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Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 04 2010,17:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,06:30) To all Another point is that worship is not simply a bowing down in respect of another but is also a form of “COMPLETE DEVOTION” to another. It is a condition of the heart.
To follow one even to death is also a form of worshipping that person. For where your heart is that is where your treasure is. Jesus is my treasure and I put no limits as to my devotion to him which means he must be my God or I am breaking the 1st commandment!
So for all those who claim to follow Jesus, at what point do you stop in your devotion and love to him? At what point do you cease giving him honor? At what point do you stop following him?
WJ
Thats true… as in the real meaning behind the word worship.BUT Jesus said to worship only God, you are saying that Jesus is God so you havent broken the first command, but if that were true, why did Jesus never say this ? Why did Jesus never said “I am God there is no other but me” instead He showed the Father, he prayed the Father, he trusted the Father.
Jesus commanded men to follow him even if it meant martyrdom. He said…For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and “whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it“. Matt 16:25
Many were beheaded for Jesus.
Under the Hebrew law this kind of devotion would be idolatry and a breaking of the first commandment.
Aren't we supposed to Love God with all our hearts, soul, mind and strength?
Do you Love Jesus with all your heart, soul, mind and strength?
At what point do we limit our devotion and love to him?
WJ
Hi All
Jesus said…
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. Acts 9:16
Only God could demand suffering for his names sake.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,16:39) Hi All Jesus said…
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. Acts 9:16
Only God could demand suffering for his names sake.
WJ
WJwrong again,it is not God who give his live it was his son,
and you do not understand the meaning of the demand neither.i have no idea why you are so blind that you can not see it ,
but keep coming up with deceit,Satan is at work here,
you must be sold to your church dogmas.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2010,17:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,16:39) Hi All Jesus said…
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. Acts 9:16
Only God could demand suffering for his names sake.
WJ
WJwrong again,it is not God who give his live it was his son,
and you do not understand the meaning of the demand neither.i have no idea why you are so blind that you can not see it ,
but keep coming up with deceit,Satan is at work here,
you must be sold to your church dogmas.
Pierre
TWhat is unclear about Jesus words “He must suffer for MY NAME SAKE” do you not understand?
Under the Mosaic law this kind of devotion or requirement of another would be idolatry.
You do understand this point don't you?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,16:51) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2010,17:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,16:39) Hi All Jesus said…
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. Acts 9:16
Only God could demand suffering for his names sake.
WJ
WJwrong again,it is not God who give his live it was his son,
and you do not understand the meaning of the demand neither.i have no idea why you are so blind that you can not see it ,
but keep coming up with deceit,Satan is at work here,
you must be sold to your church dogmas.
Pierre
TWhat is unclear about Jesus words “He must suffer for MY NAME SAKE” do you not understand?
Under the Mosaic law this kind of devotion or requirement of another would be idolatry.
You do understand this point don't you?
WJ
WJno i do not understand it as you do ,so would you be kind enough to explain it in other words ,so i could understand it ,
i know the therm is only used since the 1650 AD
but thats all.
is this a good translation of the Greek text
if not what is the truth .Pierre
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 04 2010,18:11) Hi Shimmer,
I was hoping that you could admit that changing the translation from 'worship' to 'bowing down to' is not necessarily showing any difference. Can you do that?You mentioned this:
Quote “In vain do they worship, teaching as doctrines commandments of men.” …….. And you shall know the truth the truth shall make you free.” …………….”people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.” “God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”…………” And then you say this:
Quote Mother Teresa is one example I believe of true religion. See, no walls. You believe Mother Teresa to having been an example of true religion but do you think that she knows the truth. Didn't she worship Jesus, even Mary? You don't agree with either, right? Didn't she also teach that there were many ways to God, not just through Jesus? Maybe I'm wrong here so please correct me if I am. If I am right, then why would you use her as someone to exemplify 'true religion?'
She certainly was a worthy humanitarian and deserves credit for that but was she really worshiping God in spirit and truth?
Hi,I think for her or anyone else to give up all they have to help others is following Jesus and what he said, how she believes would have no matter, when she sees God one day she will know then. She prayed, she was a Cathlolic, she believed in Jesus, thats all I know.
Actually I will read her book,
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 05 2010,19:18) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 04 2010,18:11) Hi Shimmer,
I was hoping that you could admit that changing the translation from 'worship' to 'bowing down to' is not necessarily showing any difference. Can you do that?You mentioned this:
Quote “In vain do they worship, teaching as doctrines commandments of men.” …….. And you shall know the truth the truth shall make you free.” …………….”people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.” “God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”…………” And then you say this:
Quote Mother Teresa is one example I believe of true religion. See, no walls. You believe Mother Teresa to having been an example of true religion but do you think that she knows the truth. Didn't she worship Jesus, even Mary? You don't agree with either, right? Didn't she also teach that there were many ways to God, not just through Jesus? Maybe I'm wrong here so please correct me if I am. If I am right, then why would you use her as someone to exemplify 'true religion?'
She certainly was a worthy humanitarian and deserves credit for that but was she really worshiping God in spirit and truth?
Hi,I think for her or anyone else to give up all they have to help others is following Jesus and what he said, how she believes would have no matter, when she sees God one day she will know then. She prayed, she was a Cathlolic, she believed in Jesus, thats all I know.
Actually I will read her book,
shimmercould you show me one example in scripture similar to sister theresa ??
Pierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,09:51) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2010,17:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,16:39) Hi All Jesus said…
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. Acts 9:16
Only God could demand suffering for his names sake.
WJ
WJwrong again,it is not God who give his live it was his son,
and you do not understand the meaning of the demand neither.i have no idea why you are so blind that you can not see it ,
but keep coming up with deceit,Satan is at work here,
you must be sold to your church dogmas.
Pierre
TWhat is unclear about Jesus words “He must suffer for MY NAME SAKE” do you not understand?
Under the Mosaic law this kind of devotion or requirement of another would be idolatry.
You do understand this point don't you?
WJ
WJ:He said: for my sake and the sake of the gospel. We are submitted to God through him. When we obey him we are obeying God in that he is doing the will of God.
Quote John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.Quote John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent meHe said that we should honor him as we honor God because he was sent by God, but he did not say that we should worship him as God.
Quote John 5:19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
What he did say when he was tempted by Satan who was trying to get Jesus to worship him was:
Quote Matthew 4:8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi All,
I can't believe this. Kathi and Keith are still arguing that the soldiers were “mock worshipping” Jesus.
Matthew 27:27-29 NIV
27 Then the governor’s soldiers took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole company of soldiers around him. 28 They stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him, 29 and then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on his head. They put a staff in his right hand. Then they knelt in front of him and mocked him. “Hail, king of the Jews!” they said.So, were they mocking the obeisance done to a king, as the scripture CLEARLY implies, or were they mocking the worship done to God?
Keith will not answer questions one point at a time. His answer to this one simple question above will be to start spouting all of his other trinity “proof texts”. And it doesn't matter that all of them have been repeatedly answered and refuted.
Keith made a claim that no NT use of “proskuneo” meant anything other than “God-worship”. Now as much of a joke as it was to exclude any OT examples, as if somehow the word “proskuneo” meant something different to the LXX writers than it did to the NT writers, David and I have STILL mangaged to find not one, but at least three NT uses of “proskuneo” that were CLEARLY not “God-worship”. Will he acknowledge that point? Or will he run and hide amongst his “trinity proofs texts”?
What always happens is that Keith, when confronted with scriptural truth that refutes his claim, will not discuss that one claim anymore. He will immediately start posting many scriptures from many places in the Bible that he claims say Jesus is God. And taken out of context from here and there, they CAN be made to sound like they support the trinity. But when examined in the light of other scriptures, they clearly say nothing about a trinity. But by the time you post these “other scriptures” that refute his claim, he's already off and running with even more out of context scriptures. And always without discussing any of the scriptures to fruition.
You all can play “hide and seek” with him if you want. I've had more than enough of it. I've offered Keith a challenge to discuss ONLY the claim he made (above bolded) until we get to the bottom of it. On the off chance he simply didn't see my post, I will bump it for him.
peace and love,
mikeBump for Keith
Keith:
Quote David You have not proven that they were not worshipping the King!
The servant therefore “FELL DOWN“, and “WORSHIPPED HIM, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Matt 18:26
Notice the words “FELL DOWN“, and “WORSHIPPED HIM“, (peswn oun o doulov prosekunei)
But according to your interpretation it would be “fell down” and “fell down” or “fell down” and “bowed down”.
Brenton's LXX translation of 2 Samuel 1:2,And it came to pass on the third day, that, behold, a man came from the camp, from the people of Saul, and his garments were rent, and earth [was] upon his head:
and it came to pass when he went in to David, that he fell upon the earth, and did obeisance to him.Are you implying that one cannot both “fall down” AND “do obeisance” to someone, Keith?
Keith:
Quote You also have not proven that they were not mocking “true worship“. John 4:24
Read Matthew 27 Keith. As the soldiers were mocking Jesus, they said this, “Hail, king of the Jews!” Isn't that enough to tell you they were mocking the act of obeisance to a king, not “God-Worship”?Look Keith, David has showed you this scripture. I have showed you two other uses of “proskuneo” in the NT that have nothing to do with “God-Worship”. I have showed you one from the OT, and can probably find many more. How can you look yourself in the mirror? I point out 2 Sam 1:2, and instead of admitting that “proskuneo” doesn't always mean “God-Worship”, you say that OT scriptures aren't allowed.
And now you've been shown at least three NT scriptures, but you make non-sensical replies about each one.
And when faced with all this, you immediately resort to your “trinity proof texts”. The same ones we've scripturally refuted over and over.
Instead of this “bait and switch” routine, let's actually iron something out for once. Pick any of the three NT scriptures David and I have pointed out:
1. The church of Philadelphia
2. The soldiers
3. Peter and CorneliusLet's discuss them slowly and completely without any of the usual “I and the Father are one” diversions. Just those three scriptures. Let's see if your theories hold water.
And when we're done, you can show me why you are absolutely certain that all of the uses of “proskuneo” in referrence to Jesus MUST be “God-Worship”. Show me how there's not even a snowball's chance that they COULD be acts of obeisance.
And then after giving our OPINIONS about it – for that is all it will amount to be – we can peruse some of the writings of those people involved in the said “God-Worshipping” of Jesus, and see whose OPINION more closely matches what those people later wrote about God and His Son.
Are you in? If not, then I'm out. I've got no time for these nonsensical claims you're making. I'll just wait for you to respond in the “Procreation” thread when you get some time.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Lightenup @ Nov. 04 2010,15:54) Quote (Baker @ Nov. 04 2010,12:17) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 03 2010,12:33) Irene, Quote Why would Jesus be our Mediator if we can go directly to both and worship both…..He is not needed then….I only worship Jehovah God……Because of Scriptures like Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
The way you ask that question makes it look like believers NEED the Mediator in order to worship God. That is simply not true. People were worshiping God long before Jesus became the Mediator. Do you doubt that?
Yes, we do/ Because God cannot look at sin. And in this flesh we will sin…. We go through Christ and not directly to the Throne of Almighty God…..Others, besides I, also have given plenty of Scriptures that prove to worship only Jehovah God. When I pray, I first thank God for all that He has done for us. Then if I want to pray for others I will say so and then say I ask this in Jesus Name. I see it this way, it was Jesus our Savior who died for our sin, therefore I ask for the forgiveness of that Sin through Jesus….Almighty God is all good and IMO He cannot look at anything that is bad…But without Almighty Jehovah God Jesus can't do nothing……Amen…..Peace Irene
Irene,
I think you are confused. When did Jesus become the Mediator? Wasn't it after the resurrection when He was highly exalted?Was He 'the Mediator' during the time of the OT? Did the Jews 'worship' God in the OT even though Jesus was not the Mediator then? If so, then worship did not depend on Jesus being the Mediator. Reconciliation to the Father is why Jesus is the Mediator, worship was possible from the time of Genesis…no mediator necessary for worship. A Mediator is necessary for reconciliation.
Irene,
Did you answer this and I just missed it?Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 04 2010,20:18) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 04 2010,18:11) Hi Shimmer,
I was hoping that you could admit that changing the translation from 'worship' to 'bowing down to' is not necessarily showing any difference. Can you do that?You mentioned this:
Quote “In vain do they worship, teaching as doctrines commandments of men.” …….. And you shall know the truth the truth shall make you free.” …………….”people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.” “God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”…………” And then you say this:
Quote Mother Teresa is one example I believe of true religion. See, no walls. You believe Mother Teresa to having been an example of true religion but do you think that she knows the truth. Didn't she worship Jesus, even Mary? You don't agree with either, right? Didn't she also teach that there were many ways to God, not just through Jesus? Maybe I'm wrong here so please correct me if I am. If I am right, then why would you use her as someone to exemplify 'true religion?'
She certainly was a worthy humanitarian and deserves credit for that but was she really worshiping God in spirit and truth?
Hi,I think for her or anyone else to give up all they have to help others is following Jesus and what he said, how she believes would have no matter, when she sees God one day she will know then. She prayed, she was a Cathlolic, she believed in Jesus, thats all I know.
Actually I will read her book,
Shimmer,
Did you acknowledge the part about 'worship' and 'bowing down' really meaning the same thing at times?That will be interesting to hear what you find out about mother Teresa. I would really like to know if it is true that she didn't really lead people to turn away from other ways to God to follow Christ only. It seems without that message given, her works only led to earthly comfort of those she 'ministered' to and not to their eternal salvation. I wonder why she didn't see the importance of that.
Also, I saw you say that you agree with the whole sun, light, warmth thing. What were you saying about that?
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 05 2010,13:41) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 04 2010,15:54) Quote (Baker @ Nov. 04 2010,12:17) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 03 2010,12:33) Irene, Quote Why would Jesus be our Mediator if we can go directly to both and worship both…..He is not needed then….I only worship Jehovah God……Because of Scriptures like Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
The way you ask that question makes it look like believers NEED the Mediator in order to worship God. That is simply not true. People were worshiping God long before Jesus became the Mediator. Do you doubt that?
Yes, we do/ Because God cannot look at sin. And in this flesh we will sin…. We go through Christ and not directly to the Throne of Almighty God…..Others, besides I, also have given plenty of Scriptures that prove to worship only Jehovah God. When I pray, I first thank God for all that He has done for us. Then if I want to pray for others I will say so and then say I ask this in Jesus Name. I see it this way, it was Jesus our Savior who died for our sin, therefore I ask for the forgiveness of that Sin through Jesus….Almighty God is all good and IMO He cannot look at anything that is bad…But without Almighty Jehovah God Jesus can't do nothing……Amen…..Peace Irene
Irene,
I think you are confused. When did Jesus become the Mediator? Wasn't it after the resurrection when He was highly exalted?Was He 'the Mediator' during the time of the OT? Did the Jews 'worship' God in the OT even though Jesus was not the Mediator then? If so, then worship did not depend on Jesus being the Mediator. Reconciliation to the Father is why Jesus is the Mediator, worship was possible from the time of Genesis…no mediator necessary for worship. A Mediator is necessary for reconciliation.
Irene,
Did you answer this and I just missed it?
First if all, in the Old Testament time, they used a Lamb for the sacrifies of their sins…… Therefore no they did not have a Mediator…..Today we don't have to do that, Christ has been our Lamb and He died for us, so we can live….. He is our High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek…..No more scarifies needed……But all of this has little to do with worship. The reason why i go through Jesus Christ to worship God is because I know that He is our Mediator, and He is without Sin, while I am not…..I also would not worship Jesus. I already said why…..Peace IreneQuote (Baker @ Nov. 05 2010,14:12) The reason why i go through Jesus Christ to worship God is because I know that He is our Mediator, and He is without Sin, while I am not…..I also would not worship Jesus. I already said why…..Peace Irene
Hi Irene,Kathi apparently ignores the fact that a mediator BETWEEN God and mankind cannot be God. Nor can a priest of God be God Himself.
Jesus is both of these things, so how can he actually BE God?
peace and love
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 05 2010,14:55) Quote (Baker @ Nov. 05 2010,14:12) The reason why i go through Jesus Christ to worship God is because I know that He is our Mediator, and He is without Sin, while I am not…..I also would not worship Jesus. I already said why…..Peace Irene
Hi Irene,Kathi apparently ignores the fact that a mediator BETWEEN God and mankind cannot be God. Nor can a priest of God be God Himself.
Jesus is both of these things, so how can he actually BE God?
peace and love
mike
Hi Mike:Good point. And that is what the scripture states 1 Timothy 2:
Quote 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 04 2010,22:55) Quote (Baker @ Nov. 05 2010,14:12) The reason why i go through Jesus Christ to worship God is because I know that He is our Mediator, and He is without Sin, while I am not…..I also would not worship Jesus. I already said why…..Peace Irene
Hi Irene,Kathi apparently ignores the fact that a mediator BETWEEN God and mankind cannot be God. Nor can a priest of God be God Himself.
Jesus is both of these things, so how can he actually BE God?
peace and love
mike
Mike,
You seem to ignore the fact that Jesus is not only the High Priest, and the Mediator but is the God with God from John 1:1, in fact you ignore it, Irene ignores it, and Marty ignores it.Of course God as the Son is not a mediator to Himself but to God as the Father. These two are from one nature, not different natures thus making a God from one nature and another God from a different nature.
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 04 2010,23:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 05 2010,14:55) Quote (Baker @ Nov. 05 2010,14:12) The reason why i go through Jesus Christ to worship God is because I know that He is our Mediator, and He is without Sin, while I am not…..I also would not worship Jesus. I already said why…..Peace Irene
Hi Irene,Kathi apparently ignores the fact that a mediator BETWEEN God and mankind cannot be God. Nor can a priest of God be God Himself.
Jesus is both of these things, so how can he actually BE God?
peace and love
mike
Hi Mike:Good point. And that is what the scripture states 1 Timothy 2:
Quote 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,
God as the Son did not stop being God as the Son when He became the man Jesus Christ. Whenever He is referred to as a man, well that is what God as the Son had to become in order to be the mediator. If He didn't empty Himself and come as a man and lay down His life for us, He could not be the mediator between us and His Father. That is why the verse calls the mediator a man. The Son was both the begotten God and man. Sometimes you will be shown Him as a 'man' and other times you will be shown His divinity.Quote (Baker @ Nov. 04 2010,22:12) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 05 2010,13:41) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 04 2010,15:54) Quote (Baker @ Nov. 04 2010,12:17) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 03 2010,12:33) Irene, Quote Why would Jesus be our Mediator if we can go directly to both and worship both…..He is not needed then….I only worship Jehovah God……Because of Scriptures like Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
The way you ask that question makes it look like believers NEED the Mediator in order to worship God. That is simply not true. People were worshiping God long before Jesus became the Mediator. Do you doubt that?
Yes, we do/ Because God cannot look at sin. And in this flesh we will sin…. We go through Christ and not directly to the Throne of Almighty God…..Others, besides I, also have given plenty of Scriptures that prove to worship only Jehovah God. When I pray, I first thank God for all that He has done for us. Then if I want to pray for others I will say so and then say I ask this in Jesus Name. I see it this way, it was Jesus our Savior who died for our sin, therefore I ask for the forgiveness of that Sin through Jesus….Almighty God is all good and IMO He cannot look at anything that is bad…But without Almighty Jehovah God Jesus can't do nothing……Amen…..Peace Irene
Irene,
I think you are confused. When did Jesus become the Mediator? Wasn't it after the resurrection when He was highly exalted?Was He 'the Mediator' during the time of the OT? Did the Jews 'worship' God in the OT even though Jesus was not the Mediator then? If so, then worship did not depend on Jesus being the Mediator. Reconciliation to the Father is why Jesus is the Mediator, worship was possible from the time of Genesis…no mediator necessary for worship. A Mediator is necessary for reconciliation.
Irene,
Did you answer this and I just missed it?
First if all, in the Old Testament time, they used a Lamb for the sacrifies of their sins…… Therefore no they did not have a Mediator…..Today we don't have to do that, Christ has been our Lamb and He died for us, so we can live….. He is our High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek…..No more scarifies needed……But all of this has little to do with worship. The reason why i go through Jesus Christ to worship God is because I know that He is our Mediator, and He is without Sin, while I am not…..I also would not worship Jesus. I already said why…..Peace Irene
Irene,
You believe the Son is the Mediator because you read that in the scriptures, right? It also says in the scriptures that He is God who was with God in the beginning but you seem to gloss right over that.Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 05 2010,11:34) Pierre, Quote WJ show me here are the scriptures;were is Jesus equal to his father;;
allJn 14:13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.
Jn 14:14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
Jn 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever—
Jn 15:7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.Mt 6:8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
Mt 7:7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
Mt 18:19 “Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.
Mk 11:24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
Lk 11:9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
Lk 11:13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”Jn 16:24 Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.
Jn 16:26 In that day you will ask in my name. I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf.how Jesus says to pray to the father ask the father in his name and he will ask his father and plead so that it will be given to you??
is this not show humility even in heaven??is this the son that ask to be worshiped ??
Pierre
The equality is in their essence.
1:3
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,Do you see that one who is the exact representation of someone's nature would be equal in nature? Is a son equal in nature to his father?
Their Father/Son relationship is not what is equal, their nature is what is equal. It is the nature that makes one a divine being…a divine being is a true God. When one true God comes from another true God as His only begotten Son, then He is the true begotten God from the one true God. Together they fulfill the position of the one saving God over us.
Quote “In that culture, a dignitary's adult son was deemed equal in stature and privilege with his father. The same deference demanded by a king was afforded to his adult son. The son was, after all, of the very same essence as his father, heir to all the father's rights and privileges–and therefore equal in every significant regard. So when Jesus was called “Son of God,” it was understood categorically by all as a title of deity, making Him equal with God and (more significantly) of the same essence as the Father. That is precisely why the Jewish leaders regarded the title “Son of God” as high blasphemy.”
Kathiyou are on your own ,no one in is right mind will follow your views unless he is already dead spiritually
and you are going there,because of your invention of Antichrist ways.
if you do not observe Christ words then you do not observe Gods words either.because Christ was speaking his father words.
Pierre
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