Worship God the Father only?

[942767]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 16 2010,14:40)

Marty and Pierre, Good verses Marty!  However there are several on here that think that if the word means kneeling down in front of, or bowing dow to, or doing obeisance then that would be ok to do to other gods.  No matter how you translate it, when it is an act of religious worship as opposed to civil worship you may not do this to other gods…but this religious honor was done before Jesus many times after He performed a miracle, who is a mighty God and there is acceptance by Jesus and commends their faith.  That should tell those here that worry about what word is intended; bow down, kneel before, obeisance, worship, etc. when it is given to THIS mighty God, Jesus, He is not to be included in the 'other gods' intent of the first commandment and must be included in honoring the Lord God part of the commandment.   If you don't understand how, then let it be a mystery, or at least keep an open heart about it. I have shown that all kings on earth will proskuneo the Messiah and all the Gentiles will serve Him.  Marty has given very good verses above in his last post.

Hi Kathi:

Jesus is the King of Kings, and so we bow to him out of our deep reverence for him, and out of thanksgiving for what he has done for us in order that we might be reconciled to God. He said that we should honor him as we honor the Father. It is our Father who sent him, and so it is God speaking to humanity through him.

He is a “man” and not God. The scriptures state that “his name” shall be called “mighty god”. He is the “express image of God's person”, and so this “his name” speaks to his character as manifested by his life of obedience to God's Word.

No, Kathi, he is not a begotten God. There is only “One God”. He made man in “His own image” and we are partakers of His divine nature.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 18 2010,05:34)

Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 17 2010,05:00) Marty, You posted a scripture where the angels worshiped Jesus. I don't believe I ever got your response to my question. Do you worship Jesus? Peace-Mark Marty, I am curious to your response on this also. Thanks!

Hi Kathi and Mark:

I thought I had already answered this, but somehow, I can't seem to find my response to this question from Mark.

Jesus said that I should honor him as I honor the Father, and he said “if you love me keep my commandments”, but he has made it clear that he is not my God by saying:

Quote

17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them,I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

And so, I do not worship him as God.  When he was tempted by Satan who wanted Jesus to worship him, he said:

Matthew 4:9And saith unto him(Jesus), All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Kathi:

Jesus is my Lord, and so, as the word “worship” applies to someone of superior rank, then I would “worship” him as he is the King of Kings, and the Lord of lords, but not as God.  When I obey him, I am obeying God.

Quote

Lexicon Results Strong's G4352 – proskyneō προσκυνέω Transliteration proskyneō Pronunciation pros-kü-ne'-ō (Key) Part of Speech verb Root Word (Etymology) From πρός (G4314) and a probable derivative of κύων (G2965) (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand) TDNT Reference 6:758,948 Vines View Entry Outline of Biblical Usage 1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence 2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence 3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank 1) to the Jewish high priests 2) to God 3) to Christ 4) to heavenly beings 5) to demons

And yes, Kathi, it can apply to other gods as well, but God did not tell me that I should confess any one but Jesus as Lord as His representative.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Baker]

Quote (OneDay @ Nov. 18 2010,06:26)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 16 2010,19:46) Welcome Joanna. Jesus told us to worship the Father.  It is who we have religious faith in as our Lord that should get our worship.  The Father is Lord, Jesus is Lord, not two from different essences but the same essence.  Let your faith lead you in how you respond and understand the idea of worship. No one has to tell people to worship money…it is something within us that leads us towards who we are religiously devoted to, some are motivated by spiritual faith, some are motivated by flesh. There are vast examples of the Messiah receiving worship and commending those followers for their 'faith in the NT,' the emphasis is not on commending those for their obedience when they bowed down to Him, it was for their faith. There are also passages in the OT that illustrates worship or religious bowing down to the Messiah.  The Father and the Son are both of one and the same essence.  Jesus said that if you believe in the Father, believe also in Him. I hope you enjoy it here.  Tell us about how you found Heaven Net. Blessings to you, Kathi/Lightenup/LU HI ! You said……………………………..The Father is Lord, Jesus is Lord………………………………..Are you a oneness believer ? Well Me –  I believe The Father is Almighty God (translated as LORD in the Holy Bible), while Jesus is the Son of Almighty God (translated as Lord in the Holy Bible) Jesus the only begotten Son of God conceived of teh Holy Spirit, Jesus who came from Heaven, Jesus who revealed the Father, Then returned to the Father. And is to return again………………….. Worship is for the Father Almighty God as Jesus said….. Thanks………………………………. ~JO~

Welcome ! You are absolutely right to worship Almighty God only. There are several Scriptures that teach us that….Keep up the good work….. God deserves all worship, while Jesus deserves honor as King of Kings and Lord of Lords….Peace Irene

[mikeangel]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 18 2010,05:24)

Quote (Baker @ Nov. 17 2010,01:10) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 17 2010,15:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 16 2010,22:25) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 17 2010,14:15) Mike what intense feelings Kathi has, not to want to obey Christ and God s words. i is amazing it is an obsession,i wander what make her do that?? it is not the truth that s for sure, God can not go against is own words. Pierre I know Pierre.  And she thinks she is serving God and His Son BETTER by worshipping two as “God” – against many scriptures.  What was it that Jo just posted? JO: Quote Nadab and Abihu offered incense, but God destroyed them: “Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them. So fire went out from the LORD and devoured them, and they died before the LORD” (Leviticus 10:1,2). Kathi, can you see how God reacts to people going against His commands – even if their intentions are good?  What about poor Uzzah, who died for trying to stabilize the ark? Hey Pierre, I think I'm going to like this JO person. peace and love, mike I believe those who worship the Father and the Son will be reckoned to them as righteousness and having great faith.  You don't have this faith yet, that's all, most here don't…most in church do. Pray that the Lord increases your faith to understand. Kathi!  You got to be kidding me, most Churches do?  I don't think so.  Most Churches believe in  the trinity,.  That is  man a mad doctrine and not of God.  Just like the doctrine that mkost have i those Churches that sing and worship Jesus.  There are enough Scriptures that say not to do that.  Yet you find it right to do?  You have fallen prey to those Churches, unfortunately….Now you even think it is OK????No my friend it is not….And I don't care what any men will say.  I don't care what any fore Fathers did….Scriptures say not to…..That is what counts and not any man. Mat 15:9   But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.   Take heed, and do not follow men, but God…. .Peace Irene Irene, Read these slowly it will be a good exercise for you.  Pay attention to Jesus commending people for their faith. And here is a list of passages that show that Jesus is receiving the worship “proskuneo” of others: Matt 2:1-2 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. KJV Matt 2:7-8 7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, inquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. 8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also. KJV Matt 2:11-12 11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. 12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way. KJV Matt 8:1-4 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. 2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them. KJV Matt 9:18-35 18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.19 And Jesus arose, and followed him, and so did his disciples.20 And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:21 For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.23 And when Jesus came into the ruler's house, and saw the minstrels and the people making a noise,24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.25 But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.26 And the fame hereof went abroad into all that land.27 And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have mercy on us.28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.30 And their eyes were opened; and Jesus straitly charged them, saying, See that no man know it.31 But they, when they were departed, spread abroad his fame in all that country.32 As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil.33 And when the devil was cast out, the dumb spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel.34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils.35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people. KJV Matt 14:26-36 26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear. 27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. 28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. 29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. 31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? 32 And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased. 33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. 34 And when they were gone over, they came into the land of Gennesaret. 35 And when the men of that place had knowledge of him, they sent out into all that country round about, and brought unto him all that were diseased; 36 And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment: and as many as touched were made perfectly whole. KJV Matt 15:21-28 21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. 27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. 28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour. KJV Matt 20:20-28 20 Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. 21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. 22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. 24 And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren. 25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. KJV Matt 28:8-10 8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word. 9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him. 10 Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me. KJV Matt 28:16-20 16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.   KJV Mark 5:1-20 5 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.14 And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.16 And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine.17 And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts.18 And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.19 Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.20 And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel. KJV Luke 24:44 – 53 44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things. 49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. 50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. 51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. 52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: 53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen. John 9:30-39 30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes. 31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. 32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind. 33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing. 34 They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out. 35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 37 And Jesus said unto him, T hou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. 39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. KJV Heb 1:6 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. KJV THe point of this exercise was to demonstrate that the people were recognizing Jesus as coming from God and able to do the supernatural acts…they were seeing Him as a KING from heaven and not just another earthly king and they were responding in worship towards Him.  He never told them that they were violating the first commandment, not once. Jesus is to be worshiped WITH His Father, the only true God.  They are together divine. It is faith that will bring the response of worship to the Father and the Son, Irene, you can see that here. I think you are seeing through anti-trinitarian vision and the anti-trinity position has become like an idol to you and that is maybe what keeps you from growing in your faith here.  Ask the Lord to build your faith so that one day you will understand and bow down to Jesus as Lord and Saviour to the Glory of the Father.

What some are saying is that these people were wrong to worship Jesus. Even though these are many examples of biblical people worshiping Jesus yall seem to know better than they do from your special insight, reasonings, rationales, intrepretations and spins. But these people WORSHIPED Jesus. Its states it very plainly to anyone with the discernment of a cow. Mooooooo

[terraricca]

Mark

JN 9:30 The man answered and said to them, “Well, here is an amazing thing, that you do not know where He is from, and yet He opened my eyes.
JN 9:31 “We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him.
JN 9:32 “ Since the beginning of time it has never been heard that anyone opened the eyes of a person born blind.
JN 9:33 “ If this man were not from God, He could do nothing.”JN 9:17 So they *said to the blind man again, “What do you say about Him, since He opened your eyes?” And he said, “He is a prophet.”

Jesus was recognize by most as the messiah not God, a prophet,so he was honored as one,and thats the truth.the ones who really knew him his apostles learn that he was the son of God, but the rest of them did not learn it from Jesus,but from the apostles,

so all the kneeling and the honors were never Acts of worship,

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 17 2010,15:14)

Mike or Pierre, Show me one scripture where someone worshipped Jesus and God, the Father got mad at them and punished them.  Show me one prophecy where this was to happen and make sure that Jesus/the Son of God/the Messiah is specifically identified.  Or, stop all the hot air and accusations.

No Kathi,

I've showed you more than enough. I've been researching and sharing that research with you about this subject for almost a year now.

You go ahead and worship Jesus. I will worship his God.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 18 2010,11:35)

What some are saying is that these people were wrong to worship Jesus. Even though these are many examples of biblical people worshiping Jesus yall seem to know better than they do from your special insight, reasonings, rationales, intrepretations and spins. But these people WORSHIPED Jesus. Its states it very plainly to anyone with the discernment of a cow. Mooooooo

Hi Mark,

Here's some info you maybe weren't aware of.

Proskuneo
1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and
touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound
reverence
3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make
obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
  3a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
     3a1) to the Jewish high priests
     3a2) to God
     3a3) to Christ
     3a4) to heavenly beings
     3a5) to demons

The word used in all of Kathi's scriptures is “proskuneo”.  You can read above the many meanings of it.  Just because trinitarian biased translators render this word as “worship” in reference to Jesus when is should be “did obeisance”, does not mean Jesus was ever worshipped.

Did you know the LXX is the Greek version of the Hebrew OT?  Did you know they also used this word “proskuneo”?  Here's a couple of examples:

2 Kings 2:15 NIV
The company of the prophets from Jericho, who were watching, said, “The spirit of Elijah is resting on Elisha.” And they went to meet him and bowed to the ground before him.

2 Samuel 1:2 NIV
2 On the third day a man arrived from Saul’s camp with his clothes torn and dust on his head. When he came to David, he fell to the ground to pay him honor.

So Mark, use your own “discernment of a cow” here.  Were Elisha and David being “worshipped” as if they were God, or just honored?

Do you understand the word could mean either?  Do you understand that in each and every instance that you read about Jesus being “worshipped”, it could honestly be translated as “did obeisance to him” or “honored him”?

Now that you have the facts, apply them.  

One one occasion, this “worship” of Jesus took place right in front of a group of Pharisees who were looking for reason to have Jesus killed.  Yet they said nothing about the “worship”, but instead asked him some other questions after the man was done “worshipping” him.  Does it make sense to you that the religiously strict Pharisees would say nothing about a man “worshipping” Jesus right in front of them?

God said to worship HIM ONLY.  Jesus said to worship GOD ONLY.  But is Jesus this “God” who alone is worthy of our worship?  Let's see, Jesus said this particular God was “our God AND his God”.  He called him “my God” five times in the Book of Revelation.  Jesus told us that He was the “only true God”.

Like I told Kathi, worship Jesus against the command of God if you want to.  I will only worship the One Jesus taught us to worship.  I will worship the One who is not only my God, but also Jesus' God.

Mark, did you ever wonder how the NT writers knew about Satan tempting Christ in the wilderness?  None of them were there personally, so how did they know the story?

Jesus obviously told them, right?  What lesson do you think they learned from this story that Jesus told them?  When he responded to Satan that the scriptures say to worship Jehovah your God and serve Him ONLY, do you think the disciples would have taken that to mean “worship Jehovah your God and serve Him only…….oh, and Jesus too”?

Use your “cow discernment” for this one buddy.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeangel]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 18 2010,13:12)

Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 18 2010,11:35) What some are saying is that these people were wrong to worship Jesus. Even though these are many examples of biblical people worshiping Jesus yall seem to know better than they do from your special insight, reasonings, rationales, intrepretations and spins. But these people WORSHIPED Jesus. Its states it very plainly to anyone with the discernment of a cow. Mooooooo Hi Mark, Here's some info you maybe weren't aware of. Proskuneo 1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence 2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence 3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication   3a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank      3a1) to the Jewish high priests      3a2) to God      3a3) to Christ      3a4) to heavenly beings      3a5) to demons The word used in all of Kathi's scriptures is “proskuneo”.  You can read above the many meanings of it.  Just because trinitarian biased translators render this word as “worship” in reference to Jesus when is should be “did obeisance”, does not mean Jesus was ever worshipped. Did you know the LXX is the Greek version of the Hebrew OT?  Did you know they also used this word “proskuneo”?  Here's a couple of examples: 2 Kings 2:15 NIV The company of the prophets from Jericho, who were watching, said, “The spirit of Elijah is resting on Elisha.” And they went to meet him and bowed to the ground before him. 2 Samuel 1:2 NIV 2 On the third day a man arrived from Saul’s camp with his clothes torn and dust on his head. When he came to David, he fell to the ground to pay him honor. So Mark, use your own “discernment of a cow” here.  Were Elisha and David being “worshipped” as if they were God, or just honored? Do you understand the word could mean either?  Do you understand that in each and every instance that you read about Jesus being “worshipped”, it could honestly be translated as “did obeisance to him” or “honored him”? Now that you have the facts, apply them.   One one occasion, this “worship” of Jesus took place right in front of a group of Pharisees who were looking for reason to have Jesus killed.  Yet they said nothing about the “worship”, but instead asked him some other questions after the man was done “worshipping” him.  Does it make sense to you that the religiously strict Pharisees would say nothing about a man “worshipping” Jesus right in front of them? God said to worship HIM ONLY.  Jesus said to worship GOD ONLY.  But is Jesus this “God” who alone is worthy of our worship?  Let's see, Jesus said this particular God was “our God AND his God”.  He called him “my God” five times in the Book of Revelation.  Jesus told us that He was the “only true God”. Like I told Kathi, worship Jesus against the command of God if you want to.  I will only worship the One Jesus taught us to worship.  I will worship the One who is not only my God, but also Jesus' God. Mark, did you ever wonder how the NT writers knew about Satan tempting Christ in the wilderness?  None of them were there personally, so how did they know the story? Jesus obviously told them, right?  What lesson do you think they learned from this story that Jesus told them?  When he responded to Satan that the scriptures say to worship Jehovah your God and serve Him ONLY, do you think the disciples would have taken that to mean “worship Jehovah your God and serve Him only…….oh, and Jesus too”? Use your “cow discernment” for this one buddy. peace and love, mike

Jesus was begotten by God “This day I have begotten you” Moooooo

He was born of a virgin, and not just a prophet. He literally was God's son. Even the muslims aknowedge him as a prophet and not gods son. It is written on the dome of the rock “allah has no sons”. You give him as much credit as they do. Mooooo

As I stated, you can twist and turn and mince translations you want to, Jesus is Lord. You will worship him one day weather you want to or not. Mooooo

They were worshiping the spirit of God, not Elisha. Also the spirit of God in David, who could do nothing in himself but only with Gods sprit.Moooooo

You can second guess the writers of the bible. I will accept it as Gods word to me. Mooooo

Peace and love- Mark

[mikeangel]

Isaiah 45:22 “?Turn to me and be safe, all you ends of the earth, for I AM GOD; there is no other! By myself I swear, uttering my just decree and my UNALTERABLE word: TO ME EVERY KNEE SHALL BEND; BY ME EVERY TOUNGE SHALL SWEAR, saying ,”only in the Lord are just deeds and power”.” (emphasis added)

Romans 14:11 “It is written,” As surely as I live, says the Lord,every knee shall bend before me and tounge shall give praise TO GOD.” (emphasis added)

Philippians 2:9 Because of this, God highly exalted him and bestowed on him the nome above every other name, So that at JESUS' name EVERY KNEE MUST BEND in the heavens, on the earth, and under the earth, and tounge proclaim to the glory of God the Father: JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!” (emphasis added)

Exodus 34:5 “Having come down in a cloud, the Lord stood with him there and Proclaimed HIS NAME,”LORD”.”

Mark says “Jesus Christ is Lord, He is my king, He is ' The King '. Mooooooooooo!

[Lightenup]

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 17 2010,16:51)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 16 2010,14:40) Marty and Pierre, Good verses Marty!  However there are several on here that think that if the word means kneeling down in front of, or bowing dow to, or doing obeisance then that would be ok to do to other gods.  No matter how you translate it, when it is an act of religious worship as opposed to civil worship you may not do this to other gods…but this religious honor was done before Jesus many times after He performed a miracle, who is a mighty God and there is acceptance by Jesus and commends their faith.  That should tell those here that worry about what word is intended; bow down, kneel before, obeisance, worship, etc. when it is given to THIS mighty God, Jesus, He is not to be included in the 'other gods' intent of the first commandment and must be included in honoring the Lord God part of the commandment.   If you don't understand how, then let it be a mystery, or at least keep an open heart about it. I have shown that all kings on earth will proskuneo the Messiah and all the Gentiles will serve Him.  Marty has given very good verses above in his last post. Hi Kathi: Jesus is the King of Kings, and so we bow to him out of our deep reverence for him, and out of thanksgiving for what he has done for us in order that we might be reconciled to God.  He said that we should honor him as we honor the Father.  It is our Father who sent him, and so it is God speaking to humanity through him. He is a “man” and not God.  The scriptures state that “his name” shall be called “mighty god”.  He is the “express image of God's person”, and so this “his name” speaks to his character as manifested by his life of obedience to God's Word. No, Kathi, he is not a begotten God.  There is only “One God”. He made man in “His own image” and we are partakers of His divine nature. Love in Christ, Marty

Hi Marty,
I believe that it takes faith to see Jesus as the Messiah from God and it takes more faith to see Jesus as literally existing before He became flesh and even more faith to believe that He is just like the Father in every way except He is not the Father. So maybe that is all we are dealing with…God building our faith as we open up to more truths about His Son.

We all need to keep growing in the faith that God gives us and be open to what He wants to reveal to us next…

Do you honor Jesus for what He has done or for who He is? I feel like many on here, once they see the Father and are completely 'returned' to Him will have no special need for Jesus and He will become just another brother.

You say there is only One God and I agree but I believe that One God begat a Son who is like Him so that would make, still One God as in 'unbegotten' and One God as in 'begotten.' Both sharing one nature like you and your child share one nature. The begotten is not the unbegotten but nevertheless is the same nature as the unbegotten.

Thanks for your answer Marty!

[Lightenup]

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 17 2010,17:13)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 18 2010,05:34) Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 17 2010,05:00) Marty, You posted a scripture where the angels worshiped Jesus. I don't believe I ever got your response to my question. Do you worship Jesus? Peace-Mark Marty, I am curious to your response on this also. Thanks! Hi Kathi and Mark: I thought I had already answered this, but somehow, I can't seem to find my response to this question from Mark. Jesus said that I should honor him as I honor the Father, and he said “if you love me keep my commandments”, but he has made it clear that he is not my God by saying: Quote 17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them,I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. And so, I do not worship him as God.  When he was tempted by Satan who wanted Jesus to worship him, he said: Matthew 4:9And saith unto him(Jesus), All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,
Does the Father worship Himself? Would Jesus worship Himself? Why would Jesus tell satan that He is only going to worship the Father and Himself. People don't give worship to themselves, do you think?

[Lightenup]

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 17 2010,17:29)

Kathi: Jesus is my Lord, and so, as the word “worship” applies to someone of superior rank, then I would “worship” him as he is the King of Kings, and the Lord of lords, but not as God.  When I obey him, I am obeying God. Quote Lexicon Results Strong's G4352 – proskyneō προσκυνέω Transliteration proskyneō Pronunciation pros-kü-ne'-ō (Key) Part of Speech verb Root Word (Etymology) From πρός (G4314) and a probable derivative of κύων (G2965) (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand) TDNT Reference 6:758,948 Vines View Entry Outline of Biblical Usage 1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence 2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence 3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank 1) to the Jewish high priests 2) to God 3) to Christ 4) to heavenly beings 5) to demons And yes, Kathi, it can apply to other gods as well, but God did not tell me that I should confess any one but Jesus as Lord as His representative. Love in Christ, Marty

But Marty,
Do you see that Jesus is just God's representative to you? Who does Jesus become to you when you are in the Father's presence for eternity. Will Jesus just be the one that got you to that point and then there will be no need to have your focus on Christ or follow Him?

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 19 2010,13:50)

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 17 2010,17:13) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 18 2010,05:34) mikeangel,Nov. wrote: Marty, You posted a scripture where the angels worshiped Jesus. I don't believe I ever got your response to my question. Do you worship Jesus? Peace-Mark Marty, I am curious to your response on this also. Thanks! Hi Kathi and Mark: I thought I had already answered this, but somehow, I can't seem to find my response to this question from Mark. Jesus said that I should honor him as I honor the Father, and he said “if you love me keep my commandments”, but he has made it clear that he is not my God by saying: Quote 17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them,I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. And so, I do not worship him as God.  When he was tempted by Satan who wanted Jesus to worship him, he said: Quote Matthew 4:9And saith unto him(Jesus), All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Love in Christ, Marty Marty, Does the Father worship Himself?  Would Jesus worship Himself?  Why would Jesus tell satan that He is only going to worship the Father and Himself.  People don't give worship to themselves, do you think?

Kathi

we know that your God is not Christ God;
Thou shalt worship the Lord THY God, and HIM ONLY shalt thou serve,

YOU HAVE YOUR OWN SPECIAL ONE OUT THERE

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
Do you not serve Christ?

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 19 2010,13:59)

Pierre, Do you not serve Christ?

Kathi

what Christ says is to serve his father just like he did,that is why he gives his live ,so we would beable to serve God the father of Christ,this is what reconciliation means,

but the reconciliation is with the Father,Christ being the means to access that reconciliation.

and i will always honor Christ with my hearth ,and only worship his father as he as told me.

Pierre

[OneDay]

Hello.

We MUST obey God.

If Jesus says you MUST, then you MUST………………………….

1. Love God

2. Love one another

First is true repentance. When we repent of sin, we are deeply sorrowfull for having transgressed God’s law……………………. We no longer have a hostile attitude toward God and Have respect and obediance. We no longer have a carnal attitude that is enmity………………………….. After repentance, we are in harmony with God’s law of love………………………………… Repentance brings a deep change in our thinking, and a commitment to live by every word of God. As Jesus said: “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word” (Luke 4:4).

Peace~Joanna.

[Lightenup]

But Pierre,
Christ says to worship His Father, true and to serve His Father, true but He tells Peter to feed HIS sheep, He doesn't say to feed His Father's sheep but His sheep. I think we should be just as motivated to serve the Son alone as we are to serve the Father alone. Do you serve the Son because of the glory it gives to the Father or do you serve the Son because of the glory it gives the Son or both reasons?

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 19 2010,14:31)

But Pierre, Christ says to worship His Father, true and to serve His Father, true but He tells Peter to feed HIS sheep, He doesn't say to feed His Father's sheep but His sheep.  I think we should be just as motivated to serve the Son alone as we are to serve the Father alone.  Do you serve the Son because of the glory it gives to the Father or do you serve the Son because of the glory it gives the Son or both reasons?

Kathi

God is God,he has send his son to us so that we may be reconciled with him,so his son is the true shepherd,and anyone that comes to God comes trough Christ and so they are his sheep because the father has given those to him,

look it this way;Christ is the manager working for God the owner of all things,the workers are the sheep's,they do work for the Boss don't they????but they also working for and with the manager don't they???
do you have to give the same honor to the Boss than you give to the manager,????is the manager did not received his position from the Boss?

now if the manager gives some of his duties to some of his subordinates by telling them to look after the workers, were is your problem with that??

Pierre

[shimmer]

Quote (OneDay @ Nov. 19 2010,09:20)

Hello. We MUST obey God. If Jesus says you MUST, then you MUST…………………………. 1. Love God 2. Love one another First is true repentance. When we repent of sin, we are deeply sorrowfull for having transgressed God’s law……………………. We no longer have a hostile attitude toward God and Have respect and obediance. We no longer have a carnal attitude that is enmity………………………….. After repentance, we are in harmony with God’s law of love………………………………… Repentance brings a deep change in our thinking, and a commitment to live by every word of God. As Jesus said: “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word” (Luke 4:4). Peace~Joanna.

Joanna, True.

Repentance and Obediance the two most important things, so long as it is genuine.  

Many criminals can be sorry, crying in tears, sorry for getting caught, sorry for the guilt theyre feeling, sorry for having to suffer the penalty of their crime.

People can be sorry to get what they want….”sorry dear wife, I never meant that, please stay with me, dont leave me!”  Only to repeat it again later. A child in tears sorry for what they have done……….sorry because they have been grounded !

Godly sorrow and true repentance however is deeper. It is remorsefull and true. The repentant heart sees what they have done wrong and knows to change and to not do it again, to put in the effort and ask God to help them achieve this.

True repentance is felt, and dramatic longlasting changes will be seen, permanant changes.

Thanks Joanna for that .

[Author]

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