of the world and be at the Fathers right hand at the same time? How do you reconcile that?    Now, to change the subject slightly. Lets look at worship/adoration/affection/proskuneo etc. righ t now. To expand the subject, worship also includes whatever you turn your attention and affection to. (4.  4extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem – )  You can claim to worship God, but if God or Godly things are not practiced in your life you do not even worship Jehova. If you say you love God, yet do not help those in need, you are a liar. If you give god kudos on here, and even go to church, but show little emotion, and then watch football, racing etc. all weekend and talk about it all week, Who do you worship?   I am about to go to church. When I get there their will be many cars with NFL logos on them, Kids soccer, hunting, Rock and roll band names, but no christian fish. WHO DO THEY WORSHIP?  Our country has evicted God out of Government, allowing many evils to become leagal, and honor all the founding fathers, Washington monument, Lincoln memorial, desacrating Mt. rushmore with Presidents, while at the same time removing anything that has to do with God,WHO DO THEY WORSHIP?  I went to drop my wife off at her friends house last night, and driving down Evils Prestly Blvd. there were the usual band of tourist from all over the country and world, with Evils impersonators walking on the sidewalk. with people saying ” There's the King”  WHO DO THEY WORSHIP?     It was written that I be Baptised in the name of the Father, and of the son, and of the holy spirit. True to my baptism, I also pray to them. I worship them. I long for them. Jesus is 'The King'. FULL authority has been granted to him. Also, as I stated before, you give Jesus as much credit as the muslims do. They say Jesus was a prophet, and aknowledge he did miracles and was born to a virgin, but deny he was God's literal son, with the Kingship and authority of the Father, worthy to be worshiped. Moo? Peace and Love -Mark

Thanks Mark!

[mikeboll64]

Kathi:

Quote

Mike, What do you mean that I can't refine the question?  I don't like your question, it is loaded and not an honest question.  I think civil worship vs. religious worship is much more clear to describe the differences of worship.

Hi Kathi,

Can you find me a lexicon or Greek dictionary that lists as definitions for proskuneo “civil worship” and “religious worship”?  I will stick to those lexicons that say it is either “worship” period, or that it is “doing obeisance” which is not any form of “worship” whatsoever.  I will never ” civil worship” Jesus or the 12 main ones who will rule with him.  I will do obeisance to them I'm sure, but I won't do anything that is called “worship” to them.  Any form of “worship” I give will be to Jehovah my God – just like Jesus taught us.

Kathi:

Quote

I noticed that you overlooked a simple word and I wonder why.  It seems deceitful but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

There was no deceit involved.  I just couldn't ask him which times were “worship” and which times were “obeisance” – so I'm glad you brought it up.  Which proskuneos in reference to Jesus were “worship” Kathi?  And how do you know?  I don't want your guesses either.  I want to know SCRIPTURALLY how you know a particular instance was “worship” instead of “obeisance”.

Kathi:

Quote

Also, I don't believe that Mark, Keith or I ever said that proskuneo was always religious worship.

That was Keith's big claim when he joined in the conversation Kathi – that there is NEVER a use of proskuneo in the NT that doesn't mean “worship”.

As far as Luke, look at NETNotes.  Tell me if you think the words imply that as Jesus was going up, they were bowing down.  Here is how the Message Version renders Luke 24:

50-51He then led them out of the city over to Bethany. Raising his hands he blessed them, and while blessing them, took his leave, being carried up to heaven.

52-53And they were on their knees, worshiping him. They returned to Jerusalem bursting with joy. They spent all their time in the Temple praising God. Yes.

I read this as, “As he was in the process of blessing them and being carried up to heaven, they were on their knees showing reverence as he went.  Then they went to Jerusalem.”

Now your turn.  Show me the SCRIPTURE that makes it clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that anyone actually “worshipped” Jesus at any time.  

Kathi, do you watch NFL Football?  When a coach throws a red flag challenge to the ref's call, they review the play in slow motion from many different camera angles to see if it really happened as they called it on the field.  But in order to overturn the ruling on the field, it must be abundantly and positively clear that the original ruling was flawed.  If they can't get a good enough camera angle that shows abundant and positively clear evidence of a bad call, the ruling on the field will always stand.

God is the referee that made the original ruling here.  Satan has thrown in the red challenge flag.  You are the line judge who is looking at all the footage in slow motion from all the camera angles.  You must be able to find ABUNDANT and POSITIVELY CLEAR footage in order to overturn God's original on the field ruling.  You are not allowed to just “guess” or “think” there may be something in one of the camera angles to overturn the ruling.  You must have ABUNDANT and POSITIVELY CLEAR information to overturn.  Do you have that Kathi?

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Nov. 22 2010,07:12)

I feel a bit more rested and less clouded as i have been for awile due to alot of circumstances.

Hey D,

I am truly happy to hear that.  Praise Jah!

And I know we got down to the nitty gritty about Micah 5, but this worship thing isn't so tough, is it?

God says to worship ONLY Him.
Jesus says to worship ONLY Jehovah your God.
Jesus says not one letter of the Law will pass away.
And Paul said he obeyed everything written in the Law and worshipped only the same God that his ancestors worshipped – it's just that he did it THROUGH Jesus, as we are taught.

So what's the dilemma here?

peace and love,
mike

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 22 2010,15:21)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 21 2010,15:11) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 22 2010,13:53) Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 21 2010,06:17) IMO the devil has really done a good job of screwing things up when I actually have people telling me it's wrong to worship Jesus. Yes Mark, He must increase and we must decrease…that was from John the Baptist. Kathi WE” are not John the baptist,what is that type of interpretation??? Pierre Pierre, John speaks for himself and says I must decrease but I put the 'we' in there because I can't think of any man that should be higher than Jesus.  Can you?

Kathi

it is the WE; that s the problem

Pierre

[terraricca]

Dennis

this is your request to me;;
You didnt Answer my questions.

So why should i answer yours?

You didnt understand what im trying to focus on, the inspiritation behind the writers is a Living God who at this very moment you can simply Ask him the Truth and he will give it to you.

The question is have you really asked?
and if you did, what did he say?

the Word is LIVING, what does that mean to you?

————–
Con Mucho Amor
(Romans 8:28 “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.” )

Dennison

this is the way i have seen it;

I am taking Gods word totaly as inspired,and so believe it to the words it self;
my prayer is to God to give me the understanding that he me to know,so that i can become what he expect of me.
but i read the scriptures not to just have a over view of it ,this will show that i really do not have much faith in God ,but i told you already that the word of God is to me the only truth,so my other prayer is to read the total of scriptures and ask him to engrave all of it in and on my hearth so that it can not be removed just as a permanent engravement if you try to remove it it breaks,
this i did like many years ago,

you ask me what the living word ,means to me?

wen i did all of that above ,i slowly begone to change ,from the inside out,the first thing i notice being working in construction very low language ,swearing ect.i realize that even being and discuss with the fellows i could not ear the bad part of there language,then i ask God for all things to honest i ask him for all i do,even now that i answer you,sometimes i have no clue what to answer and then i ask ,i know he will tell me .it is coming from that scriptures he hammered to my hearth,this is what i mean what living word does ,

Paul was not joking wen he said put on the clothing of the spirit.it is critical.

keep in mind God only works with what he has,if there is nothing that is his you have no fruit and are dead even you are living.

but if you put his words in your hearth and believe in them that you put your live on it.

i remember a little story about a man who is to cross the Niagara falls with a wheelbarrow and he ask a boy ,do you think i going to make it ?the boy answer him yes for sure ,and the man answer back to the boy well then jump in the wheelbarrow ,but the boy never did.

is you faith like the boy?

do not answer me ,but answer in your own hearth to God,

is this answer your question??

Pierre

[mikeangel]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 22 2010,05:09)

Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 21 2010,22:17) IMO the devil has really done a good job of screwing things up when I actually have people telling me it's wrong to worship Jesus. Hi Mark, And IMO, the Devil has done an excellent job in convincing people it's okay to worship someone other than Jehovah, when many scriptures, including one that Jesus himself quoted, say He is the ONLY One worthy of our worship. It's like I've told Kathi before:  Satan's goal is to separate people from God and get them to break His commandments.  He is smart and knows that he can't cause someone with as much faith as you have to break away from God's commands through the delusions of big bangs and evolution.  He knows he can't get you to worship Buddah or an idol.  So what's his best game plan then?  Convincing people that God would be “cool” with people worshipping someone other than Him – as long as that person is His Son. He is winning, and that, IMO, is the main reason WHY the narrow road has so few finding it. peace and love, mike

Mike,

You take a few scriptures of Jesus showing humility, and say he intended for us not to worship him. You mince translations and say the devil wants us to worship Jesus. Mike, you are sorely misled, either by yourself or someone else.  You, like many others, forsake common godsense for your own “knowledge”, and like I said reduce Jesus down to what the muslims credit him for- a prophet. You say you only worship Jehova, because Jesus said to only show worship to God, but ignore him when he also says the only way to the Father was and is through him. I gave you a definition of worship, here it is again in complete form:

.  1chiefly Britisha person of importance – used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)

2.  2reverence offered a divine being or supernatural poweralsoan act of expressing such reverence
3.  3a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual

4.  4extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem – ∼ of the dollar

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary copyright © 2010 by Merriam-Webster, incorporated

Now, paired with his titles I showed you from Isaiah, namely “Father-Forever,mighty God” He fits it all. Like I also showed you these days mostly everything else BUT Jesus is being worshiped. Most people worship themselves.  These define what was given to Jesus.

You asked me if Jesus knew he really was the Father, and I challanged you as to if you knew what he thought, and you correctly ignored the question. You also would not understand how he relates to the father, but it is explained and prophysied in the OT as the one to come to   rule, and he is the King, and since I already showed you how he remains with us in sprit until the end of the world (you couldn't explain that, you must agree) they, dare I say it, THE TRINITY OF GOD, deserve worship and will recieve it, now (bettter) , or later.

Sadly. as I also stated, the opposite to this is what is being worshiped. The 'stars' of hollywood have every move they make on the tabloids constantly, also tv. Its everywhere. I won't even get into r-n-r, most of you know what i think.  This is my point, it is worship, whatever commands your attention and affection, shown through your actions. No need to split translations. When those people were bowed down to Jesus not only were they “2reverence offered a divine being or supernatural poweralsoan act of expressing such reverence” but they loved him and believed in him, obtaining salvation.  You can worship your leaders, government, children, yourself, the devil by fostering hate etc. etc. by giving it your actions. I will give god  my heart, and pray he personally comes soon. Jehova is him, his son, and his spirit which is with us until the end, one God forever and ever and who is love. Godbless you Mike…….

[mikeangel]

52-53And they were on their knees, worshiping him. They returned to Jerusalem bursting with joy. They spent all their time in the Temple praising God. Yes.

I read this as, “As he was in the process of blessing them and being carried up to heaven, they were on their knees showing reverence as he went.  Then they went to Jerusalem.”

Now your turn.  Show me the SCRIPTURE that makes it clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that anyone actually “worshipped” Jesus at any time.  

” they were on their knees showing reverence as he went. “-Mikeboll

“2reverence offered a divine being or supernatural poweralsoan act of expressing such reverence”-Dictionary

Beyond a shadow of a doubt, by definition, you show it to yourself, and also refuse to believe.

Peace and love-Mark

“

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 23 2010,05:09)

52-53And they were on their knees, worshiping him. They returned to Jerusalem bursting with joy. They spent all their time in the Temple praising God. Yes. I read this as, “As he was in the process of blessing them and being carried up to heaven, they were on their knees showing reverence as he went.  Then they went to Jerusalem.” Now your turn.  Show me the SCRIPTURE that makes it clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that anyone actually “worshipped” Jesus at any time.   ” they were on their knees showing reverence as he went. “-Mikeboll “2reverence offered a divine being or supernatural poweralsoan act of expressing such reverence”-Dictionary Beyond a shadow of a doubt, by definition, you show it to yourself, and also refuse to believe. Peace and love-Mark “

Mike

that s the problem here you see scriptures by the apostles do not show that we have to or it is recommended to worship Jesus,even Jesus himself recommended to only worship his father,

and so for those who decide to worship him will have to answer to God ,not to men,

and so it is for those who have obeyed what it is said in scriptures.

Pierre

[mikeangel]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 23 2010,04:51)

Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 23 2010,05:09) 52-53And they were on their knees, worshiping him. They returned to Jerusalem bursting with joy. They spent all their time in the Temple praising God. Yes. I read this as, “As he was in the process of blessing them and being carried up to heaven, they were on their knees showing reverence as he went.  Then they went to Jerusalem.” Now your turn.  Show me the SCRIPTURE that makes it clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that anyone actually “worshipped” Jesus at any time.   ” they were on their knees showing reverence as he went. “-Mikeboll “2reverence offered a divine being or supernatural poweralsoan act of expressing such reverence”-Dictionary Beyond a shadow of a doubt, by definition, you show it to yourself, and also refuse to believe. Peace and love-Mark “ Mike that s the problem here you see scriptures by the apostles do not show that we have to or it is recommended to worship Jesus,even Jesus himself recommended to only worship his father, and so for those who decide to worship him will have to answer to God ,not to men, and so it is for those who have obeyed what it is said in scriptures. Pierre

Pierre,

You are not following the thread. The issue at hand is were these and others in the gospels worshiping Jesus. This is one instance that cannot be misinterpreted as not being worshiped. To counter this, you would have to #1 change the gospel, or #2, change the meaning or definition of worship.

Jesus was and is Lord, Mighty God,Father Forever, deserving worship. Peace-Mark

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 23 2010,14:40)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 23 2010,04:51) Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 23 2010,05:09) 52-53And they were on their knees, worshiping him. They returned to Jerusalem bursting with joy. They spent all their time in the Temple praising God. Yes. I read this as, “As he was in the process of blessing them and being carried up to heaven, they were on their knees showing reverence as he went.  Then they went to Jerusalem.” Now your turn.  Show me the SCRIPTURE that makes it clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that anyone actually “worshipped” Jesus at any time.   ” they were on their knees showing reverence as he went. “-Mikeboll “2reverence offered a divine being or supernatural poweralsoan act of expressing such reverence”-Dictionary Beyond a shadow of a doubt, by definition, you show it to yourself, and also refuse to believe. Peace and love-Mark “ Mike that s the problem here you see scriptures by the apostles do not show that we have to or it is recommended to worship Jesus,even Jesus himself recommended to only worship his father, and so for those who decide to worship him will have to answer to God ,not to men, and so it is for those who have obeyed what it is said in scriptures. Pierre Pierre, You are not following the thread. The issue at hand is were these and others in the gospels worshiping Jesus. This is one instance that cannot be misinterpreted as not being worshiped. To counter this, you would have to #1 change the gospel, or #2, change the meaning or definition of worship. Jesus was and is Lord, Mighty God,Father Forever, deserving worship. Peace-Mark

Mark

i see what you mean,but there was never a teaching of worship Christ,#2 it written to worship God alone,#3 Jesus personally says to worship the father only,

those are deductions ;those are written orders,

yours are deductions ,do you trust your live on deductions,sorry not me ,i learn not to assume things for what it could be or not and especially wen there are written scriptures,

just remember that we all will face the tribunal of Christ for our own decisions,so it is our responsibility to make sure of what we do or not do.

Pierre

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