Worship God the Father only?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 27 2011,23:47)

Mike, Can you have the role of a member on HN and at the same time the role of the moderator?

Kathi,  

Is a “role” a “nature”?  I can see Jesus playing different ROLES like most people often do.  We call it “wearing many hats”, right?

But our NATURE does not change when our ROLES do………………does it?

My nature is “human being” when I'm “Moderator Mike”, as well as when I'm “Member Mike”, right?

[Lightenup]

Mike,
A role is not nature but nature defines roles. A human with a human nature carries out the role of a human. A dog with a canine nature carries out the role of a dog. So, the Son had the nature of God and the nature of man. No other being ever has been dual natured like that. Two natures precludes two different roles. It has never been recorded as saying that He stopped being the person that was the pre-existent Son of God, nor has it been said that He stopped being the Son of Man. He was one person with dual natures and they are distinguished at times yet not separable. When scripture talks about God and the Lamb, for instance, it is showing a distinction with the emphasis on the Son of Man's role.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
Men or women having poor education and communication skills hardly proves that they carry the spirit of truth. It is not a prerequisite to speak poorly in order to have truth. Also, it is certainly not true to say that learned men and women can't have truth because they speak well and are highly educated. The Bible tells us to have witnesses to what we say, can you find witnesses outside of HN to what you say? I can. So, when WE disagree on our understanding of a scripture, then you bring your witness from outside of HN and I will bring mine. Just giving me your opinion does nothing. Show me your witnesses otherwise you just have one man's opinion.

Next time you want to tell me I'm wrong in my understanding of a passage bring evidence, outside of HN that there are more than just you that carry the same view. If you are correct in your understanding it shouldn't be too hard. The Holy Spirit has been leading people into truth for thousands of years, surely many should understand scriptures the way that you do if you were not in error. However, if you were in error, it would be harder to find a witness. So, bring your witness and let's see how credible they are.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2011,23:14)

Pierre has probably forgotten more about scripture than I'll ever know, Kathi.   And just so you know, Jesus is the Messiah, THE ANOINTED ONE OF JEHOVAH GOD.   Jeremiah 30:9 Instead, they will serve the LORD their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them. Ezekiel 34:24 I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the LORD have spoken. Acts 5:30-31 The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. 31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. These verses speak of Jehovah God, AND His anointed one, Kathi.  They are NOT one and the same.  One will be God, and the OTHER ONE will be Prince/King. Do you understand these scriptures?  Do you understand how the Son is a completely different BEING from his own God? peace, mike

Mike,
Jehovah our God is two persons. They both carry out the plan of salvation…one sends the other to add another nature to Himself. The other nature, and the ROLE that it played is referred to many times as distinct, that's all. It isn't such a mystery of you understand that.

Kathi

[terraricca]

Kathi

Quote

Jehovah our God is two persons

this is false ,there is only one God and he is one being ,is name is Jehovah,and his son called THE WORD OF GOD,and also Jesus Christ.is a distinct being ,

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 29 2011,23:05)

Pierre, Men or women having poor education and communication skills hardly proves that they carry the spirit of truth.  It is not a prerequisite to speak poorly in order to have truth.  Also, it is certainly not true to say that learned men and women can't have truth because they speak well and are highly educated.  The Bible tells us to have witnesses to what we say, can you find witnesses outside of HN to what you say?  I can.  So, when WE disagree on our understanding of a scripture, then you bring your witness from outside of HN and I will bring mine.  Just giving me your opinion does nothing.  Show me your witnesses otherwise you just have one man's opinion. Next time you want to tell me I'm wrong in my understanding of a passage bring evidence, outside of HN that there are more than just you that carry the same view.  If you are correct in your understanding it shouldn't be too hard.  The Holy Spirit has been leading people into truth for thousands of years, surely many should understand scriptures the way that you do if you were not in error.  However, if you were in error, it would be harder to find a witness.  So, bring your witness and let's see how credible they are. Kathi

Kathi

Quote

The Bible tells us to have witnesses to what we say, can you find witnesses outside of HN to what you say?

then why do you not produce the scriptures to your views as requested ??

you read scriptures and change the meaning of the words and then see how many people can support those false truth and assume because of their support you deduct that it is true

you have no clue of what truth of God is ,

they fund witnesses at Christ arrest ,but we know that their were false witnesses because they lied,

Pierre

[Pastry]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 29 2011,16:05)

Pierre, Men or women having poor education and communication skills hardly proves that they carry the spirit of truth.  It is not a prerequisite to speak poorly in order to have truth.  Also, it is certainly not true to say that learned men and women can't have truth because they speak well and are highly educated.  The Bible tells us to have witnesses to what we say, can you find witnesses outside of HN to what you say?  I can.  So, when WE disagree on our understanding of a scripture, then you bring your witness from outside of HN and I will bring mine.  Just giving me your opinion does nothing.  Show me your witnesses otherwise you just have one man's opinion. Next time you want to tell me I'm wrong in my understanding of a passage bring evidence, outside of HN that there are more than just you that carry the same view.  If you are correct in your understanding it shouldn't be too hard.  The Holy Spirit has been leading people into truth for thousands of years, surely many should understand scriptures the way that you do if you were not in error.  However, if you were in error, it would be harder to find a witness.  So, bring your witness and let's see how credible they are. Kathi

Kathi! I take offense in that statement. Georg has more truth then anyone here on Heaven Net does. And He did not finish High School because of the war. Intellect does not come from any kind of Education. God has given those who have that ability to know the truth, or those who do not, by His Holy Spirit. So you owe all those who do not have the Education you might have gotten.
But you know what? I find Georg more humble then anyone I know…..
Peace and Lvo0e Irene

[Lightenup]

Irene,
I never said that people without education cannot have the ability to know truth. Good grief! No need to be offended.
I was explaining that lacking education does not make one automatically know truth or visa versa.
It is the Spirit that leads us into all truth, not education. However, there are very educated people that have the Spirit that communicate truth very clearly and should not be ignored, IMO.

Blessings,
Kathi

[Pastry]

Quote

Pierre, Men or women having poor education and communication skills hardly proves that they carry the spirit of truth.  It is not a prerequisite to speak poorly in order to have truth.

You said that those who have poor education, hardly carry the spirit of truth.  OK what do you mean by that?  Is it that they don't have the spirit of truth?  That is what I read out of it.  Don't down play what you really said….
When Jesus came who did He call to be His Apostles?  Teachers, Scribes, Pharisees?

Act 4:13 ¶ Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
And this what Paul said about the wisdom of the world.
1Cr 1:19   For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.  
1Cr 1:20   Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?  

1Cr 1:25   Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.  

1Cr 1:26 ¶ For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]:  

1Cr 1:27   But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;  

Peace and Love Irene

[942767]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 29 2011,16:10)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2011,23:14) Pierre has probably forgotten more about scripture than I'll ever know, Kathi.   And just so you know, Jesus is the Messiah, THE ANOINTED ONE OF JEHOVAH GOD.   Jeremiah 30:9 Instead, they will serve the LORD their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them. Ezekiel 34:24 I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the LORD have spoken. Acts 5:30-31 The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. 31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. These verses speak of Jehovah God, AND His anointed one, Kathi.  They are NOT one and the same.  One will be God, and the OTHER ONE will be Prince/King. Do you understand these scriptures?  Do you understand how the Son is a completely different BEING from his own God? peace, mike Mike, Jehovah our God is two persons.  They both carry out the plan of salvation…one sends the other to add another nature to Himself.  The other nature, and the ROLE that it played is referred to many times as distinct, that's all.  It isn't such a mystery of you understand that. Kathi

Hi Kathi:

No, Jehovah our God is not two persons, but the Father and Son are two distinct persons united in “one spirit”. The Son is submitted to God to accomplish his purpose.

Quote

Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Quote

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Lightenup]

Irene,

You are taking it all wrong.
you said:

Quote

You said that those who have poor education, hardly carry he spirit of truth

This is what I said:
Men or women having poor education and communication skills hardly proves that they carry the spirit of truth.

Someone seemed to be trying to make a case that scriptures teach that unlearned men spoke from God and that should tell us that all unlearned men that speak poorly speak from God. My point was to say that being unlearned or learned would not be why people speak for God. There has to be the Spirit in them, teaching them, whether they are educated or not does not matter. Education does help though, or do you deny this? Are you not 'for' getting a college education? Are you not 'for' understanding the original language that the Bible was written in?

I was encouraging someone to prove their understanding is not just their own but from God. Showing verification of their understanding with the writings of scholarly Christians can help show them as having a witness to their understanding although it doesn't prove it, it helps demonstrate that the person is not inventing a new idea.

For example, if I said this verse means thus and so…
and you said, no this verse means a different thus and so…
Where do we go from there? We can verify our understanding with other scriptures and if that still doesn't convince the other, we can show the writings of educated men and women and/or early Christians who confirm our 'thus and so' understanding. That should at least make one consider that they may be in error. If people do not want to seek truth then they will probably just write that those opinions are of men and so what. Still, they have not brought any educated Christian person's writings or early Christian's writings to the discussion to back up what their understanding is. As far as I am concerned, the person is not very persuasive who cannot bring any witnesses that shares their understanding.

To sum up, if one wants to be more effective in convincing another, then have more than your own witness outside of HN.

There, I hope you understand now.
Kathi

[Lightenup]

Marty,
You don't even accept that the Son pre-existed so I don't expect you to 'get it' that Jehovah is the name for the unity of two persons.

Love to you,
Kathi

[942767]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2011,07:04)

Marty, You don't even accept that the Son pre-existed so I don't expect you to 'get it' that Jehovah is the name for the unity of two persons. Love to you, Kathi

Hi Kathi:

I have given you the scriptures that support what I believe.

In order to convince me that Jehovah is two persons, you will also have to give me scripture to support your statement.

I do not believe that you can do this, because God is not going to say one thing in place and another somewhere else.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi Kathi:

I just re-read what you stated in the above post. You say that Jehovah is the name for the unity of two persons. I still do not see a scripture for this, but this statement “the name for the unity of two persons” is different that your previous statement which was “Jehovah is two persons”.

The name “Jesus” means “Jehovah is salvation”, and the Father and the Son are united in this purpose.

But they are two different persons, or souls, each with a mind, a will, and emotions. They are “one in the spirit”.

Jesus existed in the heart of the Father from before the foundation of the world, but not a sentient person until his birth into this world.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

kathi

Quote

For example, if I said this verse means thus and so… and you said, no this verse means a different thus and so… Where do we go from there? We can verify our understanding with other scriptures

yes this is the true way ,if this is not enough ,inventing does not reflect Gods Glory,

If scriptures does not have the answer it is because we do not need the answer to be saved,

we all will come to the full knowledge of God in time,

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
No one is inventing anything if they find another with the same understanding.

[Lightenup]

Quote (942767 @ July 29 2011,15:36)

Hi Kathi: I just re-read what you stated in the above post.  You say that Jehovah is the name for the unity of two persons.  I still do not see a scripture for this, but this statement “the name for the unity of two persons” is different that your previous statement which was “Jehovah is two persons”. The name “Jesus” means “Jehovah is salvation”, and the Father and the Son are united in this purpose. But they are two different persons, or souls, each with a mind, a will, and emotions.  They are “one in the spirit”. Jesus existed in the heart of the Father from before the foundation of the world, but not a sentient person until his birth into this world. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,
If I said the church is made of many members, could I also say that the body of Christ is named the Church? Would both of those statements be true?

People can say things more than one way to try to bring clarity to the same idea.

Jehovah is the name of the unity of two persons in a similar way that the word 'church' is a name of the unity of many persons. The word 'church' is not the name of a person but the name of the unity of several persons.
The word 'Jehovah' is not the name of a person but the name of the unity of two persons.

You are right that they are two different persons, each with a mind, will, and emotions, imo. They are united in every way possible including nature, while maintaining their distinction of Father and Son.

Jesus existed in the Father as a sentient person and then was begotten from the Father to minister with the Father. IMO.

What specifically do you need scriptures for because I don't want to take more time than I must?
Kathi

[Pastry]

Kathi! Your claim about Jehovah is not according to any Scripture. Jehovah God is one God.

Psa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.

Now if you know of a Scripture that says otherwise, then claim it.

As far as our other disagreement goes, reading it again you say either or visa verso….

Peace Irene

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2011,16:11)

Pierre, No one is inventing anything if they find another with the same understanding.

Kathi

what you saying let me pose a minute,

that ;the God his the father of Christ the son ,and that the father and the son have a close relationship because of being, that the son is his first creation, is that what you imply ?

and under that view ;we see the father given to the son receiving and given to others, is it ??

and it is this closeness that created the view of unity ?

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
It amazes me that you say that I say the son was His first creation. Come on…the Son was not created.

These little comments you make about my understanding are very telling of your comprehension. It is no wonder you are not understanding.

[Author]

Posts