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Then you are in conflict with scripture. As stated above, Jesus said to worship God alone, as did the Angel in Revalations. If Jesus is not God then you are in conflict with scripture as it is written. We can go round and round and I know it won't change either of our minds. Also as you stated, you worship the spirit, also conflicting with that. My understanding does not come out of a hat, it comes from his sprit, the part of him that is with me. Jesus is not here yet, yet he said he would be here until the end of the age. That came at pentacost and is with us now. Not Just his fathers sprit, his also. The guidance of the holy sprit you speak of, is it only from the father? How is Jesus with us as he said until the end? Are they not in and through each other, one God forever and ever? If God is one and you are to adore and worship only him, as stated in scripture, and he is separate from the son and spirit, how can you worship them as you stated? You contradict yourself. Thats not out of a hat, its from your fingers……Peace-Mark
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 14 2010,13:58) Mark,
So how is it that the Word that is God and became flesh says that He did not send Himself? And prays to the Father 'in Heaven?'John 8:42
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
NASU
By the way, this is because he was giving us example of total obedience to God. Even though he was god, he was humble and obedient completely, like we are suppose to be. When he was perfected, and died, I do not understand the rest or how he can be his son and the father as he said, and be with us in sprit until the end like he said. Also did not Mary concieve by the power of the holy spirit? Would that make the spirit his father? Can you show where Mary did not concieve from the spirit, but by God, because you separate the three. If God is Jesus' Father and Mary concieved with the holy spirit ,which is separate as you say, you contradict yourself there too. I trust that one day I will understand completely, but unlike some I cannot pretend to understand or define God. As of now the way I see it they are of one accord. PeaceQuote (mikeangel @ Nov. 14 2010,15:46) We cannot comprehend it (seriously), and anyone who claims to is fooling themselves IMO.Mark
Hi Mark. I have to agree with you here…people think they figure it all out, Question..analyze God…they still havent figured out loving their neighbour, they still cant forgive, they still cant accept others..As I always say, without love they have nothing, they dont see, they are blind, though they think theyre not. God truely is beyond our understanding.Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 14 2010,21:01) Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 14 2010,15:46) We cannot comprehend it (seriously), and anyone who claims to is fooling themselves IMO.Mark
Hi Mark. I have to agree with you here…people think they figure it all out, Question..analyze God…they still havent figured out loving their neighbour, they still cant forgive, they still cant accept others..As I always say, without love they have nothing, they dont see, they are blind, though they think theyre not. God truely is beyond our understanding.
shimmer, you are right on here. Without Love you are nothing. In fact it is the great Commandment to Love God and Love your neighbor as yourself….We have fantastic neighbors….Not everyone is as fortunate as we though….some will talk about you behind your back. We had such neighbors before we moved here. In spite of that I tried to do my best to love them. They sometimes turn a leaf when you pray for them…Some moved away and the one still remained turned a leaf…So many look at the outside of a man, what they possess, their car, their cloth etc. that is the world today…..Rev. tells us
“Come out of her My People.” Be in the world but not of the world….Today money talks….Peace IreneMark! I do know that Jesus is God. However He is not Almighty God. There are several Scriptures that tells me that God is above all. This is by Jesus own words in
Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.
Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:
To worship Jesus is a direct wrong against the first Commandment… To Love Thy God only…..
These Scriptures also show that the trinity is wrong….the trinity is a man made doctrine and not of God….
It was Quintus Septimus Florence Tertullian who first came up with it in the third century….And it was Constantine who in AD325 calls the firstecumentical council at Nicea, and esides all mother dfocrine mad the trinity into Law….
That is why I can say it is a man made doctrine.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
One more thing. When in the Old Testament it says LORD it always is speaking of Almighty God, while in the New Testament it says Lord and that is Jesus our Lord.
Mark, I am saying all these things in Love and I would love to see all Humans come to the understanding of the Word of God the Bible….maybe not today yet, but one day soon when Christ returns only the truth will be taught. To that day I am forever looking forward to….God may grant me to ve thee. If not, I will sleep in the grave until all is fulfilled….May God be with you, Irene
Quote (Baker @ Nov. 14 2010,23:53) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 14 2010,21:01) Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 14 2010,15:46) We cannot comprehend it (seriously), and anyone who claims to is fooling themselves IMO.Mark
Hi Mark. I have to agree with you here…people think they figure it all out, Question..analyze God…they still havent figured out loving their neighbour, they still cant forgive, they still cant accept others..As I always say, without love they have nothing, they dont see, they are blind, though they think theyre not. God truely is beyond our understanding.
shimmer, you are right on here. Without Love you are nothing. In fact it is the great Commandment to Love God and Love your neighbor as yourself….We have fantastic neighbors….Not everyone is as fortunate as we though….some will talk about you behind your back. We had such neighbors before we moved here. In spite of that I tried to do my best to love them. They sometimes turn a leaf when you pray for them…Some moved away and the one still remained turned a leaf…So many look at the outside of a man, what they possess, their car, their cloth etc. that is the world today…..Rev. tells us
“Come out of her My People.” Be in the world but not of the world….Today money talks….Peace Irene
Irene, I see it here. People who have God under a microscope….searching everywhere to try and discover Who God is, Who the son is, but failing to find out What God wants, What the son wants, Which is simple… Love God, Love neighbour. Who is a neighbour ? Anyone we talk to, anyone we walk past, anyone on here is a neighbour. They dont see this though. Only those doing the will of The Father will enter heaven it says. The will of God is to love. Mark has love, You have love Irene. And others here too. But some dont. There is love there is hate and there is no in between. IMO.Mark! I just read the last post that you made to me, I am sorry that you think that I am bombarding you about the trinity. Why do you feel that way? I am telling you the truth. Don't you think when you see your Brethren going wrong that you should say something to Him or Her? Unfortunately some are so set in their ways that they will never do what Scriptures say in
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
God not only said to Love Him, but also said that we should obey Him. The first Commandment is a direct disagreement to worship Jesus. Yes, Jesus and God Almighty are one in Heart and Mind, which we also should be….that does not mean now that we can go against what else He told us to do…
Take care, I will not bother you again…Peace and Love Irene.
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 14 2010,22:34) Quote (Baker @ Nov. 14 2010,23:53) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 14 2010,21:01) Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 14 2010,15:46) We cannot comprehend it (seriously), and anyone who claims to is fooling themselves IMO.Mark
Hi Mark. I have to agree with you here…people think they figure it all out, Question..analyze God…they still havent figured out loving their neighbour, they still cant forgive, they still cant accept others..As I always say, without love they have nothing, they dont see, they are blind, though they think theyre not. God truely is beyond our understanding.
shimmer, you are right on here. Without Love you are nothing. In fact it is the great Commandment to Love God and Love your neighbor as yourself….We have fantastic neighbors….Not everyone is as fortunate as we though….some will talk about you behind your back. We had such neighbors before we moved here. In spite of that I tried to do my best to love them. They sometimes turn a leaf when you pray for them…Some moved away and the one still remained turned a leaf…So many look at the outside of a man, what they possess, their car, their cloth etc. that is the world today…..Rev. tells us
“Come out of her My People.” Be in the world but not of the world….Today money talks….Peace Irene
Irene, I see it here. People who have God under a microscope….searching everywhere to try and discover Who God is, Who the son is, but failing to find out What God wants, What the son wants, Which is simple… Love God, Love neighbour. Who is a neighbour ? Anyone we talk to, anyone we walk past, anyone on here is a neighbour. They dont see this though. Only those doing the will of The Father will enter heaven it says. The will of God is to love. Mark has love, You have love Irene. And others here too. But some dont. There is love there is hate and there is no in between. IMO.
shimmer, you are right again. It always makes people feel uneasy when you point out in Scriptures that they are going wrong in some way. When I then see that, I try to correct them with Love. Some will see it, and some will not. If then the one that see's it, I have gained a Brother. I also feel that it is our duty as a Christian to point out wrong doing, whether they like it or not….If after a couple of times they still don't understand then I will stop…. I did this also with one of our Son's. Unfortunately He is so taken in by the Pastor there, He will never leave….So today all of our family will gather for Dinner, it is our weekly Dinner. And Ralph too after He comes from Church….My Motto is first to Love and then to do whatever God commanded us to do…
May Godalways be with You, IreneQuote (mikeangel @ Nov. 14 2010,04:32) Then you are in conflict with scripture. As stated above, Jesus said to worship God alone, as did the Angel in Revalations. If Jesus is not God then you are in conflict with scripture as it is written. We can go round and round and I know it won't change either of our minds. Also as you stated, you worship the spirit, also conflicting with that. My understanding does not come out of a hat, it comes from his sprit, the part of him that is with me. Jesus is not here yet, yet he said he would be here until the end of the age. That came at pentacost and is with us now. Not Just his fathers sprit, his also. The guidance of the holy sprit you speak of, is it only from the father? How is Jesus with us as he said until the end? Are they not in and through each other, one God forever and ever? If God is one and you are to adore and worship only him, as stated in scripture, and he is separate from the son and spirit, how can you worship them as you stated? You contradict yourself. Thats not out of a hat, its from your fingers……Peace-Mark
Mark,
You did not comprehend this:I consider the Son and Spirit as much a part of the Father as His own arm, as the radiance of His glory, as His very own image as per the Father/Son relationship and the Spirit as the Spirit of the Father and I don't go beyond that and claim the Spirit as a separate person.
If you comprehended this you would know the answers to your questions to me.
Quote (Baker @ Nov. 15 2010,00:50) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 14 2010,22:34) Quote (Baker @ Nov. 14 2010,23:53) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 14 2010,21:01) Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 14 2010,15:46) We cannot comprehend it (seriously), and anyone who claims to is fooling themselves IMO.Mark
Hi Mark. I have to agree with you here…people think they figure it all out, Question..analyze God…they still havent figured out loving their neighbour, they still cant forgive, they still cant accept others..As I always say, without love they have nothing, they dont see, they are blind, though they think theyre not. God truely is beyond our understanding.
shimmer, you are right on here. Without Love you are nothing. In fact it is the great Commandment to Love God and Love your neighbor as yourself….We have fantastic neighbors….Not everyone is as fortunate as we though….some will talk about you behind your back. We had such neighbors before we moved here. In spite of that I tried to do my best to love them. They sometimes turn a leaf when you pray for them…Some moved away and the one still remained turned a leaf…So many look at the outside of a man, what they possess, their car, their cloth etc. that is the world today…..Rev. tells us
“Come out of her My People.” Be in the world but not of the world….Today money talks….Peace Irene
Irene, I see it here. People who have God under a microscope….searching everywhere to try and discover Who God is, Who the son is, but failing to find out What God wants, What the son wants, Which is simple… Love God, Love neighbour. Who is a neighbour ? Anyone we talk to, anyone we walk past, anyone on here is a neighbour. They dont see this though. Only those doing the will of The Father will enter heaven it says. The will of God is to love. Mark has love, You have love Irene. And others here too. But some dont. There is love there is hate and there is no in between. IMO.
shimmer, you are right again. It always makes people feel uneasy when you point out in Scriptures that they are going wrong in some way. When I then see that, I try to correct them with Love. Some will see it, and some will not. If then the one that see's it, I have gained a Brother. I also feel that it is our duty as a Christian to point out wrong doing, whether they like it or not….If after a couple of times they still don't understand then I will stop…. I did this also with one of our Son's. Unfortunately He is so taken in by the Pastor there, He will never leave….So today all of our family will gather for Dinner, it is our weekly Dinner. And Ralph too after He comes from Church….My Motto is first to Love and then to do whatever God commanded us to do…
May Godalways be with You, Irene
Hi Irene, I will start a thread on love and forgiveness, the main thing Jesus taught, theres no thread on it here.So you see the 2 as one but the sprit is not in person form, but aknowledge that In the beginning was the word, and the word was given to us by the holy sprit from God, And “THE WORD WAS GOD”
?? Check. You have still not explained how you can worship Jesus if he is not God. I comprehend that you contradict yourself because IF he is not God, you aren't supposed to as stated in scripture above.”Worship God Alone” as I quoted above from the angel. Mikeboll and Marty Mark,
If I want to worship the Father in spirit and truth then I see Him as a God who has an 'image' not as a God without an 'image.' The Son is that image. In truth God is not imageless. His image briefly appeared on earth under the name of Jehovah and became flesh as Jehovah Saves (Yeshua).Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 15 2010,18:26) Mark,
If I want to worship the Father in spirit and truth then I see Him as a God who has an 'image' not as a God without an 'image.' The Son is that image. In truth God is not imageless. His image briefly appeared on earth under the name of Jehovah and became flesh as Jehovah Saves (Yeshua).
Kathiyou never should worship images,your approach to God trough Christ looks more like a bribe than honor the son,
Pierre
Pierre,
You misunderstand the image of a false god to the image of the True God. We do not worship an image that we chisel out of stone or wood, for sure. Christ is not that kind of image. God's image has nothing to do with false images. Remember, you should never 'honor' images either but that is obviously not speaking about God's image is it. You honor God's image don't you?Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 14 2010,12:57) Quote (Baker @ Nov. 14 2010,03:01) Mark! Since Mike and Marty are so busy all the time, I thought I would say what they believe. Nothing wrong with that….Why are you mad at me, you never went back to the other post, and answered it, why? In message to the devil….
Irene, I am not mad at you. I just wanted to hear them speak for themselves, and am still respectfully waiting for.
Peace and Love-Mark
Hi Mark,I've been busy in other threads and have neglected this one. I will try to catch up with your points tomorrow.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Lightenup @ Nov. 15 2010,18:46) Pierre,
You misunderstand the image of a false god to the image of the True God. We do not worship an image that we chisel out of stone or wood, for sure. Christ is not that kind of image. God's image has nothing to do with false images. Remember, you should never 'honor' images either but that is obviously not speaking about God's image is it. You honor God's image don't you?
kathino true you did not cut it out of any material,but you cut it out of your spirit of your soul and your hearth,
so it would still be a image that you have cut out from that spirit of yours.
Lev 26:1 “ ‘Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.
Dt 4:16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape,Pierre
Truly Pierre, God is the one that declared the Son His image…you give me too much credit. Are you doubting that the Son is the image of God now? Col 1:15
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 15 2010,22:36) Truly Pierre, God is the one that declared the Son His image…you give me too much credit. Are you doubting that the Son is the image of God now? Col 1:15
Kathiwhat type of image is Christ
Pierre
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