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Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 23 2005,22:53) Hi FYI
“The Lord is the Spirit”
Nick,We have too many conversations that are about to converge. So can we get them down to one thread?
I John 1: 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2005,02:05) Hi FYI,
That's Family.
AMEN,We are promised complete fellowship with God as “adopted” sons.
Revelation 3:20 – Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
John 14:23 – Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Quote (Guest @ June 24 2005,02:57) Revelation 3:20 – Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. John 14:23 – Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Hi FYI,
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Jesus Christ. So if we are born again of water and the Spirit and abide in the Word of God we will enjoy fellowship with the Father and the Son, as the Holy Spirit in us now, and after the resurrection forever.Hi,
Acts 7.41
” And at that time they made a calf and brought a sacrifice to the idol, and were rejoicing in the works of their hands, but God turned away and delivered them up to serve the host of heaven”Does this describe angel worship here? Who can explain it?
Nick,
that is becoming least in heaven. If you also note God turned and allowed them to serve help rekindle the hosts of heaven.
Either way bowing is not the same as it said in REV as I previously posted. Anyhow, the arguement is not going to stop in the forums. As I asked 1 time before name 1 verse in the bible where it states not to worship Christ and I won't, Or name 1 place in the bible whewre it says in the NT to only worship the Father.
S
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 23 2005,10:16) Hi CS,
We are approaching the question from opposite ends. I say we do what we are told, and you say show me what we told not to do. Both are valid but I believe my approach is deeper.
The ten commandments were only introduced by God because God had to. Commonsense had gone out of the window in the behaviours of man and his conscience was no longer a reliable guide so God gave negative boundaries always hoping men would understand that they were not to try to stay within those boundaries but to find the essence. Jesus explained it to the Jews when he came.Love of God and Love of neighbour was the essence.
The commands of Jesus are not negative but positive. They tell us to do things. Those we should do and not look for what is banned so we believe what is not banned is acceptable or good.
What you suggest is right is not commanded.
Nick,3So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
4Therefore, my brethren, you also were ©made to die (D)to the Law (E)through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
5For while we were (F)in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were (G)aroused by the Law, were at work (H)in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
6But now we have been (I)released from the Law, having (J)died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in (K)newness of (L)the [a]Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
7(M)What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? (N)May it never be! On the contrary, (O)I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “(P)YOU SHALL NOT COVET.”
8But sin, (Q)taking opportunity ®through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for (S)apart from the Law sin is dead.
9I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;
10and this commandment, which was (T)to result in life, proved to result in death for me;
11for sin, (U)taking an opportunity (V)through the commandment, (W)deceived me and through it killed me.
12(X)So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? (Y)May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
for (V)you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God
Is Jesus a God?
Your promoting Him like He is. Why disbelieve in the trinity then promote it? I believe your playing both fields. Paul wished not to know the Law. I wish not to know it either. It causes you to sin, If you think eatting red meat is wrong don't eat it. If your neighbor does don't eat it in front of him. If you don't wish to worship Jesus I won't in front of you. I will do it in private. thank you for your concern. I will continue to thank, praise, serve, worship Him in Spirit and in truth. You do what you think is right I will continue to do what the Spirit leads me to do. Do you do what is just required of you or do you press on to your all in all? You often times question people here in their motives and actions, but your responses are very offensive in the fact your in comparison of how close you are with God then others. I am in no way saying that I am greater then you in any way. As a matter of fact I am probably much further from perfection then anyone here. But I hope that Jesus will save my soul from the 2nd death and I will foreverlasting to everlasting be able to serve and worship Him and the Most High God. If this send's me to hell because I choose to worship my risen Lord then let it be. I will continue to hold My Father, God higher then Christ for sending His son to earth to die on the cross for my sins, For creating a way out of the TC that you are preaching. But, I will worship them both just like the hosts of heaven in REV.
S
Interesting concept, not one place in the bible does it say not to worship anyone, but God. It says Don't worship another God. I don't believe Jesus is God.
S
Deuteronomy 5:7-9
7”You shall have no other gods before Me 8You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth 9You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God,Deuteronomy 6:13
You shall [Or reverence] fear only the LORD your God; and you shall worship Him and swear by His name.Deuteronomy 8:19
“It shall come about if you ever forget the LORD your God and go after other gods and serve them and worship them, I testify against you today that you will surely perish.Deuteronomy 11:16
Beware that your hearts are not deceived, and that you do not turn away and serve other gods and worship them.Deuteronomy 30:17
“But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve themExodus 34:14
–for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous GodQuote (callsign @ June 24 2005,07:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 23 2005,10:16) Hi CS,
We are approaching the question from opposite ends. I say we do what we are told, and you say show me what we told not to do. Both are valid but I believe my approach is deeper.
The ten commandments were only introduced by God because God had to. Commonsense had gone out of the window in the behaviours of man and his conscience was no longer a reliable guide so God gave negative boundaries always hoping men would understand that they were not to try to stay within those boundaries but to find the essence. Jesus explained it to the Jews when he came.Love of God and Love of neighbour was the essence.
The commands of Jesus are not negative but positive. They tell us to do things. Those we should do and not look for what is banned so we believe what is not banned is acceptable or good.
What you suggest is right is not commanded.
Nick,3So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
4Therefore, my brethren, you also were ©made to die (D)to the Law (E)through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
5For while we were (F)in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were (G)aroused by the Law, were at work (H)in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
6But now we have been (I)released from the Law, having (J)died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in (K)newness of (L)the [a]Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
7(M)What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? (N)May it never be! On the contrary, (O)I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “(P)YOU SHALL NOT COVET.”
8But sin, (Q)taking opportunity ®through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for (S)apart from the Law sin is dead.
9I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;
10and this commandment, which was (T)to result in life, proved to result in death for me;
11for sin, (U)taking an opportunity (V)through the commandment, (W)deceived me and through it killed me.
12(X)So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? (Y)May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
for (V)you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God
Is Jesus a God?
Your promoting Him like He is. Why disbelieve in the trinity then promote it? I believe your playing both fields. Paul wished not to know the Law. I wish not to know it either. It causes you to sin, If you think eatting red meat is wrong don't eat it. If your neighbor does don't eat it in front of him. If you don't wish to worship Jesus I won't in front of you. I will do it in private. thank you for your concern. I will continue to thank, praise, serve, worship Him in Spirit and in truth. You do what you think is right I will continue to do what the Spirit leads me to do. Do you do what is just required of you or do you press on to your all in all? You often times question people here in their motives and actions, but your responses are very offensive in the fact your in comparison of how close you are with God then others. I am in no way saying that I am greater then you in any way. As a matter of fact I am probably much further from perfection then anyone here. But I hope that Jesus will save my soul from the 2nd death and I will foreverlasting to everlasting be able to serve and worship Him and the Most High God. If this send's me to hell because I choose to worship my risen Lord then let it be. I will continue to hold My Father, God higher then Christ for sending His son to earth to die on the cross for my sins, For creating a way out of the TC that you are preaching. But, I will worship them both just like the hosts of heaven in REV.
S
callsign,The Holy Spirit leads you and those who love righteousness to worship Christ:
Revelation 4:11 – Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Revelation 5: 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
—————-
Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Romans 14: 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Philippians 2:10 – that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
John 8:58 – Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
John 5:18 – Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John 10:33 – The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
Hi cs,
The reason FYI tells you to worship Jesus is because he believes Jesus is the eternal God and so it is entirely logical for him to say this. But the scriptures he has shown you demonstrate clearly that the Father and the Son are different beings that work together for the Glory of the greater being, the Father and God of our Lord Jesus Christ.Be joined to Jesus Christ and worship God in Him. Serve and obey and bow down to your Master and Lord and earn his praise by defending his teachings against these misguided doctrines.
John 5:23 – That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Psalms 2:12 – Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
Kiss the Son…
The Son of God, spoken of in (Psalms 2:7) ; the word used is so rendered in (Proverbs 31:2) ; and comes from another which signifies to “choose”, and to “purify”, or “to be pure”; hence some render it “the elect” or “chosen One”, or “the pure One” F11; and both agree with Christ, who is God's elect, chosen to be the Redeemer and Saviour of his people, and who is pure free from sin, original and actual. And whereas a kiss is a token of love among friends and relations, at meeting and parting, (Genesis 33:11) (Ruth 1:14) ; it may here design the love and affection that is to be expressed to Christ, who is a most lovely object, and to be loved above all creatures and things; or, as it sometimes signifies, homage and subjection, (1 Samuel 10:1) : and it is the custom of the Indians to this day for subjects to kiss their kings: it may here also denote the subjection of the kings and judges and others to Christ, who is Lord of all; or else, as it has been used in token of adoration and worship, (Job 31:26,27) (Hosea 13:2) ; it may design the worship which is due to him from all ranks of creatures, angels and men, (Hebrews 1:6) ; and the honour which is to be given to him, as to the Father, (John 5:22) ; which shows the greatness and dignity of his person, and that he is the true God and eternal life: in the TalmudHi FYI,
You quote Ps 2. If you read it in it's entirety you will see it is prophetic of the time at the end of the Millenial Reign [Rev 20.6-9]when the kings of the world rise up in revolt against the worldwide rule of Jesus Christ and those saved who are priests and reign with him as King. God, in heaven, has installed him as king and laughs at their folly. It ends with a warning to THOSE OF THE WORLD” Now therefore O kings, show discernment; take warning O judges of the earth. Worship the Lord with reverence and rejoice with trembling.
Do homage to the Son, that he not become angry, and you persih in the way. For his wrath may soon be kindled. How blessed are all who take refuge in him”We are not of the world but among those who are taking refuge in him.
Where is God? In Heaven.
Where is the Son? On earth as king.Are they the same being then?
John 5:23 – That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
1 John 1: 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
From Trinity Thread page 236:
Hi cf,
IMO, you can sing to Jesus, for Jesus and about Jesus to the glory of the Father. He is our worthy savior who redeems us to our God. Unfortunately, a lot of the worship songs fail to acknowledge the Father as the one who is God above all, who gave us Jesus.
It is a worthwhile effort for us to read the Psalms as well as all scriptures that speak about gratitude, praise, worship etc in order to have the biblical precedence to guide us. Whatever the acceptable biblical attitude is, is what we should have.
When I sing praises to Jesus (and/or the Father), I am aware of the fact that it is God who reigns over all, who gave me him as my firstborn brother, the Lord of all creation, by whose precious blood my pardon is purchased and I am reconciled to My Father… so I exalt Jesus to the glory of God. I think it is the Rev 5 attitude.
Also Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.15) And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in ONE body: and be ye thankful,
16) Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, sing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
17)And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, DO ALL IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS, giving thanks to God the Father through him.It is important to read all of Colossians and determine who is God in Paul's understanding, and who Jesus is. Also important to note that Jesus worships God.
When we read related verses on praise, WHO is it addressed to? What is meant by Worship of God or Christ? How is it demonstrated or practiced by the saints in the bible?
Also John 11:41: Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, FATHER, I THANK THEE THAT THOU HAS HEARD ME.
I could be wrong but is there an example of Jesus thanking men or any other creature? Is there an example of the Father thanking Jesus or any other creature? And yet it is appropriate for us to thank Jesus and the Father.
So ultimately worship is reserved for the Father as God Almighty who made everything, gave everything, sustains everything through Christ and reigns over all. and yet, we cannot worship God rightly without coming through Christ–who is worthy of our praises, but Christ not as God, but as the son of God.
It's what I understand and do so far.
Hope it's of some help.
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