Worship God the Father only?

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ July 22 2011,12:03)

…but then at other times you see Him walking on water, rebuking the storm, feeding 5000, raising the dead, healing the blind and sick supernaturally, being the wisdom and power of God.

He acted both as natural man and supernatural deity.

If you don't believe that God was acting on behalf of Jesus from Jesus' own words, then believe on account of the miracles, Kathi. Jesus said something similar to this himself.

July 24, 2011 at 2:38 pm#253477

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ July 23 2011,07:10)

Pierre,
If you don't know those elementary answers, you need to study your Bible, not ask someone that you automatically insult every one of their responses. I am not interested in entertaining you. I'm going to pass…not worth my time, sorry. I would rather spend my time helping someone.

Kathi

Maybe you could just address ONE of Pierre's points, Kathi.

Explain to us why Jesus is God's CHRIST. What does “Christ/Messiah” mean?

This will help us to help you.

peace,
mike

July 27, 2011 at 3:54 am#253921

Participant

Mike,
Why should I answer that, don't you know the answer? Why don't you help Pierre study the Bible so that he doesn't have to ask such elementary questions? We can't just spoon feed him all the time. That doesn't help him grow in his apologetics.

Kathi

July 27, 2011 at 4:01 am#253924

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2011,09:36)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 22 2011,12:03)

…but then at other times you see Him walking on water, rebuking the storm, feeding 5000, raising the dead, healing the blind and sick supernaturally, being the wisdom and power of God.

He acted both as natural man and supernatural deity.

If you don't believe that God was acting on behalf of Jesus from Jesus' own words, then believe on account of the miracles, Kathi. Jesus said something similar to this himself.

The Father and Son act on behalf of each other. The Father asks things of His Son and the Son asks things of His Father.
They submit to one another.

9“So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10“For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. 11“Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 12“Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? 13“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

Did you ever give in to your child's request when you did not initiate the desire within him that led to the request? Isn't your relationship with your son a kind of give and take?

Kathi

July 27, 2011 at 4:14 am#253927

Blocked

Pierre has probably forgotten more about scripture than I'll ever know, Kathi.

And just so you know, Jesus is the Messiah, THE ANOINTED ONE OF JEHOVAH GOD.

Jeremiah 30:9
Instead, they will serve the LORD their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.

Ezekiel 34:24
I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the LORD have spoken.

Acts 5:30-31
The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. 31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.

These verses speak of Jehovah God, AND His anointed one, Kathi. They are NOT one and the same. One will be God, and the OTHER ONE will be Prince/King.

Do you understand these scriptures? Do you understand how the Son is a completely different BEING from his own God?

peace,
mike

July 27, 2011 at 4:44 am#253933

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2011,22:14)

Pierre has probably forgotten more about scripture than I'll ever know, Kathi.

And just so you know, Jesus is the Messiah, THE ANOINTED ONE OF JEHOVAH GOD.

Jeremiah 30:9
Instead, they will serve the LORD their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.

Ezekiel 34:24
I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the LORD have spoken.

These verses speak of Jehovah God, AND His anointed one, Kathi. They are NOT one and the same. One will be God, and the OTHER ONE will be Prince/King.

Do you understand these scriptures? Do you understand how the Son is a completely different BEING from his own God?

peace,
mike

Mike

if I ask her a simple question she refuse to answer ,so she keep cutting scriptures in half verses and interpret them also half way ,

we can discuss Gods word but if we do not understand why he written his word to human kind then how are you to understand what he says or mean ,

many ask stupid question in reality they are not stupid but it looks that if the person read just more in scriptures he will find most common answers and it will help him to see what God really want him to do,

the way Gods word talk to us is when we read it and if we read it with our heart then God open our eyes and our heart so that the knowledge and understanding goes deep in side of us and stay,so it can increase in time.

some are believing that they know God better than he knows himself,they do that by ignoring the scriptures and do not believe in them ,talking with there lips on one side but there heart telling something else.

this is a no name product.

Pierre

July 27, 2011 at 1:54 pm#253965

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2011,23:14)

Pierre has probably forgotten more about scripture than I'll ever know, Kathi.

And just so you know, Jesus is the Messiah, THE ANOINTED ONE OF JEHOVAH GOD.

Jeremiah 30:9
Instead, they will serve the LORD their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.

Ezekiel 34:24
I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the LORD have spoken.

These verses speak of Jehovah God, AND His anointed one, Kathi. They are NOT one and the same. One will be God, and the OTHER ONE will be Prince/King.

Do you understand these scriptures? Do you understand how the Son is a completely different BEING from his own God?

peace,
mike

Mike,
The pre-existent Son has always been a part of Jehovah, our God, the Son is the Lord of lords.

The Messiah is the pre-existent Son when He became flesh, the Son of Man in flesh.

It is the Son of Man in flesh that is distinct from Jehovah our God. Jehovah our God is not a man. The Son of man is a man. The Son of God pre-existed the Son of man.

Kathi

July 27, 2011 at 1:59 pm#253966

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2011,23:14)

Pierre has probably forgotten more about scripture than I'll ever know, Kathi.

And just so you know, Jesus is the Messiah, THE ANOINTED ONE OF JEHOVAH GOD.

Jeremiah 30:9
Instead, they will serve the LORD their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.

Ezekiel 34:24
I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the LORD have spoken.

These verses speak of Jehovah God, AND His anointed one, Kathi. They are NOT one and the same. One will be God, and the OTHER ONE will be Prince/King.

Do you understand these scriptures? Do you understand how the Son is a completely different BEING from his own God?

peace,
mike

You both need to know who Jehovah our God is. Pierre and you do not seem to know this. Both of you need to not just learn scripture but who the Jehovah of scripture is. Only then will your building stand on a firm foundation.

He is both God of gods (the Father) and Lord of lords (the Son).

Deut 10:17 “For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.

Kathi

July 27, 2011 at 6:01 pm#253994

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 28 2011,07:59)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2011,23:14)

Pierre has probably forgotten more about scripture than I'll ever know, Kathi.

And just so you know, Jesus is the Messiah, THE ANOINTED ONE OF JEHOVAH GOD.

Jeremiah 30:9
Instead, they will serve the LORD their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.

Ezekiel 34:24
I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the LORD have spoken.

These verses speak of Jehovah God, AND His anointed one, Kathi. They are NOT one and the same. One will be God, and the OTHER ONE will be Prince/King.

Do you understand these scriptures? Do you understand how the Son is a completely different BEING from his own God?

peace,
mike

He is both God of gods (the Father) and Lord of lords (the Son).

Deut 10:17 “For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.

Kathi

you say that you know Jehovah God ,and I showed you that God of gods and Lord of lords, and how the same thing is applied to Christ in Revelation Lord of lords and king of the kings of the earth,
right ,?

but you do not seem to accept truth from scriptures ,you try by all your might to convince us all of you delude mind to prove that God the father is depending on his creation this is not in scriptures this is the reason why you can not find scriptures to support your idea ,so you twist and cut corners to bring in some words and made up story to support that unscriptural and fiction idea,

2Pe 1:18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.
2Pe 1:19 And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. this is not the way of the apostles;
2Pe 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit

Jn 17:6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
Jn 17:14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.
Jn 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

this is not your word that the scriptures talking about Kathi it is Gods word,

Pierre

July 27, 2011 at 8:35 pm#254013

Participant

Pierre,
you said:

Quote

Yes, I have been showing that Jesus is the Lord of lords just like it says in Rev. and that just confirms what I have been saying about who is the Lord of lords in Deut. 10:17.

Remember that the pre-existent Son, the Lord of lords in Deut 10:17 became Christ, He wasn't always Christ. He was to become the Christ though. When He became Christ, He did not stop being the pre-existent Son who was the Lord of lords in Deut 10:17.

2 Pet 1:18 shows that the God of gods (the Father) was speaking about His Son, the Lord of lords. They were not one being, but this clearly shows that they are two beings. They form one unity, not one being.

July 27, 2011 at 8:39 pm#254015

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2011,09:32)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 22 2011,00:12)

You will find the Son referring to the Father as His God when speaking from the perspective of the human nature.

No Kathi,

Jesus does not exist with “two natures”. Jesus WAS existing in the spirit nature of his God (Phil 2), but then for a time, existed with the nature of man. He now exists ONLY with the spirit nature again. And as a spirit being who exists, not WITHIN GOD or as PART OF GOD, but at the right hand OF his God, he intecedes WITH his God on our behalf.

Jesus is a spirit being who is other than and lessor to the God who brought him forth.

This is what the scriptures teach. They will remain teaching this truth despite your attempts to mangle and twist them.

mike

Mike,

The Son did not give up His deity nature to come in the flesh Mike. You can't give up your own nature but He added another nature to it and still has both natures.

The scriptures never say that He emptied Himself of His nature.

Kathi

July 27, 2011 at 9:16 pm#254023

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 28 2011,14:35)

Pierre,
you said:

Quote

Yes, I have been showing that Jesus is the Lord of lords just like it says in Rev. and that just confirms what I have been saying about who is the Lord of lords in Deut. 10:17.

Kathi

2Pe 1:18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.

THIS IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT PETER REFFERS TO ,

Ex 19:17 Then Moses led the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain.
Ex 19:18 Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the LORD descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, the whole mountain trembled violently,
Ex 19:19 and the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder. Then Moses spoke and the voice of God answered him.

Dt 10:11 “Go,” the LORD said to me(Moses), “and lead the people on their way, so that they may enter and possess the land that I swore to their fathers to give them.”
Dt 10:12 And now, O Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul,
Dt 10:13 and to observe the LORD'S commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good?
Dt 10:14 To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it.
Dt 10:15 Yet the LORD set his affection on your forefathers and loved them, and he chose you, their descendants, above all the nations, as it is today.
Dt 10:16 Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer.
Dt 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.

this is not the scriptures that 2Peter reffers to ,

SO YOU SEE KATHI THIS IS YOUR WAY ,NEVER USE OR HARDLY USE TRUTH FROM SCRIPTURES ONLY YOU OWN DELUTED VIEWS,

Pierre

July 28, 2011 at 1:44 am#254079

Participant

Pierre,
You offer only your opinion. No apologetics.

Kathi

July 28, 2011 at 2:42 am#254091

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 28 2011,19:44)

Pierre,
You offer only your opinion. No apologetics.

Kathi

kathi

why should do one apologetic demonstrating that you do not tell the truth ,

clear demonstration in scriptures do not require much explanation unless you can not read what is not your case,

you refuse to eat because i did not present you the dish in the way your eyes like it ,

you pay more attention to men s world than to God words of live

but it is your s ,

Pierre

July 28, 2011 at 3:01 am#254096

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ July 27 2011,07:54)

It is the Son of Man in flesh that is distinct from Jehovah our God. Jehovah our God is not a man. The Son of man is a man. The Son of God pre-existed the Son of man.

So you preach TWO separate Sons – one of them a man and the other God?

And then you try to “smooth it over” by saying “ONE person, TWO natures”.

Can a dog also have the nature of a cat, Kathi? God could change the dog INTO a cat, but then the creature would ONLY have the nature of a cat – not BOTH.

Come out of her, Kathi.

July 28, 2011 at 5:47 am#254143

Participant

Mike,
Can you have the role of a member on HN and at the same time the role of the moderator? Yet you are the same person, right? You are not two separate persons, but one person with two different personnas.

Jesus is both the Son of God and the Son of Man. Jesus did not exist as the Son of Man until He came in the flesh and then He was the Son of God who became ALSO the Son of Man and remains this way even today. The Son of Man personna is distinct from Jehovah our God which is the name of the unity of both the Father and the Son.

You were Mike the member for months before you became Mike the Moderator, true? Now, is it the member who gives tiles or the moderator? It is Moderator Mike that gives the tiles, not Member Mike. See how there is a distinction of two personnas within one person. If I said all HN members have the potential to be tiled by Moderator Mike. You are both, one of the HN members and also the one that is distinct from the members as Moderator Mike. Btw, I think you should already have a couple tiles from yourself…long ago

Simple!

Kathi

July 28, 2011 at 5:54 am#254144

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2011,21:42)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 28 2011,19:44)

Pierre,
You offer only your opinion. No apologetics.

Kathi

kathi

why should do one apologetic demonstrating that you do not tell the truth ,

clear demonstration in scriptures do not require much explanation unless you can not read what is not your case,

you refuse to eat because i did not present you the dish in the way your eyes like it ,

you pay more attention to men s world than to God words of live

but it is your s ,

Pierre

Pierre,
Between you and I there are almost constant differences in our views of the same scripture. What you can't seem to do, that I can often do is present verification through scholars, for my view. You need more witnesses to your view in the form of scholars to give you any credibility. There are other Spirit led scholarly believers down through history…it didn't just start with you. Your understanding should have other witnesses in the writings of scholars, not just a couple of your fellow fishermen here, imo. You ought to have the testimony of two or more to verify your opinion, other than that, it is only opinion, not necessarily true or false.

Kathi

July 28, 2011 at 6:17 am#254147

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 28 2011,23:54)

Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2011,21:42)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 28 2011,19:44)

Pierre,
You offer only your opinion. No apologetics.

Kathi

kathi

why should do one apologetic demonstrating that you do not tell the truth ,

clear demonstration in scriptures do not require much explanation unless you can not read what is not your case,

you refuse to eat because i did not present you the dish in the way your eyes like it ,

you pay more attention to men s world than to God words of live

but it is your s ,

Pierre

Kathi

I am well aware of what you do in your presentation and sometimes it is good ,

but what i have against you is that you do not present the truth in scriptures but the believes that those early people had,and it seems of no importance to you ,

so i figure that you do not care about God s true word,

and so i stop you the best i can and show you what it should be according to scriptures ,

do you know how many fisherman became apostles?

and one of them told ;;Ac 4:18 Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus.
Ac 4:19 But Peter and John replied, “Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God’s sight to obey you rather than God.
Ac 4:20 For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.”
this was spoken to the leaders and the Sanhedrin

and Jesus spoke to those fisherman

Jesus began to speak first to his disciples, saying: “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
Lk 13:21 It is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into a large amount of flour until it worked all through the dough

you see how untruth view are infiltrated and by whom,are you one of those who are part of that yeast ?

do you now see why they most were fisherman ?

we all be judged according to our words and action ,I do not want any losing there live that God as in reserve to all of us,

Pierre

July 28, 2011 at 10:02 pm#254219

shimmer

Participant

John 7:14 – But when it was now the midst of the feast, Jesus went up into the temple and taught. The Jews therefore marveled, saying, “How does this man know letters, having never been educated?”

Acts 4:13 – Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus.

1Cor. 2:1 – When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

1Cor 2:4 – And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power.

1Cor 2:13 – And these are the things which we say, not in the language of man's wisdom, but in words given to us by the Spirit, judging the things of the spirit by the help of the Spirit.

1Cor 1:17 – For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

July 29, 2011 at 3:58 am#254246