What does it mean that Jesus came in the flesh?

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Phil 3
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

So you agree the new body is different?

[NickHassan]

Quote (kerwin @ May 21 2014,07:39)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2014,02:37) Hi KW “Body of this death” Nick, Spiritual dead.  That is why he is alive in his mind at the same time.

Hi KW
Rom 7
“24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”

BODY OF THIS DEATH
not spiritually dead

Does spiritually dead appear in scripture?

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2014,02:25)

Hi KW, Phil 1 21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. 23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. 25 And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;

Nick,

That one seems complicated as he seems to change meanings from one use to another. I think I see what you are getting at then he appears to have changed topic.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Same topic.
We leave the flesh for a better place

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2014,04:30)

Hi KW, Same topic. We leave the flesh for a better place

n

it seems that you blame all things on your flesh this is not the case ,

your flesh is not you ,but of you

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2014,02:40)

Hi KW, Be careful how you speak of Paul. His heart was of God but his Body was yet influenced by “sin in the flesh”. Death would free him and he wanted to die. .Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Nick,

In that passage he is speaking of being freed from servitude to sin. Her was a wretch when he was a servant to sin.

Paul under the Law of Mosses, a servant of sin.

Romans 7:5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Paul under the new covenant, freed from servitude to sin.

Romans 7:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2014,04:30)

Hi KW, Same topic. We leave the flesh for a better place

Nick,

The passage seems complicated so I want to look at it better.

It may be because I looked at it in the older English of the AV of the KJV.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Rom 7
 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

In his flesh DWELLED no good thing.
Sin DWELLED in him

What you read is not what is written
Philosophy substituted for truth?

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2014,04:40)

Hi KW, Rom 7  For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. In his flesh DWELLED no good thing. Sin DWELLED in him What you read is not what is written Philosophy substituted for truth?

Nick

instead of quoting scriptures why are not explain each verse of what it means ,what Paul really want to focus on ,

please enlighten me

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
That is the work of the Spirit

[kerwin]

Nick,

I have looked at it again and he is speculation on his death that he does not feel will happen.  Should I die I will be with Christ.  The statement seems to depart from where it is written other places that the dead go to Sheol.  The dead do not have flesh so he may be being literal or he may just be speaking of mortal flesh or a combination of the two.

In the case of resurrection a person's body comes back where it was buried in every example in Scripture and I never heard this occurred with Paul.

Mike also thinks that the soul of certain individuals are literally under the heavenly altar though I myself believe that is a symbolic reference.

I simply lack evidence though perhaps it has something to do with the spirit of man returning to God.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
So you do not understand him?

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2014,04:51)

Hi T, That is the work of the Spirit

Nick,

Yes and no. Remember the words of 2 Timothy 3:16.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2014,04:55)

Hi KW, So you do not understand him?

Nick,

I think I have most of it but not the part I told you about. It is about death in part but not the resurrection.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
2 tim 3

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The gates of sheol cannot hold those in Christ.

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

They go to his mansions
.John 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2014,04:51)

Hi T, That is the work of the Spirit

n

so you are not born of the spirit after all

[kerwin]

Nick,

There are those that use teach and train in righteousness but their efforts are in vain if the student is not also being taught by the Spirit.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 19 2014,20:45)

Lets address your “knowledge” assumption. As Nick would say, If John didn't then why do you presume to know? You seem to be just trying to make a point and not keep consistent within your own doctrine.

Kerwin,

1 John 3:2 isn't the verse that gives us a hint about what we will be like.

All you need to take away from 1 John 3:2 is that the body Jesus now has is not the body he dwelled on earth with for 40 days after his resurrection.

The disciples saw him for those 40 days, yet John said he hadn't yet seen Jesus “as he is”.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 20 2014,16:23)

Quote (kerwin @ May 21 2014,07:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2014,02:37) Hi KW “Body of this death” Nick, Spiritual dead.  That is why he is alive in his mind at the same time. Hi KW Rom 7 “24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”   BODY OF THIS DEATH not spiritually dead Does spiritually dead appear in scripture?

Kerwin,

How can a BODY be either “spiritual” or “unspiritual” in the way you want to use those words?

A PERSON can be “spiritual” or “unspiritual”, in the sense of walking in the ways of God.

But not a BODY.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 20 2014,16:40)

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Romans 7:18 NET ©
For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For I want to do the good, but I cannot do it.

That supports what I said in my last post. “FLESH” can neither be “spiritual”, nor “unspiritual”, Kerwin.

Good use of scripture, Nick.

[Author]

Posts