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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2014,11:31) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 21 2014,13:17) Of course we would not say “Mike” or anyone else “Came in the flesh” in everyday conversation………..
Agreed. Thank you, 2B.
But the truth is that we wouldn't use that phrase EVER concerning the earthly life of any regular human being.
We would NEVER say, “Napoleon came in the flesh between 1769 and 1821.”
The phrase is useless to say about any human UNLESS that human existed as something OTHER THAN flesh before “coming in the flesh”.
That is not what I said. I was disagreeing with you. Please quote what I said in context.
Quote Of course we would not say “Mike” or anyone else “Came in the flesh” in everyday conversation, but then again, did anyone ever say that “Mike was Spirit only and not Flesh”? because that is what they said of Jesus (Gnostics 101) and Jesus was the King. You, Mike, are not the King. BTW, I am not wanting to get into a discussion on this, I was simply pointing out that you were wrong in what you said to another poster (Son Of God).
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2014,09:33) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,13:42) And God sends Michael to destroy the assyrians.
How do you know that was Michael?
Mike b.Micha'el is always the warior.
Gabri'el is for God's messages.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2014,09:26) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2014,04:09) I am told that Mosses spoke face to face with God and yet never saw his face. Exodus 33:11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
Exodus 33:20
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
The Hebrew idiom “see His face” refers to having a “one on one” with Him. In other words, talking DIRECTLY to God. It doesn't refer to a human being actually seeing the literal face of God.That being said, God most definitely has a body – face and all. The angels are allowed to literally see His face, and some of them do so on a daily basis. (Matthew 18:10)
We also know that God has a throne upon which He sits and rules. We can also read scriptures that speak of God “standing” here or there. We also know that God created both the angels and mankind in His image – and they have bodies.
I could go on, but Kerwin is hard-headed, and will believe what he wants to believe no matter what we say, Wakeup.
Better to just walk away from this one.
Quote Better to just walk away from this one. I agree Mike,But lets not give up on him.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2014,07:27) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2014,09:33) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,13:42) And God sends Michael to destroy the assyrians.
How do you know that was Michael?
Mike b.Micha'el is always the warior.
Gabri'el is for God's messages.wakeup.
WYou invented the answer or do you have scriptural info
Wakeup,
Quote The fact that Moses could not see the face;tells us that it was God speaking to Moses;through His Word. It was angels that decreed God's word to Mosses and he mediated between the angels and the people.
The point is that Moses could not literally seen God's face since God was only there through the angels. So in what way did Moses see God face to face? In what way would it have killed him to see God's face?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2014,04:26) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2014,04:09) I am told that Mosses spoke face to face with God and yet never saw his face. Exodus 33:11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
Exodus 33:20
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
The Hebrew idiom “see His face” refers to having a “one on one” with Him. In other words, talking DIRECTLY to God. It doesn't refer to a human being actually seeing the literal face of God.That being said, God most definitely has a body – face and all. The angels are allowed to literally see His face, and some of them do so on a daily basis. (Matthew 18:10)
We also know that God has a throne upon which He sits and rules. We can also read scriptures that speak of God “standing” here or there. We also know that God created both the angels and mankind in His image – and they have bodies.
I could go on, but Kerwin is hard-headed, and will believe what he wants to believe no matter what we say, Wakeup.
Better to just walk away from this one.
Mike,The phrase “see God's face” has more that just the literal meaning as you pointed out. So why would you claim that only the literal one applies to Matthew 18:10 or in any other use.
I believe God created the dimensions of space. So before God created the heavens and the earth there was no width, no height, and length for a body to have. A body of the dimensions 0 x 0 x 0 is nothing.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,15:10) Wakeup, Quote The fact that Moses could not see the face;tells us that it was God speaking to Moses;through His Word. It was angels that decreed God's word to Mosses and he mediated between the angels and the people.
The point is that Moses could not literally seen God's face since God was only there through the angels. So in what way did Moses see God face to face? In what way would it have killed him to see God's face?
KDo you know that Christ is the image of God and it could be well that it was Jesus that spook to moses all of the time , and so in a way sew God face to face ,
And Jesus is the only one that fit The WORD of God shoes
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2014,15:28) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,15:10) Wakeup, Quote The fact that Moses could not see the face;tells us that it was God speaking to Moses;through His Word. It was angels that decreed God's word to Mosses and he mediated between the angels and the people.
The point is that Moses could not literally seen God's face since God was only there through the angels. So in what way did Moses see God face to face? In what way would it have killed him to see God's face?
KDo you know that Christ is the image of God and it could be well that it was Jesus that spook to moses all of the time , and so in a way sew God face to face ,
And Jesus is the only one that fit The WORD of God shoes
T,Wakeup believes different than you. Unlike you he does not believe Jesus is an angel.
I do know that it is only in these last days God has spoke to his people through his Son. Hebrews 1:1-2 teaches us that.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,20:10) Wakeup, Quote The fact that Moses could not see the face;tells us that it was God speaking to Moses;through His Word. It was angels that decreed God's word to Mosses and he mediated between the angels and the people.
The point is that Moses could not literally seen God's face since God was only there through the angels. So in what way did Moses see God face to face? In what way would it have killed him to see God's face?
Kerwin.To see God's face one would die.
Mount Horeb's peak is black: burned by God being there.
Moses appearence did shine when He came down from that mountain.Isaiah and Ezekiel saw the chariot of God,like flames of fire.
Saw one like a man sitting on his throne,but not His face.wakeup.
Wakeup,
The people of Genesis and later believed that seeing an angel could result in their death. It is written than angels ordained the law through a mediator.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2014,18:02) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2014,07:27) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2014,09:33) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,13:42) And God sends Michael to destroy the assyrians.
How do you know that was Michael?
Mike b.Micha'el is always the warior.
Gabri'el is for God's messages.wakeup.
WYou invented the answer or do you have scriptural info
T.Here are those scriptures on a gold plate your honour.
Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, *Michael*, one of the *chief princes*, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me
***in these things*, but Michael your prince***.Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall *Michael* stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: *Michael* and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2014,18:48) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2014,18:02) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2014,07:27) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2014,09:33) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,13:42) And God sends Michael to destroy the assyrians.
How do you know that was Michael?
Mike b.Micha'el is always the warior.
Gabri'el is for God's messages.wakeup.
WYou invented the answer or do you have scriptural info
T.Here are those scriptures on a gold plate your honour.
Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, *Michael*, one of the *chief princes*, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me
***in these things*, but Michael your prince***.Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall *Michael* stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: *Michael* and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels.
wakeup.
wthank you ,
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 21 2014,17:31) I was simply pointing out that you were wrong in what you said to another poster………….
Show me.Quote the statement/claim I posted, and then show me how it is wrong.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,03:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2014,04:26)
The Hebrew idiom “see His face” refers to having a “one on one” with Him. In other words, talking DIRECTLY to God.
Mike,The phrase “see God's face” has more that just the literal meaning as you pointed out. So why would you claim that only the literal one applies to Matthew 18:10 or in any other use.
Point taken. Matthew 18:10 could also be the idiomatic use of the phrase.Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,03:23) I believe God created the dimensions of space. So before God created the heavens and the earth there was no width, no height, and length for a body to have. A body of the dimensions 0 x 0 x 0 is nothing.
Okay, let's run with that. When God created that very first thing that wasn't God Himself, what separated God FROM that thing that wasn't God?For example, you think God first created space itself. When He did that, what separated God FROM infinite space? What was it that stipulated that God is HERE, but not THERE? He has to have some kind of a body/barrier that separates what IS Him from what it NOT Him.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,03:49) I do know that it is only in these last days God has spoke to his people through his Son. Hebrews 1:1-2 teaches us that.
Possibly, Kerwin.But the wording of Hebrews 1:1 doesn't explicitly exclude Jesus from being one of the “various ways” God spoke to the people before Jesus came to earth.
Consider:
Hebrews 1
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets (including Jesus) at many times and in various ways (including through Jesus), 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us (ONLY) by his Son……….Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,19:27) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2014,09:33) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,13:42) And God sends Michael to destroy the assyrians.
How do you know that was Michael?
Mike b.Micha'el is always the warior.
Gabri'el is for God's messages.wakeup.
Do you assume that God has only ONE “warrior angel”, and only ONE “messenger angel”?If so, why?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2014,09:32) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,19:27) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2014,09:33) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,13:42) And God sends Michael to destroy the assyrians.
How do you know that was Michael?
Mike b.Micha'el is always the warior.
Gabri'el is for God's messages.wakeup.
Do you assume that God has only ONE “warrior angel”, and only ONE “messenger angel”?If so, why?
Mikeb.Scripture tells us that there are only four chief angels.
Micha'el must have His whole armie under Him.
Gabriel did not need an armie.
1.Micha'el.
2.Rapha'el.
3.Gabri'el.
4.Phanu'el. all are in charge of different tasks.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2014,11:12) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 21 2014,17:31) I was simply pointing out that you were wrong in what you said to another poster………….
Show me.Quote the statement/claim I posted, and then show me how it is wrong.
I did.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2014,12:25) Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 19 2014,12:50) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 1. Are you saying that if the angel Gabriel was changed into a human being, we couldn't sensibly say that he “came in the flesh”?
Reply to question 1:“What if the cow jumped over the moon?”
Hypothetical, is truth hypothetical?
Your question can indeed be answered, although you left it a little vague, and therefore it could be answered a million different ways.Here, let me help you out a little:
Mike, if the cow jumped over the moon, would we be able to sensibly say that a cow had been to outer space?
Now, let me show you the difference between a direct and honest answer from someone who is having a serious discussion, and a silly answer from someone who just wants to play games.
Serious Answer: I can't think of any valid reason why we COULDN'T say the cow had been to outer space, if he in fact jumped all the way over the moon……. so “YES”.
Silly Answer: Show me from the history books that a cow ever jumped over the moon!
Do you see the difference? Now let's try my question.
If God decided to cause the spirit being Gabriel to be born of a human woman and dwell on earth as a flesh human being for a while, would we be able to sensibly say that Gabriel “came in the flesh”?
Serious Answer: Absolutely! We could say he “came in the flesh”, “was made flesh”, “took on flesh”, “partook in flesh”, and even “was made in the likeness of a human being”. And each one of those answers would have the same underlying meaning: A spirit being was transformed into a flesh being.
Silly Answer: Show me in scripture where Gabriel was caused to become a human being!
See the difference? And here's something that's worth noting: Anyone with half a brain can easily see that the one answering the question with the silly answers is going out of his way to AVOID answering the question for real. So when intelligent people on this site see a “non-answer” like that, we already know that the one who asked the question was right, because the other guy can't even bring himself to give an honest and direct answer. You should keep that in mind in the future.
Now, seeing that I've answered my own question for you with an answer you know is correct, but couldn't bring yourself to post, let's think about that answer for a minute.
If a spirit being was ever to be made into a flesh being, not only would it be possible to sensibly say that being “came in the flesh”, but that phrase would probably be the most sensible way to convey the thought.
On the other hand, if a person was originally born as a flesh being, it would NEVER be said that he “came in the flesh”.
Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 19 2014,12:50) Jesus is a man, there fore he came in the flesh.
Your first answer above is circular, since it relies on you insisting that Jesus was never anything except for flesh, in order to prove that the phrase, “he came in the flesh” could be said about a man who was never anything other than flesh.Circular answers are also considered “silly” and “non-answers” around here – just so you know.
Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 19 2014,12:50) I am a man, I came in the flesh.
Your second answer is an empty and baseless claim………. UNLESS you can show that the phrase, “he came in the flesh” IS an idiom to describe the earthly existence of someone who was born as a human being, and never existed as anything other than a human being.You saying it about yourself doesn't really count for anything. But perhaps you could Google it and find out if the phrase “he came in the flesh” was ever used to describe someone's earthly existence.
If you can find something like that, you may have a point. If you cannot, then you don't.
Nice chat, sonofGod. Hopefully we'll have some more of them as time goes by.
Quote Of course we would not say “Mike” or anyone else “Came in the flesh” in everyday conversation, but then again, did anyone ever say that “Mike was Spirit only and not Flesh”? Because that is what they said of Jesus (Gnostics 101) and Jesus was the King, you are not. As I said, of course we don't say in everyday conversation that somebody “came in the flesh” but we are talking about JESUS here, and there were many who claimed that Jesus did NOT come in the flesh (Gnostics) in those days. So those words, “Jesus came in the flesh” had more meaning than you would apply to everybody else.
Also, I found your reply quite rude to another poster.
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