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Hi Shimmer,
Quote I believe there is a difference in bowing down to one, as people do bow down in honour and respect and love, but worship..to worship something, as scripture says is for God alone, as Jesus said is for God alone, to me worship is something else. If I go into a church and they sing and raise up their hands and pray and yell out to Jesus, that is strange to me, though it was what I was raised with, I now see things different, because I know God is the Father, Jesus is the son. I see clealry what Jesus wanted us to do, He showed us the Father, He showed us how to pray, and that I do. When I pray I pray to the Father as Jesus did. But that is just me. Words do make a difference though, as i have shown, the literal translation never says to worship Jesus, but to bow down to, there is a difference i believe.
Shimmer here is what YLT says abuot Luke 4:7-thou, then, if thou mayest bow before me — all shall be thine.'
Yet Jesus still responded with luke 4:8!And Jesus answering him said, 'Get thee behind me, Adversary, for it hath been written, Thou shalt bow before the Lord thy God, and Him only thou shalt serve.'
Say what you want Shimmer, its clear that Jesus qouted the OT because The devil didnt want him to just BOW DOWN to him, but to WORSHIP HIM.matthew 4:9-10-Young's Literal Translation
and saith to him, 'All these to thee I will give, if falling down thou mayest bow to me.'
that doesnt even make sense to FALL down, AND THAN bow?
???
obviously the greek word means to worship.its the same situation.
It is clear that JESUS believed that the greek word for “worship/bowing down” means to worship.
How about John 4:24 anybody?
God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth
Is this to bow down as well?
4352. proskuneó is used as well in this verse.What say you?
???Hi SimplyForgiven… The way I see it, everything is spiritually discerned, what the words mean, weather bow down to or worship, the words can have different meaning to different people.
My mother says she worships Jesus, and she does, maybe not by dictionary definition, but by spiritual terms she does worship Jesus, she sings to Jesus, she plays music to Jesus, she prays to Jesus, all of this is worship.
Have you ever seen sun worshippers, they dance and play music, hold hands and chant etc.
As iv said though, and as i have said to her, where is the Father in all of this ? Do you really think the son wanted people to forget the Father ? What DID Jesus say ? Worship ONLY God.
“You shall have no other God's BEFORE ME” so to me that means, God is first, Jesus is after, All love and prayer is to the Father, The number one command as spoken by Jesus…Love the LORD your God with all your heart and mind and soul and strength…And love your neighbour as yourself…Any mention of Jesus there at all ? Jesus was called Teacher. So I obey the Teacher. And believe me Jesus wont be returning quietly and kindly, it will be quite a sight, the only ones remaining will be those who are loved by the Father. Those who obeyed the son. According to scripture.
Lord = ruler, master, one who exercises authority.
'Why do ye call me, Lord, Lord, and do not what I say?'
'Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into the reign of the heavens; but he who is doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens…….'
'– I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.'
What is the Law..what is lawlessness ?
Jesus said.. 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thine understanding — this is a first and great command; and the second is like to it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself; on these — the two commands — all the law and the prophets do hang.'
shimmer,
im at work but I wil do my best to respond
the point is what did jesus think about what the greek word being used? which is why he responded with OT scripture.
how did he see it? thats what I care about how Jesus thought of the word.
the apostle john worshiped a angel TWICE even after everything he went though.
isnt jesus more than the angels?Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2010,10:07) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 30 2010,11:29) Now for those of you who only want to put up verses using the term proskuneo that apply to the Father, this might help the readers see that there are plenty where the term 'proskuneo' is applied to the Son. Also, this is what I was asking Mike to do…so Mike, I saved you some time 
And here is a list of passages that show that Jesus is receiving the worship “proskuneo” of others and I will especially bold the supernatural acts that were done within the context.
Matt 2:1-2
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
KJVMatt 2:7-8
7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, inquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
KJVMatt 2:11-12
11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
KJVMatt 8:1-4
When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him.
2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.
KJVMatt 9:18-35
18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.19 And Jesus arose, and followed him, and so did his disciples.20 And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:21 For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.23 And when Jesus came into the ruler's house, and saw the minstrels and the people making a noise,24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.25 But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.26 And the fame hereof went abroad into all that land.27 And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have mercy on us.28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.30 And their eyes were opened; and Jesus straitly charged them, saying, See that no man know it.31 But they, when they were departed, spread abroad his fame in all that country.32 As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil.33 And when the devil was cast out, the dumb spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel.34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils.35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
KJVMatt 14:26-36
26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.
27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.
28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
32 And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.
33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
34 And when they were gone over, they came into the land of Gennesaret.
35 And when the men of that place had knowledge of him, they sent out into all that country round about, and brought unto him all that were diseased;
36 And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment: and as many as touched were made perfectly whole.
KJVMatt 15:21-28
21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
KJVMatt 20:20-28
20 Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.
21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
24 And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.
25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let
him be your servant:
28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
KJVMatt 28:8-10
8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
10 Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.
KJVMatt 28:16-20
16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
KJVMark 5:1-20
5 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.14 And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.16 And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine.17 And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts.18 And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.19 Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.20 And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel.
KJVLuke 24:44 – 53
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.John 9:30-39
30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes.
31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.
33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.
34 They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
KJVHeb 1:6
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
KJVTHe point of this exercise was to demonstrate that the people were recognizing Jesus as coming from God and able to do the supernatural acts…they were seeing Him as a KING from heaven and not just another earthly king and they were responding in worship towards Him. He never told them that they were violating the first commandment, not once.
Jesus is to be worshiped WITH His Father, the only true God. They are together divine.
Read the quoted post as evidence that Jesus received 'proskuneo/worship/bowing down to' within the context of doing something supernatural, for the most part.I add this from Psalms 72 about the Messiah who will receive worship from ALL the kings and service from ALL the Gentiles and that is within the plan of God:
In summary, in this passage where the Messiah is receiving proskuneo from ALL the kings and is being served by ALL the Gentiles, you agree that is ok and doesn't violate the first commandment?
Quote
Psalms 72:1 O God, give thy judgment to the king, and thy righteousness to the king’s son; 2 that he may judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment.3 Let the mountains and the hills raise peace to thy people: 4 he shall judge the poor of the people in righteousness, and save the children of the needy; and shall bring low the false accuser. 5 And he shall continue as long as the sun, and before the moon for ever. 6 He shall come down as rain upon a fleece; and as drops falling upon the earth. 7 In his days shall righteousness spring up; and abundance of peace till the moon be removed. 8 And he shall have dominion from sea to sea, and from the river to the ends of the earth. 9 The Ethiopians shall fall down before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust. 10 The kings of Tharsis, and the isles, shall bring presents: the kings of the Arabians and Saba shall offer gifts. 11 And all kings shall worship him; all the Gentiles shall serve him. 12 For he has delivered the poor from the oppressor; and the needy who had no helper. 13 He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall deliver the souls of the needy. 14 He shall redeem their souls from usury and injustice: and their name shall be precious
before him. 15 And he shall live, and there shall be given him of the gold of Arabia: and men shall pray for him continually; and all the day shall they praise him. 16 There shall be an establishment on the earth on the tops of the mountains: the fruit thereof shall be exalted above Libanus, and they of the city shall flourish as grass of the earth.17 Let his name be blessed for ever: his name shall endure longer than the sun: and all the tribes of the earth shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.
18 Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, who alone does wonders. 19 And blessed is his glorious name for ever, even for ever and ever: and all the earth shall be filled with his glory. So be it, so be it. 20 The hymns of David the son of Jessae are ended.
Obviously that is worship to the Messiah!
KathiJas 1:13 When tempted, no one should say,“God is tempting me
(you have been tempted in yourself by your ways.)or
.(god, is enlightening me outside of the word of God)
.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;(not even you Kathi )
Jas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own(that means yourself mind) evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. (by that desire in is hearth to do and not listen to the scriptures but listen to your own mind and ideas )
Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived,(and it seems that you have made your own mind up kathi) it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown,(IS IT FULL-GROWN KATHI??) gives birth to death.
Jas 1:16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers( AND SISTERS)
Pierre
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Nov. 01 2010,16:25) How about John 4:24 anybody?
God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth
Is this to bow down as well?
4352. proskuneó is used as well in this verse.What say you?
???
SFExactly! John 4:24 is a verse I had mentioned repeatedly concerning the word “proskyneō”, yet it has been ignored.
In John 4:20-24 the word “proskyneō” is used 9 times in Jesus discussion with the Samaritan woman about the “True Worship”.
Why did John and Jesus choose the word if he wanted to portray the “True worship” to the Father could mean anything less?
Now here is a tidbit for those who have ears to hear…
Jesus said…
But the hour cometh, and now is, when THE TRUE WORSHIPPERS [GR PROSKYNĒTĒS] SHALL WORSHIP the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. John 4:23
Notice Strong's G4353 – “proskynētēs”, it is a masculine noun which means “worshippers” and is only found ONCE in the NT. It is the root word for the verb “proskyneō”.
So that means that every time you see the verb “proskyneō” it is being performed by someone who is a “worshipper” “proskynētēs”!
In all the scriptures that speak of Jesus being worshipped (proskyneō) why didn’t Jesus once say do not worship me?
To say that it is because Jesus wasn’t being worshipped but just being honored lacks evidence because there are no other NT examples of the word proskyneō being used toward any one with honor other than the Father and Jesus. In every case the word is directed to any other it is refused or it is a worshipping falsely.
The burden of proof is on the gainsayers.
The rhetoric about the word proskyneō not meaning “worship” but just bowing down out of respect is not in the NT.
Please can someone give us a NT example of the word being used in honor to any other than the Father and Jesus? Where is the NT example of a bowing down to someone out of great respect?
Why did Jesus use the word in describing “True Worship” (proskyneō) to God and not rebuke those who worshipped (proskyneō) him?
I am back but still dealing with something in my life very troubling and hard, so don’t expect much posting but I felt I had to jump in here since my name is “WorshippingJesus”.
Keith
proskyneō
1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rankQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Nov. 02 2010,11:24) shimmer,
im at work but I wil do my best to respond
the point is what did jesus think about what the greek word being used? which is why he responded with OT scripture.
how did he see it? thats what I care about how Jesus thought of the word.
the apostle john worshiped a angel TWICE even after everything he went though.
isnt jesus more than the angels?
SimplyForgiven,Jesus would have seen the word worship as something spiritual, and also as the Jews saw the word, and as I have shown, they have a different idea on what worship is of things other than God.
It is not for us to decide to worship Jesus or not but only for us to obey what He said. And He never said that. He said 'Why do you call me good ? There is none good but God'
So do we believe what Jesus said or do we believe what our own minds tell us?..or what other people do,
Jesus said…
` true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also doth seek such to worship him; God [is] a Spirit, and those worshipping Him, in spirit and truth it doth behove to worship.' The woman saith to him, `I have known that Messiah doth come, who is called Christ, when that one may come, he will tell us all things;' Jesus saith to her, `I am [he], who am speaking to thee.'
Here He says true worshippers will worship THE FATHER, He also identifies Himself as the Messiah, The Christ, not as the Father in which He just finished saying will be worshipped in spirit and truth.
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,18:43) It is not for us to decide to worship Jesus or not but only for us to obey what He said. And He never said that. He said 'Why do you call me good ? There is none good but God' So do we believe what Jesus said or do we believe what our own minds tell us?..or what other people do,
ShimmerDo you believe in Jesus statement he is saying “he is not good” or was he prodding the man as to why he called him good?
Jesus also said…
I am the “GOOD SHEPHERD”, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. John 10:14
So if Jesus said to the man that “no one” is good but one “GOD” and then says he was “Good” then that is proof that he is claiming equality with God once again. Read John Ch 10 in its context Jesus is claiming his hands as being equal to the Fathers hands, and that his works are equal to the Fathers works.
This is why they took up stones to kill him.
Yes we do worship the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit in Spirit and in truth for they are ONE. John 10:30
WJ
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,18:36) Hi WorshippingJesus, hope you are doing ok. Sorry again to hear.
Thanks Shimmer!Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,19:11) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,18:43) It is not for us to decide to worship Jesus or not but only for us to obey what He said. And He never said that. He said 'Why do you call me good ? There is none good but God' So do we believe what Jesus said or do we believe what our own minds tell us?..or what other people do,
ShimmerDo you believe in Jesus statement he is saying “he is not good” or was he prodding the man as to why he called him good?
Jesus also said…
I am the “GOOD SHEPHERD “, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. John 10:14
So if Jesus said to the man that “no one” is good but one “GOD” and then says he was “Good” then that is proof that he is claiming equality with God once again. Read John Ch 10 in its context Jesus is claiming his hands as being equal to the Fathers hands, and that his works are equal to the Fathers works.
This is why they took up stones to kill him.
Yes we do worship the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit in Spirit and in truth for they are ONE. John 10:30
WJ
WJJesus really says that he is the “true” SHEPHERD”
Mt 2:6 “ ‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for out of you will come a ruler
who will be the shepherd of my people Israel.’’”
Mt 9:36 When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd.
Mt 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.Mt 26:31 Then Jesus told them, “This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written:
“ ‘I will strike the shepherd,
and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’
Mk 6:34 When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd. So he began teaching them many things.Mk 14:27 “You will all fall away,” Jesus told them, “for it is written:
“ ‘I will strike the shepherd,
and the sheep will be scattered.’
Jn 10:2 The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep.
Jn 10:11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
Jn 10:12 The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.
Jn 10:14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—
Jn 10:16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.wen Jesus says that only” God is Good”this really means that he is the means of all things .
WJ is partial in favor of his believes in is church,not the truth as by the true spirit of scriptures.
God did not came down to earth to save men ,stop your trinity false believes.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 01 2010,20:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,19:11) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,18:43) It is not for us to decide to worship Jesus or not but only for us to obey what He said. And He never said that. He said 'Why do you call me good ? There is none good but God' So do we believe what Jesus said or do we believe what our own minds tell us?..or what other people do,
ShimmerDo you believe in Jesus statement he is saying “he is not good” or was he prodding the man as to why he called him good?
Jesus also said…
I am the “GOOD SHEPHERD “, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. John 10:14
So if Jesus said to the man that “no one” is good but one “GOD” and then says he was “Good” then that is proof that he is claiming equality with God once again. Read John Ch 10 in its context Jesus is claiming his hands as being equal to the Fathers hands, and that his works are equal to the Fathers works.
This is why they took up stones to kill him.
Yes we do worship the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit in Spirit and in truth for they are ONE. John 10:30
WJ
WJJesus really says that he is the “true” SHEPHERD”
Hi Everyone!Pierre infers Jesus is not good! But Jesus says…
I am the “GOOD SHEPHERD “, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. John 10:14
The text does not say “true shepherd” though we know Jesus is “true”.
So who shall we believe, Jesus or Pierre?
Tell us Pierre, was Jesus Good or not? If he is then how do you explain your conundrum?
WJ
Hi Keith,
Welcome back. I hope things are getting better at home for you and yours.
Let's get you up to speed here.
We are all aware of the different uses of “proskueo”. It could mean “God-worship”, or it could just mean bowing down to show reverrence or honor.
1. The man in 2 Samuel 1:2 “proskuneo'd” David. (LXX) Did that mean the man was woshipping David as if he were God?
2. The formerly blind man “proskuneo'd” Jesus right in front of the Pharisees who were looking for a reason to kill Jesus. Do you think accepting “God-worship” would have been reason enough?
3. God said to worship ONLY Him.
4. Jesus said to worship ONLY God.
5. Paul says in Acts 24 that he worships the God of his ancestors, and Paul wasn't confused about who that God was. He calls Him “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” many times.
6. 1 Timothy 2 carries instructions for the worship of God. And verse 4 says, “5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,”. So again, I would say these instructions are for the worship of God………not the “man” who is the mediator BETWEEN God and us. Like Irene points out, what's the use of going through a mediator or priest to come to God if that mediator and priest already IS God?
Hey Keith, your take on the “good teacher” scripture had me laughing. It's good to have you back, even intermittantly.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,21:05) Hi Keith, Welcome back. I hope things are getting better at home for you and yours. We are all aware of the different uses of “proskueo”. It could mean “God-worship”, or it could just mean bowing down to show reverrence or honor.
Hi MikeThanks!
We are not dealing with its use in the OT. We are dealing with Jesus use of the word in John 4 and the NT use of the word.
Now please show us where the NT use of the word does not mean “Worship” but a bowing down with respect!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,12:53) Hi Everyone! Pierre infers Jesus is not good! But Jesus says…
I am the “GOOD SHEPHERD “, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. John 10:14
The text does not say “true shepherd” though we know Jesus is “true”.
So who shall we believe, Jesus or Pierre?
Actually, maybe Pierre is on to something here. It is two different Greek words used in those scriptures. mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,21:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,12:53) Hi Everyone! Pierre infers Jesus is not good! But Jesus says…
I am the “GOOD SHEPHERD “, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. John 10:14
The text does not say “true shepherd” though we know Jesus is “true”.
So who shall we believe, Jesus or Pierre?
Actually, maybe Pierre is on to something here. It is two different Greek words used in those scriptures. mike
MikeIt doesn't matter they both mean “Good”.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,13:18) Now please show us where the NT use of the word does not mean “Worship” but a bowing down with respect!
I see. So if the same Greek word is used of David, it is not worship, but it also doesn't count because that's an OT instance, huh?Okay, how about Rev 3:9?
9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
Was Jesus saying the people of the church of Philadelphia were to be worshipped as God?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,21:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,13:18) Now please show us where the NT use of the word does not mean “Worship” but a bowing down with respect!
I see. So if the same Greek word is used of David, it is not worship, but it also doesn't count because that's an OT instance, huh?Okay, how about Rev 3:9?
9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
Was Jesus saying the people of the church of Philadelphia were to be worshipped as God?
peace and love,
mike
MikeThe scripture is ambiguous because it could read they are worshipping God before their feet!
Are you saying that Jesus is saying they will worship them?
Where is the use of the word as just a bowing down?
WJ
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