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Kerwin.
Do you agree now that the Word is a male? Not female.
He is the head of the church of God.wakeup.
Kerwin.
Do you also agree that the Word was not just a spoken Word,
but a living being?
He is coming again as a living being called THE WORD OF GOD.rev.19.wakeup.
Wakeup,
The word is more than God’s spoken word as the bible is also called the word. Since the bible is called the word those who have it written on their heart and placed in their inward parts are even more-so the word. Jesus is not only one of them but he is also the way others have the word paced in them and written on their hearts by God using his Spirit.
Revelations 19:11 does not tell us that Jesus is something other than the word that comes out of God mouth. It tells us that Jesus, at the time spoke of, is called by the name of that which comes out of the mouth of God.
Scripture, such as Deuteronomy 28:10, also speaks of many human beings that are called by the name of God and yet despite the use of the same form as in Revelations 19:13 you are properly able to understand that these people are not God and that Scriptures speaking of God, or the Lord, are not speaking of them. It is only because you have been taught that the word in John 1 is the preexistent Jesus Christ that leads you to believe that Revelations 19:13 is evidence the word in John 1 is Jesus Christ even though you know that Scripture teaches Jesus Christ originated in his mother.
Wakeup,
Jesus Christ is not the word that comes out of the mouth of God. God speaks and does his word through Jesus so since Jesus is the head of the church God’s word is also the head of the church. Jesus is male and the word is not even though it is personalized as a male in some cases.
Wakeup,
I am not saying that the word is a living being. I am instead saying the word is treated as if it were a living being in some passage of Scripture, such as John 1, and that the word that comes our of the mouth of God is incarnated in the human being Jesus Christ.
Kerwin.
1.By God’s Word were all things created.Y/N?
2.That same Word was made flesh.Y/N?
3.That same Word that created all things dwelleth amongst flesh.Y/N?
4.That same Word is coming again as the Word of God.Y/N?True christians are not all the Word of God;but given the the flesh of the Word to eat.
They have received what they have eaten, and walked in that spirit; whch is the spirit of Christ.
The many have eaten the flesh of Babylon ,and walked in the spirit of babylon.wakeup.
t8 wrote:Yet angels also appear in a glorious form to the point that the observer falls down to worship the angel. This is true of Christ too. But we have the transfiguration to help us figure this out. Jesus was a man, yet he became glorious like we read about in Revelation where his eyes are like fire etc.
The transfiguration is a good point, t8. There is no reason to have showed that transfiguration to the disciples if Jesus was never going to have that appearance anyway. If he was bound to be a regular looking human being forever – then why show him in that glorified state?
Kerwin.
We as true christians dont speak of reincarnation.
The Word that came out of God’s mouth is given a form.
And he created all things.
Is that imposible to you?wakeup.
Wakeup wrote:Mikeb.
This is what proverbs 8 truly said; Yours needs to be corrected.
Proverbs 8:22 ***The LORD possessed*** me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
(NOT CREATED;BUT POSSESSED = IN GOD’S POSSESSION).Playing around with scriptures will only get you in a mess.
Get your conscience clear, or stay as it is and live with it.Proverbs 8:22
New International Version
“The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;New Living Translation
“The LORD formed me from the beginning, before he created anything else.Holman Christian Standard Bible
The LORD made me at the beginning of His creation, before His works of long ago.International Standard Version
“The LORD made me as he began his planning, before his ancient activity commenced.NET Bible
The LORD created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Lord Jehovah created me at the beginning of his creation and from before all of his works.”MSG ©
“GOD sovereignly made me–the first, the basic–before he did anything else.BBE ©
The Lord made me as the start of his way, the first of his works in the past.NRSV ©
The LORD created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of long ago.From NETNotes:
There are two roots קָנָה (qanah) in Hebrew, one meaning “to possess,” and the other meaning “to create.”The earlier English versions did not know of the second root, but suspected in certain places that a meaning like that was necessary (e.g., Gen 4:1; 14:19; Deut 32:6).
Ugaritic confirmed that it was indeed another root.
Although the idea is that wisdom existed before creation, the parallel ideas in these verses (“appointed,” “given birth”) argue for the translation of “create” or “establish”….
Wakeup, as I have shown you many times, the KJV is not always right. And as I have pointed out for you, even YOUR bizarre understanding of God speaking a literal word into existence calls for God CREATING a living, breathing entity who did not exist before the time that God “spoke it into existence”.
sonofGod wrote:Where in Philippians 2:6-8 does it stateJesus existed in the form of God BEFORE being made in the likeness of a human being
Where does the word BEFORE appear in that passage?
Philippians 2:6-11 goes in chronological order. For example, God didn’t give Jesus the name above all names BEFORE he became obedient to death, did He? Yet the words “BEFORE” or “AFTER” aren’t in verses 8 or 9…… are they? So tell me how YOU know that Jesus humbled himself to death BEFORE God exalted him to the highest place?
Now, does it make sense that Jesus was already a human being WHILE he was existing in the form of God, emptied himself, and WAS MADE in the likeness of a human being?
How does someone who is ALREADY a human being get “made in the likeness of a human being”?
So here’s the truth of the matter, sonofGod: You and I both KNOW that Jesus died on the cross BEFORE God exalted him to the highest place. And we know this despite the fact that the word “BEFORE” is not in the text, right? Likewise, I KNOW – from the chronological order of events Paul stated – that Jesus was existing in the form of God BEFORE he emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being.
But because you have your own pre-conceived notions to protect, you are able to understand that Jesus died BEFORE being exalted to the highest place – but will not allow yourself to understand the same chronological chain of events in verses 6-8.
That is your problem…… not mine. But tell me one thing HONESTLY: Can you really honestly hold it against me for understanding it the way I do? Is there any scriptural reason to NOT understand that entire passage in chronological order? Or only personal reasons?
t8 wrote:God didn’t create a human being on the spot to save us, no he sent his only begotten son, the first-born of all creation. He paid the highest price to save our souls.
Exactly! God didn’t create just any old human being, and decide that this one particular human being (that He didn’t know any better than the rest of us) would become “His Son”, and die for our sins. What sacrifice would that be?
Instead, God sent His very BEST into the world. He sent His FIRSTBORN Son who He had known and loved from before the world even began.
t8 wrote:Yes, Wakeup. I agree. The Word that was IN God, he begat, and then the Word was WITH God. And God made all things through him and for him.
Please explain. Does this mean “The Word” has existed FOR ETERNITY “in God”, and is in fact a “part of God”? Because these are the things Wakeup claims.
Wakeup wrote:Kerwin.
The Word was a spirit being formed into the image of God.See? God FORMED this spirit being, Wakeup. Exactly what I’ve been telling you for a long time.
sonofGod wrote:
Where in Philippians 2:6-8 does it stateJesus existed in the form of God BEFORE being made in the likeness of a human being
Where does the word BEFORE appear in that passage?Philippians 2:6-11 goes in chronological order. For example, God didn’t give Jesus the name above all names BEFORE he became obedient to death, did He? Yet the words “BEFORE” or “AFTER” aren’t in verses 8 or 9…… are they? So tell me how YOU know that Jesus humbled himself to death BEFORE God exalted him to the highest place?
Now, does it make sense that Jesus was already a human being WHILE he was existing in the form of God, emptied himself, and WAS MADE in the likeness of a human being?
How does someone who is ALREADY a human being get “made in the likeness of a human being”?
So here’s the truth of the matter, sonofGod: You and I both KNOW that Jesus died on the cross BEFORE God exalted him to the highest place. And we know this despite the fact that the word “BEFORE” is not in the text, right? Likewise, I KNOW – from the chronological order of events Paul stated – that Jesus was existing in the form of God BEFORE he emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being.
But because you have your own pre-conceived notions to protect, you are able to understand that Jesus died BEFORE being exalted to the highest place – but will not allow yourself to understand the same chronological chain of events in verses 6-8.
That is your problem…… not mine. But tell me one thing HONESTLY: Can you really honestly hold it against me for understanding it the way I do? Is there any scriptural reason to NOT understand that entire passage in chronological order? Or only personal reasons?
Philippians 2:5-10
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
So, then what Jesus think of himself? That he was a spiritual being that existed before his human form?
Really?
Well, then verse 5 indicates that you should think of yourself in the same terms
Why would you change from a spiritual being and become flesh?
The teaching is that no matter how cushy our current position in life is, we should be willing to empty ourselves of that high position, and give up everything for the will of God, and the good of others. (Matt 19:16-22)
You’ll notice in verse 22, that man did NOT have the mind of Jesus in him – for Jesus indeed DID empty himself of the cushiest position of all, for the will of God and the good of others.
I asked you a question in that last post, sonofGod:
How can a person who is ALREADY human BE MADE in the likeness of a human being?
The teaching is that no matter how cushy our current position in life is, we should be willing to empty ourselves of that high position, and give up everything for the will of God, and the good of others. (Matt 19:16-22)
You’ll notice in verse 22, that man did NOT have the mind of Jesus in him – for Jesus indeed DID empty himself of the cushiest position of all, for the will of God and the good of others.
I asked you a question in that last post, sonofGod:
How can a person who is ALREADY human BE MADE in the likeness of a human being?
Where do you get that idea?
Again, you do err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God
The verses 6-8 sum up Jesus Christ’s decision to humble himself and to obey God
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.After all, this passage is an exhortation for us to not only continue to obey God, but to energize or exercise our salvation.
1. We, being sons of God, are in the form of God.
2. therefore, we should not think it robbery to be equal with God
3. We should empty ourselves, make ourselves of no reputation. Philippians 3 tells us that Paul emptied himself of his “right” to worldly acclaim
4. We should take on the form of a servant, even though, we too, are sons of the most High God.
5. After all, we were made in the likeness of men, not God
6. We, being found in the fashion of men, (not God) should humble ourselves before God and learn obedience and do obedience, even if it costs us everything.
For certainly serving God is the greatest lifestyle any man could ever attain to
Please explain. Does this mean “The Word” has existed FOR ETERNITY “in God”, and is in fact a “part of God”? Because these are the things Wakeup claims.
I am not sure what Wakeup subscribes to here exactly, but the word is an attribute of God, just as wisdom is, and as light is. They are still attributes and always will be. They were not another until God begat the Word to be beside himself.
Jesus is to us, Wisdom from God, the Light of the world, and the Word of God. Like wisdom and logos, God somehow expressed these attributes of himself and begat another who we know as Yeshua the one who came in the flesh to save us. Previous to his coming to us, he was the Word that was with God. He existed in God’s form. I guess you could say, previous to the Word being with God, there was only God and his logos was and still is an attribute of himself. When God directly begats another, the birth is from himself and his attributes are expressed in another.
Logically speaking, who ever was the first to be with God would have to have been begotten solely of God as there was no other parent. The first besides God had to have derived 100% from God. Thus why we see that all creation came through him because God brings us into being through the woman, he made the woman from the man, the man was created by God through the Word, and the Word that was with God, well he had to have come from God.
As we read in scripture: The head of the woman is the man, the head of the man is Christ, the head of Christ is God.
God created all things through the Logos. It equally says that he also created all things through Jesus Christ the son. Further, it is written that in the beginning was the Word, and we read elsewhere that Wisdom was there in the beginning. Wisdom was begotten of God and became the helper at God’s side. This BTW, is where Yeshua is now. At the right hand side of God in the glory he had with the Father before there was a universe.
Can you explain to me in your view how Jesus was rich and became poor?
2 Corinthians 8:9
For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.Can you explain how he existed in the form of God, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men?
Why is it that some read these verses and change them from their most obvious reading?
Can you explain to me who was the first to be with God if it was not Yeshua before he came in the flesh?
And do you acknowledge that whoever the firstborn of all creation is, he would be very special and technically speaking the most special of all besides God himself?
t8 wrote:……God somehow expressed these attributes of himself and begat another who we know as Yeshua the one who came in the flesh to save us. Previous to his coming to us, he was the Word that was with God. He existed in God’s form. I guess you could say, previous to the Word being with God, there was only God and his logos was and still is an attribute of himself
I am becoming even more confused. In my understanding, there was ONLY God in the beginning. There existed NO OTHER living, sentient entity except for God Himself. Then came the day that God created “Wisdom/The Word/Jesus” as the first of His creative works. So we went from one living, sentient entity to TWO living, sentient entities.
There was a time when there was only ONE, and then later, there came a time when there was TWO.
I can’t tell if you understand these things the same way, as it seems you are saying God “begot” the Word, but also that the Word was already existing within God when He begot him. So here is a simple question, to get to the bottom of it:
Has the Word of God always existed as a sentient being? Or did God cause a sentient being to come into existence at some point in the past?
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