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Quote (david @ Oct. 30 2010,01:49) continued….
Although it was a common thing for the Jews to bow before authority to show respect, Mordecai refused to bow before Haman. This was because Haman, as an Agagite, was very likely an Amalekite, concerning whom Jehovah had said that he would completely wipe out their remembrance from under the heavens and that he would have war with Amalek from generation to generation. (Ex 17:14-16) Since bowing down or prostration would have a connotation of peace toward Haman, Mordecai refused to perform this act, because he would have violated God’s command in doing so.—Es 3:5.JESUS
When Jesus was on earth, persons would prostrate themselves before him to petition and to do obeisance to him, and he did not reprove them. (Lu 5:12; Joh 9:38) This was because he was the appointed King, the King-Designate, as he himself said: “God’s royal majesty has approached” (ED); “The kingdom of God has drawn near.” (NW, Mr 1:15) Jesus was the heir to the throne of David and therefore was rightfully honored as a king.—Mt 21:9; Joh 12:13-15.
Jesus receives the proskuneo-ing because that is in line with the first commandment since He IS part of that one God, the Father. He doesn't have anyone worshiping Him as the Father but as the Messiah, Son of David, and the Son of God who the Father considers as much a part of Himself as His own Outstretched Arm, as His own Word, and as the radiance of His own glory.Quote (david @ Oct. 30 2010,01:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,16:45) Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, “It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.' “Not one pen-stroke Kathi.
What people tend not to see about this verse, is that he said: “It is written.”
The quote was a quote from the Heb scriptures about “Jehovah,” the Father.
It was actually written to 'worship Jehovah your God and serve him only.'
They later substituted “Lord” much the way they did in the Heb scriptures, where God's name originally occured thousands of times.The point is: Jesus is clearly saying to obey the written command to “worship Jehovah.”
Jehovah IS one of the names of the SON as well as the Father.Gen 19:24
24 Then the Lord (Jehovah) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord (Jehovah) out of heaven,
NASUQuote (Baker @ Oct. 31 2010,01:38) Good Scripture, I find it amazing, in spite of it all , some still will worship Jesus. In most Churches all you hear on Songs is Jesus, Jesus, Jesus…… chanting His name…..not any better the Catholic Church and the Rosary. Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,Kathi trys to make your scripture “null and void” by claiming “context”. Jesus actually quoted the Septuagint version of Isaiah 29:13, which says in the original Hebrew:
13 The Lord says:
“These people come near to me with their mouth
and honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
Their worship of me
is made up only of rules taught by men.Who is it that says it's right to worship Jesus as God, scripture…………or the MEN that Kathi quotes? Kathi's form of worship “is made up only of the rules taught by men”. No scripture tells us it's okay to worship ANYTHING other than God Himself…….and that includes Jesus.
Irene, you bring up another great point that has been ignored at least twice now that I have seen. Jesus is the “mediator” between God and all of mankind. A mediator, by definition, cannot be one of the parties he mediates between. So Jesus can neither be “God”, nor “all of mankind”.
And on that same line, Jesus is our Priest to God. Like a mediator, a priest is someone who goes between us and God. A priest OF God cannot actually BE God. God cannot be His own “Priest”.
And your logic, “If Jesus is God, and we can go directly to him, then what does 'Mediator' even mean?” cannot be refuted.
I agree about the songs, too. It is a testament to our current “Christian” culture that so many believe Jesus to BE God, that when singing about Jesus, they actually believe they are singing about “God Himself”. Very few recording artists seem to know the difference. I think they should actually open a Bible and find out that Jesus is the SON of our God, Jehovah – and not “God Himself”.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,03:45) He doesn't have anyone worshiping Him as the Father but as the Messiah, Son of David, and the Son of God who the Father considers as much a part of Himself as His own Outstretched Arm, as His own Word, and as the radiance of His own glory.
Hi Kathi,But are we to worship things OF God, or just God Himself? And you agree that Cyrus was also God's “outstretched arm”……but you don't worship Cyrus.
And what scripture tells you the Father “considers Jesus a part of Himself”?
mike
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,10:49) Quote (david @ Oct. 30 2010,01:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,16:45) Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, “It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.' “Not one pen-stroke Kathi.
What people tend not to see about this verse, is that he said: “It is written.”
The quote was a quote from the Heb scriptures about “Jehovah,” the Father.
It was actually written to 'worship Jehovah your God and serve him only.'
They later substituted “Lord” much the way they did in the Heb scriptures, where God's name originally occured thousands of times.The point is: Jesus is clearly saying to obey the written command to “worship Jehovah.”
Jehovah IS one of the names of the SON as well as the Father.Gen 19:24
24 Then the Lord (Jehovah) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord (Jehovah) out of heaven,
NASU
kathi the light of the world?What people tend not to see about this verse, is that he said: “It is written.”
Jehovah IS one of the names of the SON as well as the Father.
WERE IS THAT WRITTEN??you seems to go way beyond the written word of God,
you are now a prophetess??
Pierre
Kathi:
Quote THe point of this exercise was to demonstrate that the people were recognizing Jesus as coming from God and able to do the supernatural acts…they were seeing Him as a KING from heaven and not just another earthly king and they were responding in worship towards Him. No Kathi. Like Nicodemus told Jesus, they were becoming convinced that Jesus must have been sent FROM God:
John 3:2 NIV
2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.”A teacher sent FROM God is a very different thing than “God Himself”.
Kathi:
Quote He never told them that they were violating the first commandment, not once.
Think it out Kathi. That's because no one ever “worshipped” him in a godly way. Otherwise the Pharisees would have had him AND the formerly blind man arrested on the spot – and later killed. Not to mention, if someone had tried to actually worship him in a godly way, he would have rebuked them and probably quoted the same scripture from Deut that he quoted for Satan………..the one about worshipping ONLY Jehovah your God.Kathi:
Quote Jesus is to be worshiped WITH His Father, the only true God. They are together divine.
Says who? Scripture……….or the “traditions of men”?mike
Carrie Underwood How Great Thou Art
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhvaDJTUmrU
The last time I sang this song was in June at my father's funeral. The church was full and the whole congregation sang out which seemed like their whole heart. The congregation was a mixture of many denominations and I felt, for the duration of that hymn that there was a glimpse of that unity that Jesus has for us when we are IN Him. My father also worshiped the Father and the Son by the Holy Spirit and I am confident that He is now ever more so.
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 30 2010,12:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,10:49) Quote (david @ Oct. 30 2010,01:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,16:45) Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, “It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.' “Not one pen-stroke Kathi.
What people tend not to see about this verse, is that he said: “It is written.”
The quote was a quote from the Heb scriptures about “Jehovah,” the Father.
It was actually written to 'worship Jehovah your God and serve him only.'
They later substituted “Lord” much the way they did in the Heb scriptures, where God's name originally occured thousands of times.The point is: Jesus is clearly saying to obey the written command to “worship Jehovah.”
Jehovah IS one of the names of the SON as well as the Father.Gen 19:24
24 Then the Lord (Jehovah) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord (Jehovah) out of heaven,
NASU
kathi the light of the world?What people tend not to see about this verse, is that he said: “It is written.”
Jehovah IS one of the names of the SON as well as the Father.
WERE IS THAT WRITTEN??you seems to go way beyond the written word of God,
you are now a prophetess??
Pierre
Pierre,
If I were a saying that the Son was called Jehovah as one of His names, as a prophetess, then I would be the first to declare it. If you knew your church history as you claim, then you know that the Jehovah that was speaking to Abraham is taught by many throughout history that He was the Word of God, the Son of God. Do you not understand that I am not a prophetess claiming NEW things but agreeing with OLD understanding?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,12:12) Kathi: Quote THe point of this exercise was to demonstrate that the people were recognizing Jesus as coming from God and able to do the supernatural acts…they were seeing Him as a KING from heaven and not just another earthly king and they were responding in worship towards Him. No Kathi. Like Nicodemus told Jesus, they were becoming convinced that Jesus must have been sent FROM God:
John 3:2 NIV
2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.”A teacher sent FROM God is a very different thing than “God Himself”.
Kathi:
Quote He never told them that they were violating the first commandment, not once.
Think it out Kathi. That's because no one ever “worshipped” him in a godly way. Otherwise the Pharisees would have had him AND the formerly blind man arrested on the spot – and later killed. Not to mention, if someone had tried to actually worship him in a godly way, he would have rebuked them and probably quoted the same scripture from Deut that he quoted for Satan………..the one about worshipping ONLY Jehovah your God.Kathi:
Quote Jesus is to be worshiped WITH His Father, the only true God. They are together divine.
Says who? Scripture……….or the “traditions of men”?mike
Mike,
The 'traditions' of men claim that Jesus was equally God as the Father and always existed as a distinct person along with the Father. I am not agreeing with the traditions of men. I am saying that the Son's nature is equally a God's nature, and because the Son is a 'son' He is not the God that begat but the God that was begotten. He always existed within the Father but was not always begotten as a distinct person.There ya go…find that in tradition. It was early church truth but is not the tradition of the church today.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,11:19) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 30 2010,12:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,10:49) Quote (david @ Oct. 30 2010,01:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,16:45) Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, “It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.' “Not one pen-stroke Kathi.
What people tend not to see about this verse, is that he said: “It is written.”
The quote was a quote from the Heb scriptures about “Jehovah,” the Father.
It was actually written to 'worship Jehovah your God and serve him only.'
They later substituted “Lord” much the way they did in the Heb scriptures, where God's name originally occured thousands of times.The point is: Jesus is clearly saying to obey the written command to “worship Jehovah.”
Jehovah IS one of the names of the SON as well as the Father.Gen 19:24
24 Then the Lord (Jehovah) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord (Jehovah) out of heaven,
NASU
kathi the light of the world?What people tend not to see about this verse, is that he said: “It is written.”
Jehovah IS one of the names of the SON as well as the Father.
WERE IS THAT WRITTEN??you seems to go way beyond the written word of God,
you are now a prophetess??
Pierre
Pierre,
If I were a saying that the Son was called Jehovah as one of His names, as a prophetess, then I would be the first to declare it. If you knew your church history as you claim, then you know that the Jehovah that was speaking to Abraham is taught by many throughout history that He was the Word of God, the Son of God. Do you not understand that I am not a prophetess claiming NEW things but agreeing with OLD understanding?
KathiGod does not speak personally to any one exept trough the spirit or trough an envoy,
and Moses ,Abraham ,ect all talk to a envoy of God saying the words of God,
Christ was the envoy of God .ambassador.
not one of God envoy as ever accept to be worshiped.
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,12:00) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,03:45) He doesn't have anyone worshiping Him as the Father but as the Messiah, Son of David, and the Son of God who the Father considers as much a part of Himself as His own Outstretched Arm, as His own Word, and as the radiance of His own glory.
Hi Kathi,But are we to worship things OF God, or just God Himself? And you agree that Cyrus was also God's “outstretched arm”……but you don't worship Cyrus.
And what scripture tells you the Father “considers Jesus a part of Himself”?
mike
Mike,
Not all 'arms' are The Outstretched Arm. One provides temporal service, the other eternal service.You want scripture that implies that the Father and the Son are together as one, or that the Father considers the Son as part of Himself?
I have already discussed the Outstretched Arm as the Son with you and shown you verses to support that. You know that He is called the “Word” of God, and you have been shown that He is the radiance of God's glory.
He is in the Father's bosom, John 1:18.
John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father,[/B} He has explained Him.
NASUHe is in the Father and the Father is in Him.
John 10:38
38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”
NASUJohn 14:10-11
10 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.
11 “Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.
NASUThe Son was IN the Father by nature, we will be IN the Father AND the Son BY GRACE, not by nature.
Quote But are we to worship things OF God, or just God Himself? John 12:44-45
44 And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me.
45 “He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me.
NASUDo not worship in part, of course you want to worship God in His fullness. All that eternal divinity OF God is the fullness of who we worship, which includes His Son.
Nature and all created things are not part of the eternal divinity of God so don't be worshiping nature as if it were somehow always existent in God. Nature had a beginning of existence in every tangible way. It only existed in the mind of God, it was not part of the eternal nature of God.
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 30 2010,12:51) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,11:19) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 30 2010,12:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,10:49) Quote (david @ Oct. 30 2010,01:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,16:45) Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, “It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.' “Not one pen-stroke Kathi.
What people tend not to see about this verse, is that he said: “It is written.”
The quote was a quote from the Heb scriptures about “Jehovah,” the Father.
It was actually written to 'worship Jehovah your God and serve him only.'
They later substituted “Lord” much the way they did in the Heb scriptures, where God's name originally occured thousands of times.The point is: Jesus is clearly saying to obey the written command to “worship Jehovah.”
Jehovah IS one of the names of the SON as well as the Father.Gen 19:24
24 Then the Lord (Jehovah) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord (Jehovah) out of heaven,
NASU
kathi the light of the world?What people tend not to see about this verse, is that he said: “It is written.”
Jehovah IS one of the names of the SON as well as the Father.
WERE IS THAT WRITTEN??you seems to go way beyond the written word of God,
you are now a prophetess??
Pierre
Pierre,
If I were a saying that the Son was called Jehovah as one of His names, as a prophetess, then I would be the first to declare it. If you knew your church history as you claim, then you know that the Jehovah that was speaking to Abraham is taught by many throughout history that He was the Word of God, the Son of God. Do you not understand that I am not a prophetess claiming NEW things but agreeing with OLD understanding?
KathiGod does not speak personally to any one exept trough the spirit or trough an envoy,
and Moses ,Abraham ,ect all talk to a envoy of God saying the words of God,
Christ was the envoy of God .ambassador.
not one of God envoy as ever accept to be worshiped.
Pierre
Actually Pierre,God has spoken through many ways but only one of those 'ways' did He create the world through and only one of those 'ways' is the exact representation of His nature, and only one of those 'ways' is the radiance of His glory and only one of those 'ways' will receive worship from ALL the kings and service from ALL the Gentiles according to the plan of God, and only one of those ways is called 'the Wisdom of God' and 'the Power of God and only one of those ways is called 'the only begotten Son of God' and only one of those ways is called 'the Begotten God':
Heb 1:1-4
1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
NASUQuote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,12:00) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 30 2010,12:51) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,11:19) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 30 2010,12:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,10:49) Quote (david @ Oct. 30 2010,01:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,16:45) Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, “It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.' “Not one pen-stroke Kathi.
What people tend not to see about this verse, is that he said: “It is written.”
The quote was a quote from the Heb scriptures about “Jehovah,” the Father.
It was actually written to 'worship Jehovah your God and serve him only.'
They later substituted “Lord” much the way they did in the Heb scriptures, where God's name originally occured thousands of times.The point is: Jesus is clearly saying to obey the written command to “worship Jehovah.”
Jehovah IS one of the names of the SON as well as the Father.Gen 19:24
24 Then the Lord (Jehovah) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord (Jehovah) out of heaven,
NASU
kathi the light of the world?What people tend not to see about this verse, is that he said: “It is written.”
Jehovah IS one of the names of the SON as well as the Father.
WERE IS THAT WRITTEN??you seems to go way beyond the written word of God,
you are now a prophetess??
Pierre
Pierre,
If I were a saying that the Son was called Jehovah as one of His names, as a prophetess, then I would be the first to declare it. If you knew your church history as you claim, then you know that the Jehovah that was speaking to Abraham is taught by many throughout history that He was the Word of God, the Son of God. Do you not understand that I am not a prophetess claiming NEW things but agreeing with OLD understanding?
KathiGod does not speak personally to any one exept trough the spirit or trough an envoy,
and Moses ,Abraham ,ect all talk to a envoy of God saying the words of God,
Christ was the envoy of God .ambassador.
not one of God envoy as ever accept to be worshiped.
Pierre
Actually Pierre,God has spoken through many ways but only one of those 'ways' did He create the world through and only one of those 'ways' is the exact representation of His nature, and only one of those 'ways' is the radiance of His glory and only one of those 'ways' will receive worship from ALL the kings and service from ALL the Gentiles according to the plan of God, and only one of those ways is called 'the Wisdom of God' and 'the Power of God and only one of those ways is called 'the only begotten Son of God' and only one of those ways is called 'the Begotten God':
Heb 1:1-4
1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
NASU
Kathithats exactly what i said to you,
thanks to confirm it
Pierre
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,04:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,12:12) Kathi: Quote THe point of this exercise was to demonstrate that the people were recognizing Jesus as coming from God and able to do the supernatural acts…they were seeing Him as a KING from heaven and not just another earthly king and they were responding in worship towards Him. No Kathi. Like Nicodemus told Jesus, they were becoming convinced that Jesus must have been sent FROM God:
John 3:2 NIV
2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.”A teacher sent FROM God is a very different thing than “God Himself”.
Kathi:
Quote He never told them that they were violating the first commandment, not once.
Think it out Kathi. That's because no one ever “worshipped” him in a godly way. Otherwise the Pharisees would have had him AND the formerly blind man arrested on the spot – and later killed. Not to mention, if someone had tried to actually worship him in a godly way, he would have rebuked them and probably quoted the same scripture from Deut that he quoted for Satan………..the one about worshipping ONLY Jehovah your God.Kathi:
Quote Jesus is to be worshiped WITH His Father, the only true God. They are together divine.
Says who? Scripture……….or the “traditions of men”?mike
Mike,
The 'traditions' of men claim that Jesus was equally God as the Father and always existed as a distinct person along with the Father. I am not agreeing with the traditions of men. I am saying that the Son's nature is equally a God's nature, and because the Son is a 'son' He is not the God that begat but the God that was begotten. He always existed within the Father but was not always begotten as a distinct person.There ya go…find that in tradition. It was early church truth but is not the tradition of the church today.
That is funny. When you worship both ,Jehovah God and Jesus, you are doing what they are doing, there is no difference what your doing……..it is your doctrine and not of God……. I just don't understand you any longer. You mentioned your Father, I almost want to believe just because He worshiped both Father and Son and Holy Spirit, that you now think it is right to do so. Ask yourself what did Jesus say….?
If that is the case, Jesus would say if you love Mother Father Brother or Sister more then Me, you are not worthy of Me…..Think hard and long about this……
Peace and Love IreneQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 31 2010,03:57) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 31 2010,01:38) Good Scripture, I find it amazing, in spite of it all , some still will worship Jesus. In most Churches all you hear on Songs is Jesus, Jesus, Jesus…… chanting His name…..not any better the Catholic Church and the Rosary. Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,Kathi trys to make your scripture “null and void” by claiming “context”. Jesus actually quoted the Septuagint version of Isaiah 29:13, which says in the original Hebrew:
13 The Lord says:
“These people come near to me with their mouth
and honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
Their worship of me
is made up only of rules taught by men.Who is it that says it's right to worship Jesus as God, scripture…………or the MEN that Kathi quotes? Kathi's form of worship “is made up only of the rules taught by men”. No scripture tells us it's okay to worship ANYTHING other than God Himself…….and that includes Jesus.
Irene, you bring up another great point that has been ignored at least twice now that I have seen. Jesus is the “mediator” between God and all of mankind. A mediator, by definition, cannot be one of the parties he mediates between. So Jesus can neither be “God”, nor “all of mankind”.
And on that same line, Jesus is our Priest to God. Like a mediator, a priest is someone who goes between us and God. A priest OF God cannot actually BE God. God cannot be His own “Priest”.
And your logic, “If Jesus is God, and we can go directly to him, then what does 'Mediator' even mean?” cannot be refuted.
I agree about the songs, too. It is a testament to our current “Christian” culture that so many believe Jesus to BE God, that when singing about Jesus, they actually believe they are singing about “God Himself”. Very few recording artists seem to know the difference. I think they should actually open a Bible and find out that Jesus is the SON of our God, Jehovah – and not “God Himself”.
peace and love,
mike
Yes, Mike, She did not even say anything to my previous post. No Scripture is going to convince Her, I am afraid…..Her mind is made up, and that's it…..I will try it one more time, after that I will leave it alone….I am going to remember that Scripture in Isaiah……and Math. 15:9 fits Her too….That is making me rather sad………Peace and Love IreneQuote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,04:19) Do you not understand that I am not a prophetess claiming NEW things but agreeing with OLD understanding?
Hi Kathi,You left out two words at the end of your sentence. Here, let me fix it for you:
Do you not understand that I am not a prophetess claiming NEW things but agreeing with OLD understanding………OF MEN?
mike
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,04:26) Mike,
The 'traditions' of men claim that Jesus was equally God as the Father and always existed as a distinct person along with the Father. I am not agreeing with the traditions of men.
Again, you're leaving out words. You probably REALLY meant to say:Mike,
The 'traditions' of SOME men claim that Jesus was equally God as the Father and always existed as a distinct person along with the Father. I am not agreeing with the traditions of THOSE men,BUT WITH THE TRADITIONS OF OTHER MEN.Is that what you meant?
And you didn't answer about whether you think a teacher sent FROM God is the same as “God Himself”.
mike
Quote (Baker @ Oct. 31 2010,06:01) That is making me rather sad………Peace and Love Irene
Me too Irene. I go through feelings of pity, sadness, and sometimes anger with her.It's frustrating to watch someone take scriptures meant to say one thing, and twist them into saying we have two Gods.
I hope to see your input on my “Pre-existent Scriptural Database” thread. Don't worry if we post duplicate copies of the same scriptures, because after we have 30 or 40 of them, I will arrange them all according to the Bible Cannon. The we will have a REALLY good and easily accessible database.
That last part goes for you too, Kathi. Will you help?
mike
Hi Kathi,
You taunted me about all the times Jesus was “worshipped” after God perfomed a sign through him. Then you listed them……..great work!
Now I have a game maybe you would like to play so your work wasn't for nothing. Let's start at the top of your list and go down, passage by passage, and using only scriptural information, try to discover which ones of those people were really “worshipping” Jesus as if he was God Himself. And which ones were more likely bowing to show reverence to the one sent FROM God.
Wanna play?
peace and love,
mikeHi Kathi,
15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him. 16 For this is what you asked of the LORD your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of the LORD our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die.”
17 The LORD said to me: “What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.Jesus was that prophet that God promised. JEHOVAH sent this prophet because the people were rightly terrified to have Jehovah speak to them directly. Get it? One person is Jehovah, the other is the prophet OF Jehovah, not “Jehovah Jr.”
And if goes on say the Jesus will speak the words Jehovah gives him to speak, and if anyone doesn't listen, then it will be JEHOVAH, not Jesus, who calls him to account.
You imagine things when you say Abraham knew of two different “Jehovahs”. There is but one.
mike
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