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Hi FYI,
“God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself”.It is right He should be worshiped in the vessel of Christ.
What about the question?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 05 2005,22:09) Hi FYI,
“God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself”.It is right He should be worshiped in the vessel of Christ.
What about the question?
Is there a question there?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 05 2005,21:49) Hi FYI,
Jn 5.23″in order that all may honor the Son even as they honor the Father”What does the word “as” mean to you?
It can read in english as meaning “in exactly the same way”
but
It can also be read as “as also” or “just as”
Hi FYI,
This one.
Though there are many more you are still to address like;Who came in the flesh?
What does begetting mean? separation in any form?
Is any son still part of his father?Nick,
Exodus 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the LORD (YHWH) thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Matthew 4:10 – Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Matthew 6:24 – No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
John 5:18 – Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John 14:1 – Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 12:26 – If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
Romans 14: 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Colossians 3:24 – Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
1 Thessalonians 1:9 – For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
Hebrews 9:14 – How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hebrews 12:28 – Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Revelation 22:1 – And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Notice the singularity of the last phrase “and his servants shall serve him“. YHWH is one – echad! And He occupies the Throne!
http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-oneness-unity-yachid-vs-echad.htm
One Throne, and YHWH is on it, God the Father and the “YHWH is Salvation” the Lamb (The Word of God).
You can deny it all you want. You can even say it is not written and taught in the bible. But that will not change the truth that it is.
The pharisees denied it and The Lord Jesus (YHWH is Salvation) said they were of their father the devil.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O Elohim, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore Elohim, even thy Elohim, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Rev 5: 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. 11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
Hi FYI,
Surely God and the Lamb are united even as to the throne.
But they are not the same being-two as one.Luke 17: 15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God, 16 And fell down on his face at His (YHWH is salvation – Jesus) feet, giving Him thanks: and he was a Samaritan. 17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine? 18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger. 19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
Matthew 2:2 – Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Matthew 2:11 – And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
Matthew 4:10 – Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Matthew 8:2 – And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
John 9:38 – And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Matt 14: 30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. 31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? 32 And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased. 33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Priests offer up worship!
Rev 20: 6 Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.
Jesus (YHWH is salvation) is YHWH!
Hi FYI,
He is worthy as the Son of God to be honoured by all. He is the greatest and most glorious being under God and as John said in Jn 1.14
” we beheld HIS glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth”That is not an indication he is that Father God who sent him from heaven and to whom he prayed as his God.He was a vessel for that God as Spirit;
Coll 2.9
” For IN HIM all the fulness of Deity DWELLS in bodily form”You need to research again the use of the words translated as “worship” perhaps?
To be born-again is to have Christ/God/The Holy Spirit reside in You. These three are one and interchangeable in scripture!
John 14:23 – Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Jeremiah 31: 12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD (YHWH); and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD (YHWH), and I will not keep anger for ever. 13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD (YHWH) thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD (YHWH). 14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD (YHWH); for I am married unto you:
Jeremiah 31:33 – But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD (YHWH), I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Ezekiel 11: 19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Luke 17:21 – Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
John 14:17 – Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:20 – At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 15:4 – Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Romans 8:10 – And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Romans 8:11 – But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1 Corinthians 3:16 – Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Corinthians 6:19 – What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1 Corinthians 12:13 – For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:25 – And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
2 Corinthians 13:5 – Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Ephesians 3:17 – That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Ephesians 4:6 – One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Colossians 1:27 – To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
1 John 2:14 – I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the Word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
1 John 2:27 – But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1 John 4:4 – Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Good stuff FYI,
No problem there.But the problem you have is “what of Christ?”.
God also dwelled in him by His Spirit. So unless you differentiate the Father and the Son you have to say that God dwelled in God.
Now scripture is full of beings living in beings. Satan become incarnate in Judas and jesus spends a lot of his time driving demonic beings out of men.
But no being lives in itself. The Son of God is filled with the Spirit of God and not himself.Priests offer up worship!
Rev 20: 6 Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.
Jesus (YHWH is salvation) is YHWH!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2005,01:28) Hi FYI,
So Whom does Christ, the eternal Priest, Worship?
Show me a scripture that says He does anything more than pray to His Father – Which is BTW communication!Chapter and Verse
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2005,01:45) Hi,
If God is the God of Jesus would he NOT worship his God?
Chapter and Verse Nick.In fact,
Aside from keeping the Feasts, which He was required to do in obedience to the law, Christ is shown over and over telling everyone to worship God ONLY.
And, over and over in all the New Testament Christ is shown receiving worship of all of creation.
In Revelation we see Christ on the Throne with Father God receiving worship – Christ is NOT in the audience of men and angels worshipping God.
JESUS is YHWH (LORD)
Actually FYI,
You raise a good point.
What is worship?
Is it just bowing down to someone in obesience or is it in your whole attitude? Was the Song of Moses true worship?What about the canticle of Mary or the words of Elizabeth or Zecharias or the many other Spirit inspired praises to God shown in the Word.
Are the many Psalms of praise to God actually true worship? Surely what is said matters at least as much as bowing down?
Jesus defined true worship as being in spirit and truth.
If he gave us such definitions then his words worshipped God and His internal communication with God when he went off alone was that worship in him too.
Certainly his praise to God for revealing to mere children what he had hidden from the wise and clever would be too.
His prayer to God in Jn 17 shows he knew God was greater than he and could bring things about that he asked, for showed he had the attitude we need- one of faith.
What do you think?
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