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Mike……..So i can also say the Glory I had with the Father before the world began right?< because scripture confirms it , what is man that thou are mind full of him (that is me i am a man) that though visits him , you have made him a little lower then the angles , you have crowned him with “GLORY” and “HONOR”, and have put “ALL” things under His feet. So it looks like I have “HAD” GLORY and HONOR with GOD the FATHER, before the World began.
You see I “HAD” “GLORY” and “HONOR” and all thing put under my feet, already, and scripture confirms it. Not even to mention other scriptures like “Who He “FOREKNEW” he “PREDESTINED”. to be conformed to the IMAGE of HIS SON. So he foreknew Jesus and Foreknew Me and we both “HAD” GLORY and HONOR with HIM before the foundations of the earth Right?
I don't recall every yet having that CROWN of GLORY and HONOR,and all things put under my feet, bestowed on Me YET, even though it says I was “CROWNED” a past tense wording . Does that help you better understand Mike.
Jesus only “HAD” GLORY in the plan and will of GOD MIKE. He has Now received that planned Glory, Just as it says But what do we see?, we see Jesus “NOW” Crowned with GLORY and Honor, and all power and authority has “NOW” been given to Him. Mike he never had that before His resurrection from the dead, it was in the Plan and will of God and after his resurrection he then received that Glory afforded Him from the foundations of the earth.
peace and love to yo and yours………………………………..gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2013,11:41) Doesn't really matter though, because like I said, even if you keep it as, “the glory I HAD”, it still speaks of JESUS as the one who actually HAD that glory before the world began.
Mike…….Do you honestly believe Jesus has “NOW” the “SAME” Glory and Power Had before his, berth, death and Resurrection, So show us ONE SCRIPTURE that SHOW some of the Past glory he supposedly “was having” then. What amazing is you can not produce even one support scripture can you Mike.When God says something, it is as if it has already happened so Jesus' Glory was inclusively in who and what he was to become , it had nothing to do with any Literal GLORY he was EXPERIENCING, before his berth, death, and Resurrection on this earth. No more the King CYRUS experienced his glory before he was ever born or mankind in a general sense has experienced the predestined glory and honor afforded him in the future.
peace and love to you and yours…………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2013,06:02) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,22:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2013,06:34) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,12:00) Mike, He stated that those who received the word of God were called gods in Scripture. The only ones I know that received the word of God were the children of Israel.
Psalm 82 is about spirit beings, Kerwin……. not men.What sense would it make to tell a MAN that he was going to die like a MAN?
You just need to think things out.
Is that the only scripture you have?
Mike,You mean angels whose bodies are not immaterial.
Then you disagree with Jesus who clearly states it is the ones that received God's word and not those who were created with it in their inward being and written on their mind.
I'm sorry. Could you point out for me the scripture that says angels were all created with God's word in their inward being, and written on their mind?
Mike,This is what is states of humans.
Jeremiah 31:32-34
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: 33 but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Do you believe angels will have less than those that enter the new covenant? I don't. I do believe those that enter the new covenant will become like angels in having the law written in their inward parts and write it on their hearts. I also believe this leads to the angels being like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2013,06:41) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 20 2013,09:33) Mike………It is not “was having” it is, “I HAD” , just as Kerwin said .
Well, hopefully you are smart enough to see how Kerwin was just proven wrong by the facts of the matter.It is very telling that you guys are both having a very hard time with the LITERAL translation of, “I WAS HAVING”, or, “I KEPT ON HAVING”.
Have we discovered a chink in the armor?
Doesn't really matter though, because like I said, even if you keep it as, “the glory I HAD”, it still speaks of JESUS as the one who actually HAD that glory before the world began.
Those words will NEVER speak of a glory GOD had, and was holding FOR Jesus………. no matter how much common sense you want to throw out the window.
Now, I noticed that neither of you answered the “honesty” question I asked you yesterday. Shall I assume that was because your answer is, “YES Mike, it is EASY for us to see how you can understand it the way you do” ?
At any rate, this will be another “honesty” issue for you both. You now know the facts of the literal translation. So, will you both continue to buck AGAINST those facts until the cows come home? Or will you stop and think, “Maybe…….. just maybe, there IS something to this pre-existent Jesus thing” ?
Mike,From what I saw there is no literal translation of the Koine Greek word. In fact there may Jesus may not have even implied the “I' part and there are several choices for the last part as I already pointed out.
Mike,
Quote In John 17:5, the word “eichon” is written in the first person singular form……… which in the imperfect tense means, “I kept on having/holding”. In Matthew 27:16, the word “eichon” is written in the third person plural form…….. which in the imperfect tense means, “THEY kept on having/holding”.
So whether you prefer “having” or “holding”, the fact is that JESUS is the one who was having/holding that glory.
The first person singular means “I' according to my testing. Thank your for the correction.
I am still am fine with I had.
Mike,
Quote Also consider the parallel use of “with you” in 17:5. “Father, glorify me WITH YOU (in your presence) with the glory I kept on holding/having WITH YOU (in your presence) before the world began.”
If the first “with you” implies that Jesus is ready to finish up on earth, and be glorified in God's presence (as the context clearly teaches), then the parallel use of the same word most likely means the same thing, ie: “in your presence”.
I do not see where you are coming from on this one.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,00:14) Mike, Quote In John 17:5, the word “eichon” is written in the first person singular form……… which in the imperfect tense means, “I kept on having/holding”. In Matthew 27:16, the word “eichon” is written in the third person plural form…….. which in the imperfect tense means, “THEY kept on having/holding”.
So whether you prefer “having” or “holding”, the fact is that JESUS is the one who was having/holding that glory.
The first person singular means “I' according to my testing. Thank your for the correction.
I am still am fine with I had.
kread very carefully hose scriptures ,because they say many things about Jesus ;
1Jn 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
1Jn 5:2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1Jn 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
1Jn 5:4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
1Jn 5:6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that testify:
1Jn 5:8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
1Jn 5:9 We accept man’s testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.
1Jn 5:10 Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart.1Jn 5:10 …………………………. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.what testimony did God give about his only son
do you know by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
do you understand those words from John
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2013,00:33) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,00:14) Mike, Quote In John 17:5, the word “eichon” is written in the first person singular form……… which in the imperfect tense means, “I kept on having/holding”. In Matthew 27:16, the word “eichon” is written in the third person plural form…….. which in the imperfect tense means, “THEY kept on having/holding”.
So whether you prefer “having” or “holding”, the fact is that JESUS is the one who was having/holding that glory.
The first person singular means “I' according to my testing. Thank your for the correction.
I am still am fine with I had.
kread very carefully hose scriptures ,because they say many things about Jesus ;
1Jn 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
1Jn 5:2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1Jn 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
1Jn 5:4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
1Jn 5:6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that testify:
1Jn 5:8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
1Jn 5:9 We accept man’s testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.
1Jn 5:10 Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart.1Jn 5:10 …………………………. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.what testimony did God give about his only son
do you know by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
do you understand those words from John
T,I am not sure what John means by water and blood. Perhaps he is speaking of his birth of his flesh, his death, and his resurrection.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,00:42) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2013,00:33) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,00:14) Mike, Quote In John 17:5, the word “eichon” is written in the first person singular form……… which in the imperfect tense means, “I kept on having/holding”. In Matthew 27:16, the word “eichon” is written in the third person plural form…….. which in the imperfect tense means, “THEY kept on having/holding”.
So whether you prefer “having” or “holding”, the fact is that JESUS is the one who was having/holding that glory.
The first person singular means “I' according to my testing. Thank your for the correction.
I am still am fine with I had.
kread very carefully hose scriptures ,because they say many things about Jesus ;
1Jn 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
1Jn 5:2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1Jn 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
1Jn 5:4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
1Jn 5:6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that testify:
1Jn 5:8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
1Jn 5:9 We accept man’s testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.
1Jn 5:10 Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart.1Jn 5:10 …………………………. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.what testimony did God give about his only son
do you know by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
do you understand those words from John
T,I am not sure what John means by water and blood. Perhaps he is speaking of his birth of his flesh, his death, and his resurrection.
kTHE WATER MEANS HIS “WATER BAPTISM ”
THE BLOOD ; “IS HIS LIVE THAT HE GIVE UP FOR US “
THE SPIRIT THAT TESTIFIED : THIS WAS ” THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURES THAT PROPHESIED ABOUT THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH ,THE TIME AND DATE,THE LENGTH OF HIS STAY,AND THE WAY HE SHOULD COME BACK AFTER DEAD ,INCLUDING ALL WHAT HE DID AND WAS RECORDED BY HIS DISCIPLES NOTHING HAD A LIE IN IT ;ALL BECAME TRUE OF WHAT HE SAID;HE CAME DOWN AND WENT BACK TO HEAVEN WHERE HE CAME FROM ,THIS ALSO HE SAID MANY TIMES ;BUT WHO BELIEVED HIM
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2013,00:56) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,00:42) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2013,00:33) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,00:14) Mike, Quote In John 17:5, the word “eichon” is written in the first person singular form……… which in the imperfect tense means, “I kept on having/holding”. In Matthew 27:16, the word “eichon” is written in the third person plural form…….. which in the imperfect tense means, “THEY kept on having/holding”.
So whether you prefer “having” or “holding”, the fact is that JESUS is the one who was having/holding that glory.
The first person singular means “I' according to my testing. Thank your for the correction.
I am still am fine with I had.
kread very carefully hose scriptures ,because they say many things about Jesus ;
1Jn 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
1Jn 5:2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1Jn 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
1Jn 5:4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
1Jn 5:6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that testify:
1Jn 5:8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
1Jn 5:9 We accept man’s testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.
1Jn 5:10 Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart.1Jn 5:10 …………………………. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.what testimony did God give about his only son
do you know by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
do you understand those words from John
T,I am not sure what John means by water and blood. Perhaps he is speaking of his birth of his flesh, his death, and his resurrection.
kTHE WATER MEANS HIS “WATER BAPTISM ”
THE BLOOD ; “IS HIS LIVE THAT HE GIVE UP FOR US “
THE SPIRIT THAT TESTIFIED : THIS WAS ” THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURES THAT PROPHESIED ABOUT THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH ,THE TIME AND DATE,THE LENGTH OF HIS STAY,AND THE WAY HE SHOULD COME BACK AFTER DEAD ,INCLUDING ALL WHAT HE DID AND WAS RECORDED BY HIS DISCIPLES NOTHING HAD A LIE IN IT ;ALL BECAME TRUE OF WHAT HE SAID;HE CAME DOWN AND WENT BACK TO HEAVEN WHERE HE CAME FROM ,THIS ALSO HE SAID MANY TIMES ;BUT WHO BELIEVED HIM
T,You may be correct about water being his baptism by John and the blood I seem to agree with. I disagree with what you said about the Spirit because of the words in Romans 1 that state the Spirit declared him the Son of God.
I did not believe you put much importance in water immersion even though the disciples practiced it in Acts.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
THE FATHER;THE WORD OF GOD;AND THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH.
1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;THE WATER AND THE BLOOD.
THE WATER IS IN THE BLOOD THAT WAS SHED FOR US.1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
**HE CAME** HE WAS NOT YET BABTISED WHEN HE CAME. SO THE WATER IS NOT SPEAKING OF BABTISM.
HE CAME BY WATER AND BLOOD. HE CAME AS A HUMAN.
HE CAME IN THE FLESH;REAL FLESH. NOT SOME ANGEL
APPEARING IN THE FLESH,AND THEN CRUCIFIED.wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,02:00) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2013,00:56) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,00:42) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2013,00:33) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,00:14) Mike, Quote In John 17:5, the word “eichon” is written in the first person singular form……… which in the imperfect tense means, “I kept on having/holding”. In Matthew 27:16, the word “eichon” is written in the third person plural form…….. which in the imperfect tense means, “THEY kept on having/holding”.
So whether you prefer “having” or “holding”, the fact is that JESUS is the one who was having/holding that glory.
The first person singular means “I' according to my testing. Thank your for the correction.
I am still am fine with I had.
kread very carefully hose scriptures ,because they say many things about Jesus ;
1Jn 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
1Jn 5:2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1Jn 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
1Jn 5:4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
1Jn 5:6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that testify:
1Jn 5:8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
1Jn 5:9 We accept man’s testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.
1Jn 5:10 Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart.1Jn 5:10 …………………………. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.what testimony did God give about his only son
do you know by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
do you understand those words from John
T,I am not sure what John means by water and blood. Perhaps he is speaking of his birth of his flesh, his death, and his resurrection.
kTHE WATER MEANS HIS “WATER BAPTISM ”
THE BLOOD ; “IS HIS LIVE THAT HE GIVE UP FOR US “
THE SPIRIT THAT TESTIFIED : THIS WAS ” THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURES THAT PROPHESIED ABOUT THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH ,THE TIME AND DATE,THE LENGTH OF HIS STAY,AND THE WAY HE SHOULD COME BACK AFTER DEAD ,INCLUDING ALL WHAT HE DID AND WAS RECORDED BY HIS DISCIPLES NOTHING HAD A LIE IN IT ;ALL BECAME TRUE OF WHAT HE SAID;HE CAME DOWN AND WENT BACK TO HEAVEN WHERE HE CAME FROM ,THIS ALSO HE SAID MANY TIMES ;BUT WHO BELIEVED HIM
T,You may be correct about water being his baptism by John and the blood I seem to agree with. I disagree with what you said about the Spirit because of the words in Romans 1 that state the Spirit declared him the Son of God.
I did not believe you put much importance in water immersion even though the disciples practiced it in Acts.
kYOU SHOULD READ AGAIN WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE SPIRIT ;
AND THINK ;Ro 1:3 regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David,
Ro 1:4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ro 1:5 Through him and for his name’s sakeTHIS SCRIPTURES SUPPORTS WHAT i HAVE SAID ;
Rev 19:10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
Jesus Christ our Lord. Paul specified that it is JESUS CHRIST THAT IS THE LORD ,
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2013,03:33) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,02:00) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2013,00:56) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,00:42) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2013,00:33) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,00:14) Mike, Quote In John 17:5, the word “eichon” is written in the first person singular form……… which in the imperfect tense means, “I kept on having/holding”. In Matthew 27:16, the word “eichon” is written in the third person plural form…….. which in the imperfect tense means, “THEY kept on having/holding”.
So whether you prefer “having” or “holding”, the fact is that JESUS is the one who was having/holding that glory.
The first person singular means “I' according to my testing. Thank your for the correction.
I am still am fine with I had.
kread very carefully hose scriptures ,because they say many things about Jesus ;
1Jn 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
1Jn 5:2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1Jn 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
1Jn 5:4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
1Jn 5:6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that testify:
1Jn 5:8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
1Jn 5:9 We accept man’s testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.
1Jn 5:10 Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart.1Jn 5:10 …………………………. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.what testimony did God give about his only son
do you know by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
do you understand those words from John
T,I am not sure what John means by water and blood. Perhaps he is speaking of his birth of his flesh, his death, and his resurrection.
kTHE WATER MEANS HIS “WATER BAPTISM ”
THE BLOOD ; “IS HIS LIVE THAT HE GIVE UP FOR US “
THE SPIRIT THAT TESTIFIED : THIS WAS ” THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURES THAT PROPHESIED ABOUT THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH ,THE TIME AND DATE,THE LENGTH OF HIS STAY,AND THE WAY HE SHOULD COME BACK AFTER DEAD ,INCLUDING ALL WHAT HE DID AND WAS RECORDED BY HIS DISCIPLES NOTHING HAD A LIE IN IT ;ALL BECAME TRUE OF WHAT HE SAID;HE CAME DOWN AND WENT BACK TO HEAVEN WHERE HE CAME FROM ,THIS ALSO HE SAID MANY TIMES ;BUT WHO BELIEVED HIM
T,You may be correct about water being his baptism by John and the blood I seem to agree with. I disagree with what you said about the Spirit because of the words in Romans 1 that state the Spirit declared him the Son of God.
I did not believe you put much importance in water immersion even though the disciples practiced it in Acts.
kYOU SHOULD READ AGAIN WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE SPIRIT ;
AND THINK ;Ro 1:3 regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David,
Ro 1:4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ro 1:5 Through him and for his name’s sakeTHIS SCRIPTURES SUPPORTS WHAT i HAVE SAID ;
Rev 19:10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
Jesus Christ our Lord. Paul specified that it is JESUS CHRIST THAT IS THE LORD ,
T,Are you trying to say the writing of prophets as they were carried along by the Spirit is the Spirit's testimony?
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2013,08:00) 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. THE FATHER;THE WORD OF GOD;AND THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH.
1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;THE WATER AND THE BLOOD.
THE WATER IS IN THE BLOOD THAT WAS SHED FOR US.1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
**HE CAME** HE WAS NOT YET BABTISED WHEN HE CAME. SO THE WATER IS NOT SPEAKING OF BABTISM.
HE CAME BY WATER AND BLOOD. HE CAME AS A HUMAN.
HE CAME IN THE FLESH;REAL FLESH. NOT SOME ANGEL
APPEARING IN THE FLESH,AND THEN CRUCIFIED.wakeup.
Hi WakeupGood explanation.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,05:17) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2013,03:33) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,02:00) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2013,00:56) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,00:42) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2013,00:33) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,00:14) Mike, Quote In John 17:5, the word “eichon” is written in the first person singular form……… which in the imperfect tense means, “I kept on having/holding”. In Matthew 27:16, the word “eichon” is written in the third person plural form…….. which in the imperfect tense means, “THEY kept on having/holding”.
So whether you prefer “having” or “holding”, the fact is that JESUS is the one who was having/holding that glory.
The first person singular means “I' according to my testing. Thank your for the correction.
I am still am fine with I had.
kread very carefully hose scriptures ,because they say many things about Jesus ;
1Jn 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
1Jn 5:2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1Jn 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
1Jn 5:4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
1Jn 5:6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that testify:
1Jn 5:8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
1Jn 5:9 We accept man’s testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.
1Jn 5:10 Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart.1Jn 5:10 …………………………. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.what testimony did God give about his only son
do you know by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
do you understand those words from John
T,I am not sure what John means by water and blood. Perhaps he is speaking of his birth of his flesh, his death, and his resurrection.
kTHE WATER MEANS HIS “WATER BAPTISM ”
THE BLOOD ; “IS HIS LIVE THAT HE GIVE UP FOR US “
THE SPIRIT THAT TESTIFIED : THIS WAS ” THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURES THAT PROPHESIED ABOUT THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH ,THE TIME AND DATE,THE LENGTH OF HIS STAY,AND THE WAY HE SHOULD COME BACK AFTER DEAD ,INCLUDING ALL WHAT HE DID AND WAS RECORDED BY HIS DISCIPLES NOTHING HAD A LIE IN IT ;ALL BECAME TRUE OF WHAT HE SAID;HE CAME DOWN AND WENT BACK TO HEAVEN WHERE HE CAME FROM ,THIS ALSO HE SAID MANY TIMES ;BUT WHO BELIEVED HIM
T,You may be correct about water being his baptism by John and the blood I seem to agree with. I disagree with what you said about the Spirit because of the words in Romans 1 that state the Spirit declared him the Son of God.
I did not believe you put much importance in water immersion even though the disciples practiced it in Acts.
kYOU SHOULD READ AGAIN WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE SPIRIT ;
AND THINK ;Ro 1:3 regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David,
Ro 1:4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ro 1:5 Through him and for his name’s sakeTHIS SCRIPTURES SUPPORTS WHAT i HAVE SAID ;
Rev 19:10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
Jesus Christ our Lord. Paul specified that it is JESUS CHRIST THAT IS THE LORD ,
T,Are you trying to say the writing of prophets as they were carried along by the Spirit is the Spirit's testimony?
Kyes ,that is the spirit of Christ Jesus
Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 22 2013,12:25) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2013,08:00) 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. THE FATHER;THE WORD OF GOD;AND THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH.
1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;THE WATER AND THE BLOOD.
THE WATER IS IN THE BLOOD THAT WAS SHED FOR US.1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
**HE CAME** HE WAS NOT YET BABTISED WHEN HE CAME. SO THE WATER IS NOT SPEAKING OF BABTISM.
HE CAME BY WATER AND BLOOD. HE CAME AS A HUMAN.
HE CAME IN THE FLESH;REAL FLESH. NOT SOME ANGEL
APPEARING IN THE FLESH,AND THEN CRUCIFIED.wakeup.
Hi WakeupGood explanation.
JOURNEY 42.The truth will be ignored in this world.
The light has no place in darkness.
The world loves darkness,so their deeds will not
be seen. The light only exposes their evil works.
Just take this in mind.wakeup.
Wakeup,Dec. wrote:[/quote]
Quote JOURNEY 42. The truth will be ignored in this world.
The light has no place in darkness.
The world loves darkness,so their deeds will not
be seen. The light only exposes their evil works.
Just take this in mind.wakeup.
Yes Wakeup, I understand what you are saying, for I have the same shepherd as you, and can also hear his voice.
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
We must reject the world's teachings when they try to be the “final authority” on the word of God, and put us back into darkness.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2013,08:00) 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. THE FATHER;THE WORD OF GOD;AND THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH.
1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;THE WATER AND THE BLOOD.
THE WATER IS IN THE BLOOD THAT WAS SHED FOR US.1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
**HE CAME** HE WAS NOT YET BABTISED WHEN HE CAME. SO THE WATER IS NOT SPEAKING OF BABTISM.
HE CAME BY WATER AND BLOOD. HE CAME AS A HUMAN.
HE CAME IN THE FLESH;REAL FLESH. NOT SOME ANGEL
APPEARING IN THE FLESH,AND THEN CRUCIFIED.wakeup.
Wakeup……..Notice the exact wording, there are three, that bear record in heaven, The Father , the Word, the Holy Spirit and these three “ARE” ONE , now notice what it say about the three that “BEAR WITINES”, in the earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the Blood and these three “AGREE” IN ONE .Did you catch that, one says that they “ARE” ONE while the others says they “AGREE” “IN” ONE The one those three agree in, is the flesh man Jesus Christ, as He bore “Wittiness” in the earth. But the other THREE “ARE” ONE, not in agreement but “ARE” ONE, in EXISTENCE, God and His word and Spirit “ARE” ONE, they “ARE” the same thing. Now apply that to John 1:1 and you have the error of them that say Jesus was the Word, Just thought that was important to consider here.
You are right Jesus came by WATER and BLOOD just as all humans do. It was speaking of his coming into existence in the flesh. and John emphasized it further by saying Not just Water only, but by water and Blood, He was making sure that we understood Jesus was a Human Being, who came into existence just as we do. It appears to me also, not have anything to do with Baptism. I think John was emphasizing his human flesh existence.
peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
K
Quote T, Are you trying to say the writing of prophets as they were carried along by the Spirit is the Spirit's testimony?
I say yes to your question,
Lk 24:25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
Lk 24:26 Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”Lk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
on this lays our faith in Christ and his God our father ;
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 23 2013,02:13) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2013,08:00) 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. THE FATHER;THE WORD OF GOD;AND THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH.
1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH;THE WATER AND THE BLOOD.
THE WATER IS IN THE BLOOD THAT WAS SHED FOR US.1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
**HE CAME** HE WAS NOT YET BABTISED WHEN HE CAME. SO THE WATER IS NOT SPEAKING OF BABTISM.
HE CAME BY WATER AND BLOOD. HE CAME AS A HUMAN.
HE CAME IN THE FLESH;REAL FLESH. NOT SOME ANGEL
APPEARING IN THE FLESH,AND THEN CRUCIFIED.wakeup.
Wakeup……..Notice the exact wording, there are three, that bear record in heaven, The Father , the Word, the Holy Spirit and these three “ARE” ONE , now notice what it say about the three that “BEAR WITINES”, in the earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the Blood and these three “AGREE” IN ONE .Did you catch that, one says that they “ARE” ONE while the others says they “AGREE” “IN” ONE The one those three agree in, is the flesh man Jesus Christ, as He bore “Wittiness” in the earth. But the other THREE “ARE” ONE, not in agreement but “ARE” ONE, in EXISTENCE, God and His word and Spirit “ARE” ONE, they “ARE” the same thing. Now apply that to John 1:1 and you have the error of them that say Jesus was the Word, Just thought that was important to consider here.
You are right Jesus came by WATER and BLOOD just as all humans do. It was speaking of his coming into existence in the flesh. and John emphasized it further by saying Not just Water only, but by water and Blood, He was making sure that we understood Jesus was a Human Being, who came into existence just as we do. It appears to me also, not have anything to do with Baptism. I think John was emphasizing his human flesh existence.
peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Gene B.You agree except that the man Jesus WAS the Word
of God,which you can not accept.Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and *HE* that sat upon *HIM* was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness *HE* doth judge and make war.
Revelation 19:12 *His* eyes were as a flame of fire, and on *HIS* head were many crowns; and *HE* had a name written, that no man knew, but *HE* *HIMSELF*.
Revelation 19:13 And *HE* was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and *HIS* name is called
**The Word of God**.WELL WHO IS HE?
wakeup.
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