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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 06 2010,14:12) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2010,14:44) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 06 2010,13:23) Hi All David and Mike claim they have answered my points, but I am going to bring them up again so everyone can see that they have not. Also I have bolded the points in the end so that they have another chance at proving me wrong.
In John 4:20-24 the word “proskyneō” is used 9 times in Jesus discussion with the Samaritan woman about the “True Worship”.
Why did John and Jesus choose the word if he wanted to portray the “True worship” to the Father could mean anything less?
Now here is a tidbit for those who have ears to hear…
Jesus said…
But the hour cometh, and now is, when THE TRUE WORSHIPPERS [GR PROSKYNĒTĒS] SHALL WORSHIP the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. John 4:23
Notice Strong's G4353 – “proskynētēs”, it is a masculine noun which means “worshippers” and is only found ONCE in the NT. It is the root word for the verb “proskyneō”.
So that means that every time you see the verb “proskyneō” it is being performed by someone who is a “worshipper” “proskynētēs”!
In all the scriptures that speak of Jesus being worshipped (proskyneō) why didn’t Jesus once say do not worship me?
To say that it is because Jesus wasn’t being worshipped but just being honored lacks evidence because there are no other NT examples of the word proskyneō being used toward any one with honor other than the Father and Jesus. In every case the word is directed to any other it is refused or it is a worshipping falsely.
The burden of proof is on the gainsayers.
The rhetoric about the word proskyneō not meaning “worship” but just bowing down out of respect is not in the NT.
Please can someone give us a NT example of the word being used in honor to any other than the Father and Jesus? Where is the NT example of a bowing down to someone out of great respect?
Why did Jesus use the word in describing “True Worship” (proskyneō) to God and not rebuke those who worshipped (proskyneō) him?
Here are the main points they have not addressed.
- Why did John and Jesus choose the word if he wanted to portray the “True worship” to the Father could mean anything less? (In John 4:20-24 the word “proskyneō” is used 9 times in Jesus discussion with the Samaritan woman about the “True Worship”.)
- In all the scriptures that speak of Jesus being worshipped (proskyneō) why didn’t Jesus once say do not worship me? (Since Peter and John refused proskyneō) David said it is because Peter was humble. Then that means that Peter was more humble than Jesus. No, Peter said “He also was a man”.
- To say that it is because Jesus wasn’t being worshipped but just being honored lacks evidence because there are no other NT examples of the word proskyneō being used toward any one with honor other than the Father and Jesus. In every case the word is directed to any other it is refused or it is a worshipping falsely.
- Please can someone give us a NT example of the word being used in honor to any other than the Father and Jesus? Where is the NT example of a bowing down to someone out of great respect?
Now please stop rewording my statements to fit your response.
WJ
WJwhy not go to the pope or is jesuits,they would all agree with you,there harms are open like the ABBYS OF DEAD.
your discussion is all abode WORDS;2Ti 2:14 Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.
you do no good,like i told you before you do not understand Christ spirit ,you are only not following scriptures;;; 2Ti 2:16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
2Ti 2:17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,
2Ti 2:18 who have wandered away from the truthall the topics on words have end up being useless and have not advance the truth ,to understand the spirit of Christ and his father,
prove go back in the beginning of those topics.
Pierre
PeirreWhy don't you refute my points instead of just puking out more of your condemning and foolish diatribe.
Seriously you need to grow up.
WJ
WJi have answered you with scriptures but again you have them all scraped.
it is your views that counts,and your challenge is all that matters just as Kathi ,
got a question are you two related???this is how we can tell the difference between the ones who serve God and the ones who do not,
who does not always find discussions around nothing but words,and propose deceit ,and false teachings.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2010,15:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 06 2010,14:12) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2010,14:44) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 06 2010,13:23) Hi All David and Mike claim they have answered my points, but I am going to bring them up again so everyone can see that they have not. Also I have bolded the points in the end so that they have another chance at proving me wrong.
In John 4:20-24 the word “proskyneō” is used 9 times in Jesus discussion with the Samaritan woman about the “True Worship”.
Why did John and Jesus choose the word if he wanted to portray the “True worship” to the Father could mean anything less?
Now here is a tidbit for those who have ears to hear…
Jesus said…
But the hour cometh, and now is, when THE TRUE WORSHIPPERS [GR PROSKYNĒTĒS] SHALL WORSHIP the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. John 4:23
Notice Strong's G4353 – “proskynētēs”, it is a masculine noun which means “worshippers” and is only found ONCE in the NT. It is the root word for the verb “proskyneō”.
So that means that every time you see the verb “proskyneō” it is being performed by someone who is a “worshipper” “proskynētēs”!
In all the scriptures that speak of Jesus being worshipped (proskyneō) why didn’t Jesus once say do not worship me?
To say that it is because Jesus wasn’t being worshipped but just being honored lacks evidence because there are no other NT examples of the word proskyneō being used toward any one with honor other than the Father and Jesus. In every case the word is directed to any other it is refused or it is a worshipping falsely.
The burden of proof is on the gainsayers.
The rhetoric about the word proskyneō not meaning “worship” but just bowing down out of respect is not in the NT.
Please can someone give us a NT example of the word being used in honor to any other than the Father and Jesus? Where is the NT example of a bowing down to someone out of great respect?
Why did Jesus use the word in describing “True Worship” (proskyneō) to God and not rebuke those who worshipped (proskyneō) him?
Here are the main points they have not addressed.
- Why did John and Jesus choose the word if he wanted to portray the “True worship” to the Father could mean anything less? (In John 4:20-24 the word “proskyneō” is used 9 times in Jesus discussion with the Samaritan woman about the “True Worship”.)
- In all the scriptures that speak of Jesus being worshipped (proskyneō) why didn’t Jesus once say do not worship me? (Since Peter and John refused proskyneō) David said it is because Peter was humble. Then that means that Peter was more humble than Jesus. No, Peter said “He also was a man”.
- To say that it is because Jesus wasn’t being worshipped but just being honored lacks evidence because there are no other NT examples of the word proskyneō being used toward any one with honor other than the Father and Jesus. In every case the word is directed to any other it is refused or it is a worshipping falsely.
- Please can someone give us a NT example of the word being used in honor to any other than the Father and Jesus? Where is the NT example of a bowing down to someone out of great respect?
Now please stop rewording my statements to fit your response.
WJ
WJwhy not go to the pope or is jesuits,they would all agree with you,there harms are open like the ABBYS OF DEAD.
your discussion is all abode WORDS;2Ti 2:14 Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.
you do no good,like i told you before you do not understand Christ spirit ,you are only not following scriptures;;; 2Ti 2:16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
2Ti 2:17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,
2Ti 2:18 who have wandered away from the truthall the topics on words have end up being useless and have not advance the truth ,to understand the spirit of Christ and his father,
prove go back in the beginning of those topics.
Pierre
PeirreWhy don't you refute my points instead of just puking out more of your condemning and foolish diatribe.
Seriously you need to grow up.
WJ
WJi have answered you with scriptures but again you have them all scraped.
it is your views that counts,and your challenge is all that matters just as Kathi ,
got a question are you two related???this is how we can tell the difference between the ones who serve God and the ones who do not,
who does not always find discussions around nothing but words,and propose deceit ,and false teachings.
Pierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,15:20) BTW Peirre You never answered my question…
“Do you pray to Jesus and have fellowship with him?
If not why not?
If so how do you explain the conundrum you have of praying to anything or anyone but God?
WJ
Bump for Peirre…Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,15:22) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2010,15:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 06 2010,12:00) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 04 2010,21:22) WJ: He said: for my sake and the sake of the gospel. We are submitted to God through him. When we obey him we are obeying God in that he is doing the will of God.
MartyWhat does this mean Marty? Are you saying you are not submitted to Jesus, but only God through him? Are you saying that you are not obeying Jesus but only God?
Jesus didn't say that Paul would suffer for the Fathers sake did he? He didn't say that they were to lose their lives for the Fathers sake did he? He didn't say for “their” sake did he?
Why do you anti-trinitarians seek to diminish honor and credit to Jesus? Basically you explain his authority and power out of existence like he is a “puppet on a string” or something like a “funnel”.
This is clear and simple. The Mosaic law forbids such devotion to a man or a creature other than God.
God has not changed his mind has he?
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: (and yet we look to Jesus by whom we are changing into Jesus image) “THOU SHALT NOT BOW DOWN THYSELF TO THEM, NOR SERVE THEM: FOR I THE LORD THY GOD AM A JEALOUS GOD“, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; Gen 20:3-5
Jesus is a religious figure and requires that we follow him even to death or as a Martyr to him if he so requires like he did of the Apostles save one, John..
Do you see that is a violation of the Mosaic law for anyone to place such demands on them. Can you see that the devotion to Jesus when they bowed down to Jesus and worshipped him would be crossing the line. If not then that must mean that you put limits on your devotion to him. Do you?
If you do not put any limits on your devotion to him then tell me how that would not be breaking the commandment if Jesus is not God?
Their giving all and following Jesus even to a Martyrs death is a “complete abandonment of self” which is a good definition for “WORSHIP” pure and simple.
Jesus is either an “Idol” or he is God. Which one is he to you?
WJ
WJall trinitarians will all agree that Jesus is God ,
your question is out of scriptures and do not need a scriptural answer.
it is a question to the apostasy.
Pierre
PeirreHave you completely abandoned yourself to follow Jesus?
Would you die for Jesus if he so required of you to be a martyr?
If the answer is yes to the above then Jesus is either your “idol” or he is “your God”, which is it?
WJ
Bump for Peirre…Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 06 2010,03:28) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 05 2010,03:35) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 05 2010,15:47) That will be interesting to hear what you find out about mother Teresa. I would really like to know if it is true that she didn't really lead people to turn away from other ways to God to follow Christ only. It seems without that message given, her works only led to earthly comfort of those she 'ministered' to and not to their eternal salvation. I wonder why she didn't see the importance of that.
Kathi,http://www.ewtn.com/motherteresa/words.htm
She says..
“There are so many religions and each one has its different ways of following God. I follow Christ:
Jesus is my God,
Jesus is my Spouse,
Jesus is my Life,
Jesus is my only Love,
Jesus is my All in All;
Jesus is my Everything.”
Shimmer,
Do you agree with this quote of Teresa's:“There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people. We have among us 475 souls – 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers.”
We should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim? Really?? Should we help an idol worshiper become a better idol worshiper too? Does that even make sense to you in light of the gospel?
Does everyone come to the Father whether by Christ or whomever they fancy? That is not scriptural! Teresa doesn't get my vote for the example of true religion.
Mother Teresa has my vote for an example of true religion.Maybe she never had it 100% correct, but Jesus died for those errors, she had a Good Spirit, reading some of her quotes made me tearfull,
If you think worshipping correctly has to do with when Jesus returns, dont forget what happens when Jesus seperates the weeds from the wheat, Mother Teresa would be with the wheat because she fed the hungry, she visited the lonely, she helped heal the wounded, she gave hope and she was a good example of how we all should be,
Quote Mother Teresa…
“Before you speak, it is necessary for you to listen, for God speaks in the silence of the heart”.
“Give yourself fully to God. He will use you to accomplish great things on the condition that you believe much more in His love than in your own weakness”.
“Speak tenderly to them. Let there be kindness in your face, in your eyes, in your smile, in the warmth of your greeting. Always have a cheerful smile. Don't only give your care, but give your heart as well””.
“Make us worthy, Lord, to serve those people throughout the world who live and die in poverty and hunger. Give them through our hands, this day, their daily bread, and by our understanding love, give them peace and joy”.
“I heard the call to give up all and follow Christ into the slums to serve Him among the poorest of the poor. It was an order.
I was to leave the convent and help the poor while living among them”.“When a poor person dies of hunger, it has not happened because God did not take care of him or her. It has happened because neither you nor I wanted to give that person what he or she needed”.
“You and I, we are the Church, no? We have to share with our people. Suffering today is because people are hoarding, not giving, not sharing. Jesus made it very clear. Whatever you do to the least of my brethren, you do it to me. Give a glass of water, you give it to me. Receive a little child, you receive me”.
Im sure that many people who she helped saw her pray and follow Jesus and copied her and learnt of who the son is through her love she had for them.
Shimmer,
The part she missed is crucial to salvation. She only had to miss that one point about Jesus being the only way and teaching that but she taught the opposite of that. Jesus was her way, so if she gets salvation it will be inspite of misleading the masses which is really sad. She was a false teacher if she taught that you can be saved through anyone other than Christ. I don't think that she has the grace coming to her as the 'sheep' in the parable because she claimed to follow Christ. The sheep in the parable claimed not to know Christ but did help the believers and Christ knew them. I'm not sure how all that is going to happen but I think the ones that claim to know Christ and do works may not necessarily be known to Him and will be the goats on the left. Satan would love for that one truth to be overlooked.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,15:24) Peirre If you are not gonna add anything to the discussion then please stop spamming the thread with foolish diatribe. This is considered to be in violation of sight rules you know?
WJ
Totally agree Keith! Why bother with trying to clean up the puke, you will just get more, like diarrhea of the mouth, imo.Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 06 2010,11:27) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,15:24) Peirre If you are not gonna add anything to the discussion then please stop spamming the thread with foolish diatribe. This is considered to be in violation of sight rules you know?
WJ
Totally agree Keith! Why bother with trying to clean up the puke, you will just get more, like diarrhea of the mouth, imo.
Terrarica speaks alot of sense, to say He speaks puke and diarrehea in your words, is an insult. Just as how you say Mother Teressa was wrong, you have taken ONE thing she said and made it her judgment, you have forgotten all that she did, and as many as she may have saved through her example,Hi WJ:
You answered your own questions by the following when you say:
Quote This is clear and simple. The Mosaic law forbids such devotion to a man or a creature other than God. God has not changed his mind has he?
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: (and yet we look to Jesus by whom we are changing into Jesus image) “THOU SHALT NOT BOW DOWN THYSELF TO THEM, NOR SERVE THEM: FOR I THE LORD THY GOD AM A JEALOUS GOD”, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; Gen 20:3-5
1 Timothy 2:
Quote 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; This plainly states that there is but “One God”, and that Jesus is a man, and so does this agree with your God in three persons doctrine or does it refute it.
The scriptures also says that the husband is the head of the wife “even as Christ is the head of the church”. Does that make me God to my wife? It is the “Word of God” that we are obeying from the head of the church on down.
No, I am not taking away from the authority of Jesus. God put him in authority in the church. Did you hear, WJ. It is God who gave him the authority, and he watches over the Word of God to perform it.
He obeyed the Word of God even unto death on the cross, and no one can come to the Father but by him. He is the judge of the living and the dead, and he is worthy of the is position and of all honor and glory and praise, but no, he is not God. God made man in His own image, and when we have seen Jesus we have seen God manifest through the life that he lived in obedience to God's Word.
Jesus is my Lord. When I obey him, I am obeying God, just as when my wife obeys the Word of God submitted to him through me.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (shimmer @ Nov. 05 2010,17:46) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 06 2010,11:27) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,15:24) Peirre If you are not gonna add anything to the discussion then please stop spamming the thread with foolish diatribe. This is considered to be in violation of sight rules you know?
WJ
Totally agree Keith! Why bother with trying to clean up the puke, you will just get more, like diarrhea of the mouth, imo.
Terrarica speaks alot of sense, to say He speaks puke and diarrehea in your words, is an insult. Just as how you say Mother Teressa was wrong, you have taken ONE thing she said and made it her judgment, you have forgotten all that she did, and as many as she may have saved through her example,
Shimmer,
That's good you are right, it was an insult…I have taken tons of his. Where are you when he is dishing it out towards me or Keith?I can have my opinions of Teresa. She was given millions of dollars but puts on the pauper appearance. Was she playing a role to tug at people's pocket books? I started wondering about her when I learned that she would allow people to die without knowing there is only one way to God.
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 06 2010,19:51) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 05 2010,17:46) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 06 2010,11:27) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,15:24) Peirre If you are not gonna add anything to the discussion then please stop spamming the thread with foolish diatribe. This is considered to be in violation of sight rules you know?
WJ
Totally agree Keith! Why bother with trying to clean up the puke, you will just get more, like diarrhea of the mouth, imo.
Terrarica speaks alot of sense, to say He speaks puke and diarrehea in your words, is an insult. Just as how you say Mother Teressa was wrong, you have taken ONE thing she said and made it her judgment, you have forgotten all that she did, and as many as she may have saved through her example,
Shimmer,
That's good you are right, it was an insult…I have taken tons of his. Where are you when he is dishing it out towards me or Keith?I can have my opinions of Teresa. She was given millions of dollars but puts on the pauper appearance. Was she playing a role to tug at people's pocket books? I started wondering about her when I learned that she would allow people to die without knowing there is only one way to God.
kathiwhat s your problem sister Theresa is a trinitarian ,like you.
i am sure she would talk about Christ,may be not the way we would or you would because that is also false to worship Christ ,
but she as one thing that not many have done, she was able to hold many dieing old rejected people in he harms,yea i know she kissed the pope feet,she worship images ,this is against her ,but she has also a lot with her,so at the resurrection it would be all strayed it up for her.
Pierre
and so you are related to WJ.
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 06 2010,14:51) I can have my opinions of Teresa. She was given millions of dollars but puts on the pauper appearance. Was she playing a role to tug at people's pocket books? I started wondering about her when I learned that she would allow people to die without knowing there is only one way to God.
James 1:27…”Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.”Argue with scripture sorry, God knows the intentions of her heart, which is good, for those who think she had bad intentions, I dont believe that at all.
Mother Theresa from what I remember hearing struggled with her beliefs. So though she was a Catholic Nun, she had her own opinions as well. Someone cant often help what they are at the time of their calling, its all that they know. She obeyed though.
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 06 2010,14:24) Mother Theresa from what I remember hearing struggled with her beliefs. So though she was a Catholic Nun, she had her own opinions as well. Someone cant often help what they are at the time of their calling, its all that they know. She obeyed though.
shimmer! We came out of the Catholic Church and they really admire Sister. But please understand that Pierre also has a point. I believe that we have to let God do the judging. My Husband told me some time ago, that God is only calling certain people out of Organized Religions….and all will have a chance to follow God when Christ will return…..and that might be sooner then we think….
Do you ever watch Mr. Glenn Beck?
? He has a lot to say about One World Government….. Its coming…..and we here in America will suffer from it…….Peace nd Love IreneQuote (shimmer @ Nov. 06 2010,21:24) Mother Theresa from what I remember hearing struggled with her beliefs. So though she was a Catholic Nun, she had her own opinions as well. Someone cant often help what they are at the time of their calling, its all that they know. She obeyed though.
shimmeri really understand you,my god mother was my ante and she as spend 45 years as a none mainly in Africa and Europe
but because she was a catholic none,she also believe in the worship of images,statues,kissed the pope feet and hand,and worship Marie, what is Astarte a pagan goddess,
so she did like sister Theresa,not worshiping the true God as per his directions and according to Jesus teachings;
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
God is truth and we have to worship him in TRUTH,this sister Theresa and my ante did not do,
even they did good works this will be to there credit but at the judgement day,second resurrection.
Ac 7:42 But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets:
“ ‘Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings
forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?
Ac 7:43 You have lifted up the shrine of Molech
and the star of your god Rephan,
the idols you made to worship.
Therefore I will send you into exile’Phil 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh—
Col 2:18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notionsworship God in the way that pleases him is the most important,Christ as shown us how “in SPIRIT AND TRUTH”
and also as James say to deal within the believers to help the fatherless,the poor,the widows ect;;
there are many people around the world who does good deeds but are they done for the purpose to serve the only true God and his son Jesus Christ ??
Pierre
Hi all. OK.
Mother Theresa never claimed to be a teacher, more like humble servant… we are told not to judge, easier said than done aye.
Irene, you really think the end is soon ?
Marty
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 05 2010,18:15) Jesus is my Lord. When I obey him, I am obeying God…
That’s a pretty profound statement Marty. Now how far would you carry that? Would you follow his command even if it meant you were going to die for his (Jesus) names sake? So in other words what you are saying Marty is Jesus is equal to God, right?If you gave a commandment to someone and said they must “lose their life for your names sake” wouldn't others think you were mad and playing God?
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 05 2010,18:15) …just as when my wife obeys the Word of God submitted to him through me.
If you tell your wife that she must follow you even to death no matter what that meant, would she be obeying God or man?Do you care to answer my following points or do you want to just keep pushing your Jesus is just a mere man theory?
This is clear and simple. The Mosaic law forbids such devotion to a man or a creature other than God.
God has not changed his mind has he?
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: (and yet we look to Jesus by whom we are changing into Jesus image) “THOU SHALT NOT BOW DOWN THYSELF TO THEM, NOR SERVE THEM: FOR I THE LORD THY GOD AM A JEALOUS GOD“, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; Gen 20:3-5
Jesus is a religious figure and requires that we follow him even to death or as a Martyr to him if he so requires like he did of the Apostles save one, John..
Do you see that is a violation of the Mosaic law for anyone to place such demands on them. Can you see that the devotion to Jesus when they bowed down to Jesus and worshipped him would be crossing the line. If not then that must mean that you put limits on your devotion to him. Do you?
If you do not put any limits on your devotion to him then tell me how that would not be breaking the commandment if Jesus is not God?
Their giving all and following Jesus even to a Martyrs death is a “complete abandonment of self” which is a good definition for “WORSHIP” pure and simple.
Jesus is either an “Idol” or he is God. Which one is he to you?
Do you mind answering these points…
- Do you see that is a violation of the Mosaic law for anyone to place such demands on them….If not then that must mean that you put limits on your devotion to him. Do you?
- If you do not put any limits on your devotion to him then tell me how that would not be breaking the commandment if Jesus is not God?
- How can you claim Jesus is first in your life? Or do you? He may require for you to die for him like Paul and the other Apostles and that would be breaking the commandments of God wouldn't it? (Unless of course he is God)
BTW Jesus was given the authority he had before he left his place of Glory and emptied himself and was found in fashion as a man. Phil 2:6-8 – John 1:1-3, 14 – John 17:5
WJ
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 05 2010,15:56) Mike,
You seem to ignore the fact that Jesus is not only the High Priest, and the Mediator but is the God with God from John 1:1, in fact you ignore it, Irene ignores it, and Marty ignores it.
Hi Kathi,John 1:1 speaks of “a mighty one” who was WITH “THE Almighty One” in the beginning. Neither John 1:1, nor any other scripture in existence speaks of TWO Gods.
And listen to what you said:
Quote These two are from one nature, not different natures thus making a God from one nature and another God from a different nature.
Your very words claim TWO Gods that are to be worshipped as God. How many Gods do we have again Kathi? I think Jehovah said He alone is God, and there are no others.peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2010,13:30)
John 1:1 speaks of “a mighty one” who was WITH “THE Almighty One” in the beginning. Neither John 1:1, nor any other scripture in existence speaks of TWO Gods.
MikeSo you not only have abandoned every known translation on Biblegateway.com and Blueletterbible.org and the NET, but also the NWT?
None of them say “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was the [a] mighty one”.
Mike knows better than all the translators including the NWT and even the Apostle John who stuck the word “Theos” right next to “Theos”.
WJ
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