What does Hebrews 11:3 teach us?

[Ed J]

Hebrews 11:3
Darby Bible Translation
By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by [the] word of God,
so that that which is seen should not take its origin from things which appear.

Weymouth New Testament
Through faith we understand that the worlds came into being, and still exist, at the command of God,
so that what is seen does not owe its existence to that which is visible.

Excuse me but I have not had much time in recent weeks and I am very tired in the evening.
Anyway, I haven’t changed my mind about Jesus
HE is THAT which the Bible (John) names “the Word of God”
and God does everything through Him.

Hi Berean,

Please address the last part of Hebrews 11:3, which proves Jesus cannot be “The Word”, when you get time.

____________
God bless
Ed J

[mikeboll64]

Mike:  3. John the Baptizer was testifying about the Holy Spirit of God when he pointed to the man Jesus, and said this is the person I spoke about earlier?

Ed:  3) No

According to John 1, who or what did John the Baptizer come to testify about?

[mikeboll64]

Mike: Ed, (1)is it possible that the phrase “the word of God” can sometimes refer to words that God actually spoke – (2)and other times to a living person who is God’s preeminent spokesman?

Ed:  1) That is the meaning

2) No, never

If “words that God actually spoke” is the meaning, then you’re saying that the Holy Spirit of God is a bunch of words that God has spoken.  Is that correct?

I will disregard answer #2, because I don’t think you realize that for a person to claim what CAN’T BE possible means that person is omniscient – or has learned the information from someone else who is omniscient.  Has God personally told you that the phrase “the word of God” never refers to a spokesman of God in scripture?  Because I know God doesn’t tell us that through scripture, right?  So either YOU’RE omniscient, or God personally told this to you.  Which is it?

Perhaps you meant to say that it could be possible, but you strongly disagree that this is the case.

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike,  but Jesus did tell us that…..”the words I am telling you,  are “NOT”,  “my words”  but the “words” of him who sent me. 

Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

[Ed J]

If “words that God actually spoke” is the meaning,
then you’re saying that the Holy Spirit of God is a bunch of words that God has spoken.
Is that correct?

You got this backwards Mike,

Spirit isn’t words – words are spirit.

“the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit,
and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not.” (John 6:63-64)

[Ed J]

Mike: 3. John the Baptizer was testifying about the Holy Spirit of God
when he pointed to the man Jesus, and said this is the person I spoke about earlier?

Ed: 3) No

According to John 1, who or what did John the Baptizer come to testify about?

“The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith,
Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” (John 1:29)

“Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he
which baptizeth with the HolySpirit. And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.” (John 1:33-34)

[Ed J]

Mike, but Jesus did tell us that…..”the words I am telling you,
are “NOT”, “my words” but the “words” of him who sent me.

Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

Gene,

Religion has got a bunch of people confused as to what the bible actually teaches.

[Ed J]

Hebrews 11:3
Darby Bible Translation
By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by [the] word of God,
so that that which is seen should not take its origin from things which appear.

Weymouth New Testament
Through faith we understand that the worlds came into being, and still exist, at the command of God,
so that what is seen does not owe its existence to that which is visible.

Hi Gene,

They can’t even see that Hebrews 11:3 discounts the very idea that has been taught by religion…

That Hebrews 11:3 indicates that Jesus CANNOT possibly be “the word”, because he appeared in the physical

____________
God bless
Ed J

[GeneBalthrop]

Edj…..That’s right while the words can be “in” a person, but the person him or herself can not be the word itself, a word is an expression of thought,  if we “quote” God’s words as Jesus did, then we are not quoting our thoughts but the thoughts of the person we are quoting. Jesus told us the words of the Father, therefore he was expressing the Fathers thoughts “not” his,  and if he agrees with those words then, he and the one who spoke them GOD the Father are “one” in agreement.  If I agree with you about this then we are “one” ,  just as Jesus and the Father are one.  But none of that makes us the exact same “person”.  Even so with Jesus and the Father , they are not the same being even though they are in agreement.  When we agree with  God the Fathers words we are one with him and Jesus and everyone who has the Fathers words in them. He is “ìn” us, and by virtue of God’s the Fathers words being in us, and Jesus, and all “true” Saint’s , “we are all “one”, and God the Father is in us and we are in him , GOD in  Jesus by his word,  and God in us by his word, and we in them and eachother, by the same word of God the Father, and in that way God is “in” all and “through” all, by “his” word. 

You are also right “so-called “religions”  of this world have misaligned the “the truth”, by the ignorance that is in them. 

Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene

 

[Proclaimer]

Edj…..That’s right while the words can be “in” a person, but the person him or herself can not be the word itself, a word is an expression of thought,  if we “quote” God’s words as Jesus did, then we are not quoting our thoughts but the thoughts of the person we are quoting.

You can say the same thing about light, life, and truth. Yet Jesus is the light of the world. He is the truth. He is the life. His name is the Word of God.

[GeneBalthrop]

T8…..No,  God the Father is the light of all mankind, including  the light that was in Jesus himself.   The light he gave was the “word of (from) GOD the Father. 

Psm:18:28…….For thou will light my candle: “the LORD my God will enlighten my darkness. 

John 1:1-4……In the beginning was the word (intellegent utterance ) , and the word, was with God, (just as your words are with you)  and the word, “was” God.  “2” the same (word)  was in the beginning  “with God ” (just as your word are who you are, so God’s words are who “he is”. “3”, All things were made by him (God the Father); and without him (God the Father) was nothing made that was made. “4” in him (God the Father) was life;  and the life was the “light” of men. (that includes “the man” Jesus Christ). 

T8……The reason Jesus Came “as a light” is because the light of God ( HE RECIEVED FROM GOD), was “in” him,   the same applies to all who have the Spirit of God in them , they are lights also.  JESUS WAS GIVEN THE LIGHT, and passed it on to us, but it “all” came from “ONE” God, the Father.  Who created everything that exists or existed .  

There are many scriptures that prove God “himself” and “alone” created everything that exists, no scripture anywhere say Jesus our Lord ever created anything himself. Jesus know this that is why he said, “the son of man can do “nothing” of (from)  himself”.  

Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

[Lightenup]

Hebrews 11:3

Darby Bible Translation
By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by [the] word of God,
so that that which is seen should not take its origin from things which appear.

Weymouth New Testament
Through faith we understand that the worlds came into being, and still exist, at the command of God,
so that what is seen does not owe its existence to that which is visible.

As I understand this verse, it is about realizing that things that are fashioned into appearing (like a wooden idol or golden calf) should not be considered the origin of other visible things. This does not teach that Jesus who is seen in the flesh cannot be involved in creation and the Word of God because He is “seen.” The Greek word for “appear” is “ginomai” Strong’s 1096, means this: to come into being, to happen, to become. In other words, the true creator brings thing into being, He did not come into being Himself. The true creator doesn’t “become.” The creator God always was. Now a wooden idol is something that came into existence from a wooden tree trunk. A wooden idol can’t be the origin of things as their maker.

This passage is about the Creator who always was…He is the true creator. I have no idea how people can carve an idol and then bow down to it.

https://biblehub.com/greek/1096.htm

[Ed J]

Hebrews 11:3
Darby Bible Translation
By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by [the] word of God,
so that that which is seen should not take its origin from things which appear.

Weymouth New Testament
Through faith we understand that the worlds came into being, and still exist, at the command of God,
so that what is seen does not owe its existence to that which is visible.

Hi Gene,

It is funny you those who believe Jesus (incorrectly) is “The Word”,
say that Hebrews 11:3 doesn’t mean what it clearly is actually saying.
Which is: Jesus cannot be “The Word” because he appeared in the visible.

Showing how religious indoctrination rules the day with the religiously indoctrinated.

“Wherefore if ye (religious) be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world,
why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to (religious) ordinances,
(Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;)
after the commandments and doctrines of men?” (Colossians 2:20-22)

____________
God bless
Ed J

[GeneBalthrop]

Edj……Well put, if they had the Spirit of truth in them they could easely understand those scriptures correctly, but to me it is a evident token that they simply can not, and therefore lack the Spirit of Truth and because they do not love the truth, God has sent unto them a deluding, inorder for them to believe a “LIE” , just as 2ths2 says. 

Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene

[carmel]

Hi Edj,

Through faith (THIS IS A REFERENCE TO THINGS WHICH ARE SPIRITUAL, NOT SEEN, GOD, AND HIS PERSONAL DIVINE HIDDEN  ENTITIES IN CREATION.)

we understand that the worlds came into being, and still exist, at the command of God, ( BY THE INVISIBLE WORD OF GOD, SPIRIT, THE SON OF MAN JESUS)

so that what is seen ( SPIRITUALLY,  IN CREATION, AND IN JESUS WHILE HE WAS ON EARTH)

does not owe its existence to that which is visible. (  “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN/THE SON OF GOD, IS NOT THE ORIGIN OF ABRAHAM, DAVID, ANOTHER PHYSICAL BUT THE ORIGIN OF GOD, SPIRIT! FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING IN GOD’S OWN WORK , IT IS HIS SPIRIT WHICH GIVES LIFE TO ALL OF HIS WORK)

ALSO,THE FACT THAT WE SEE THINGS PHYSICALLY IN CREATION, AS BELIEVERS WE SEE THEM ALSO SPIRITUALLY

AS IN ACTUAL FACT THEY  ORIGINATED 

SPIRITUALLY BY 

“THE WORD ” of God, Jesus, the Son of Man!

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat (PHYSICAL VISIBLE FOOD IN GENERAL) which perisheth,

but for that which endureth unto life everlasting, (SPIRITUAL FOOD INVISIBLE)

which the SON OF MAN will give you. (“THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, SPIRIT, IN THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF CREATION, BY WHOM ALL CONSIST, AND BEING HELD IN EXISTENCE) 

For him(JESUS THE SON OF MAN, SPIRIT) hath God, the Father, sealed.( ETERNAL LIFE IN THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF CREATION, ALL IN HIM, ALL BY HIM, AND ALL FOR HIM)

Edj, what you see in the physical IT’S NOT JUST PHYSICAL, IT DIDN’T ORIGINATE FROM THE PHYSICAL, BUT IT ORIGINATED AND  ALSO “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man

SPIRIT HIDDEN IN THE PHYSICAL!

Slain like a lamb from the beginning of the worldRev.13:8

JESUS APPEARED IN THE PHYSICAL BUT HE WAS NOT JUST A PHYSICAL BEING, BUT ALSO

SPIRITUAL!

THE FACT THAT JESUS HAD THE POWER TO SPIRITUALIZE HIS FLESH BODY BEFORE HE SUFFERED AND DIED IN HIS FLESH.

Luke 13:32 And he said to them: Go and tell that fox: Behold, I cast out devils and do cures, to-day and to-morrow, and the third day I am consummated. 

YOU ARE NOT JUST A FLESH AND BLOOD BEING, BUT ALSO SOUL and SPIRIT, AND YOUR ORIGIN IS

“THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, IN ADAM. BY WHOSE SIN YOU BECAME THE PROPERTY OF SATAN, AND THANKS TO

“THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN,

HE PURCHASED YOU AND GAVE YOU HIS BODY ON HIS RESURRECTION, AND YOU ARE  NOW

JESUS’PROPERTY WHO AS A SPIRIT OWNED

THE HUMAN HEART AT ALL COSTS.

Now back to John6:27,

ACCORDING TO JESUS  WHEN WE BELIEVE IN HIM, AND WE EAT FOOD IN GENERAL, WE ARE NOT JUST EAT FOOD WHICH PERISHES, BUT WE ALSO RECEIVE HIS SPIRIT WHICH ENDURES ONTO ETERNAL LIFE.

WHEN ADAM SINNED, HE CURSED THE WORLD WITH HIS WORK IN GENERAL, AND WHEN HE PRODUCED FOOD AND ATE IT, HE SIMPLY ATE SATAN’S SPIRIT WHO ENTERED AND OCCUPIED ADAM’S SOUL AND THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF THE WORLD,  ON ADAM’S SIN.

JESUS IS NOT JUST THE SON OF MAN BUT ALSO

“THE WORD” OF GOD 

SPIRIT

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

[Ed J]

Carmel,

You keeps saying over and over Jesus (falsely) is “The Word”.
What evidence do you have other than ‘brain-bondo’?

I have given you two pieces of evidence so far (Hebrews 11:3, Jeremiah 18:1,5),
with lengthy explanations as to why. But all you have given is your reassurances.

Well, we need evidence; do you have any?

____________
God bless
Ed J

[GeneBalthrop]

CARMEL…..You continue to “rob” God and pay  Jesus,  this is something Jesus never did.  HE gave  all the Glory to  God the Father, while you dishonor him, by saying that Jesus is the word of God “himself” ,  a apsolute “LIE”.  JESUS did quote and give us all the words the Father who is the “only” true God, who was in him,  gave him to tell us, that for sure, but non of that ever made Jesus himself the source of those words, no more then it made the prophets,  the word  “themselves”  that God gave them to tell us. 

If you could only believe what Jesus himself said, “the words I am telling you are “not” MY WORDS, but the words of him that sent me.”

You people tell us you believe in Jesus, but deny his very own words. So the truth is, you really do not “truly” believe him, or you would believe what he said, RIGHT?

Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

 

[carmel]

Hi Edj,

YOU: Carmel,

You keep saying over and over Jesus (falsely ME: ACCORDING TO YOUR UNDERSTANDINGS) is “The Word”.
What evidence do you have other than ‘brain-bondo’?

ME: HOW ON EARTH CAN I FURNISH YOU AN EVIDENCE IF  IN THE SAME TIME 

IT IS SPIRITUAL:

Luke 17:20 And being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God should come, he answering them and said:

The kingdom of God cometh not with observation.

21Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

ME: God’s kingdom came on earth 2000 years ago, WHEN
JESUS “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, THE SON OF MAN 

DIED ON THE CROSS

 

Luke 17:22 And he said to his disciples: The days will come when you shall desire to see one day of the Son of man.

And you shall not see it.

23And they will say to you: See here, and see there. Go ye not after, nor follow them. 24For as the lightning that lighteneth from under heaven shineth unto the parts that are under heaven,

so shall the Son of man be in his day.

ME: Edj, I am not out of context with what I wrote,

but simply to make it clear to you that

IF YOU CANNOT SEE WHAT I CAN SEE,

WHICH IS ALL SPIRITUAL, IN THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE,

YOU WILL NEVER SEE THE TRUTH REGARDING

 “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, JESUS, THE SON OF MAN.

FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT IN HEBREWS 11:3, IT CLEARLY SAYS:

Through faith we understand that the worlds came into being, and still exist, at the command of God,

so that what is seen does not owe its existence to that which is visible.

YOU: I have given you two pieces of evidence so far (Hebrews 11:3, Jeremiah 18:1,5),

with lengthy explanations as to why. But all you have given is your reassurance.

Well, we need evidence; do you have any?

ME: THUS:

READ MY POST AGAIN AND THE EVIDENCE IS THERE AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL,

SPIRITUALLY!

YOU NEED HELP NOT FROM ME IN THIS CASE BUT FROM

THE HOLY SPIRIT (THE VOICE OF GOD)

WHO WAS SENT BY

“THE WORD” MADE FLESH, JESUS, THE SON OF MAN IN THE GLORY OF

 

OUR LORD GOD AND FATHER JESUS CHRIST

Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.

READ:

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say to you:

but you cannot bear them now. 

13But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,

he will teach you all truth.

For he shall not speak of HIMSELF: (SPIRITUAL) but what things soever he shall hear,( REGARDING “THE WORD” MADE FLESH THE SON OF MAN) he shall speak. And the things that are to come, he shall shew you.

14HE SHALL GLORIFY ME:

because HE  shall receive of MINE ( REGARDING “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, THE SON OF MAN) and shall shew it to you.

15All things whatsoever the Father hath ( ATTRIBUTED TO THE FLESH) are mine.(“THE WORD” MADE FLESH, JESUS, THE SON OF MAN)

Therefore I said that

HE( THE HOLY GHOST, SPIRIT)  shall receive OF ME (“THE WORD” MADE FLESH) and shew it to you.

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

[Ed J]

Hi Carmel,

1. The Word was made flesh when Jesus was baptized with God’s HolySpirit:
That is because God’s HolySpirit is The Word not Jesus.

“our hands have handled, of the Word of life” (1 John 1:1)

John and other Apostles wrote part of the bible;
this is not talking about fondling Jesus flesh.
What an abomination for you to think such a thing.

2. God’s Kingdom came (w/o observation) on the day of Pentecost
“being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things
pertaining to the kingdom of God (Pentecost)” (Acts 1:3)

3. I have been baptized with God’s HolySpirit so I see God’s Kingdom.
Of course Jesus has a divine connection to the father, He is his Son!

4. You have no evidence, because what you believe is NOT the truth.
I have shown you the truth but you believe it not. Even though
“The Word” of God speaks out clearly against what you believe.

I pray that God would open your eyes to see his truth!

____________
God bless
Ed J

[Author]

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