Was Jesus Christ born in Bethlehem or born at the Jordan?

This topic contains 893 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  t8 5 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #809295
     kerwin 
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    Ed,

    Hi Nick and Kerwin,

    If Jesus wasn’t conceived *AS* the spirit of Christ in Mary’s womb,
    what then kept him form sinning the first 30 years of his life?

    Mmmm?

    Jesus is not the Spirit of Christ though when a person speaks of him in the Spiritual sense the Spirit is refereed to as him, but so are believer and so is God.

    Nick has never explained why Jesus did not sin before he was immersed in the Jordon. That is part of my disagreement with hum. I believe he was appointed as the first to receive the Spirit of God and that he received it before he could be tempted by the flesh. He then lived by faith from first to last throughout his mortality as an example to the world so that they to would change their ways and do the same.

    Having the Spirit to walk by does not make one Christ or every believer would be Christ. Scripture does teach us that Jesus was given the gifts to preach and to do good works. The later describes the miracle he performed during his mortality. After his death others were appointed to be the light of the world as he came into his kingdom. He was not truly king until he did. The title Christ means anointed to be king. Scripture is not clear when that even happened but it is clear about when he became king.

    #809296
     kerwin 
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    t8,

    Are you dodging my explanations?

    Do you prefer Scripture to be simple so you do not have to meditate on it?

    Many seem not to want to think but prefer to be told what to think by others but I thought you were beyond that.

    Do you wonder why Jesus often chose to speak in obscure figures of speech?

    John 16:29New English Translation (NET Bible)

    29 His disciples said, “Look, now you are speaking plainly and not in obscure figures of speech!

    I do even though he tells us.

    #809299
     NickHassan 
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    Hi KW,

    He walked in the light of the Law.

    #809300
     NickHassan 
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    Hi ED,

    Micah is a potted compound history of the Word made flesh

    Jesus Christ.

    Vessel and contents.

    #809301
     GeneBalthrop 
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    T8….You are not seening JESUS as a “prophsied” human being, you are seening him as a preexisting being, morphed into a human body. When he as, a “prophesied” person, finly came into his “existence” as that “prophesied” person, all those prophesies about him were to take place over time. He was born to die for our sins, does that mean he was born dead?, no, neither does it that he was the christ untill it actually happened, even though it was his flesh destiny. He was born to take away the sin of the world, but when did it occur, before or after his death on the tree or cross. Jesus could not have been all those things at berth, even though it was his “prophesied” future andtheydid take place.

    Another point you are not seening, is that denying JESUS’ comming into existence as a flesh human being, is antichrist, because it has to be a human being that is “anointed”, in order to be a CHRISTO’S OR MESSIAH, human. You can’t be a born christo’s, you have got to be a already existing flesh being, inorder to recieve the ANOINTING SPIRIT ON YOU, you are not born with it, you, after a flesh berth, receive it.

    The same thing applies to us, we after our “flesh” berth can recieve it also, just like JESUS DID AT THE JORDAN RIVER. NO HUMAN WAS EVER BORN WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT at berth in scripture, as far as i know, and that includes Jesus. So if a person says JESUS WAS “BORN” A CHRIST THEN HE IS DENYING THAT THE “christo’s” came in the “FLESH”, CONSEQUENTLY HE OR SHE IS, ANTICHRISTO’S , MEANING YOU DON’T BELIEVE THE CHRISTO’S, ACTUALLY CAME TO BE, IN THE FLESH MAN JESUS. YOU ARE SAYING THE SAME THING T8, you simply do not yet see it brother. T8, you are making JESUS out to be, what he actually “ASPIRED” TO, AS IF HE “ALREADY” WAS. Your view about Jesus gives no hope to his fellow brothers and sisters, because you drive a wedge between him and us and the rest of mankind. You are teaching the “DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION” and don’t even realize it. IMO

    THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT SUBJECT TO PROPERLY UNDERSTAND, because it can cause many scriptures to fall in place.

    peace and love to you and yours…….gene

    #809306
     t8 
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    Are you dodging my explanations?

    Do you prefer Scripture to be simple so you do not have to meditate on it?

    Many seem not to want to think but prefer to be told what to think by others but I thought you were beyond that.

    Do you wonder why Jesus often chose to speak in obscure figures of speech?

    No I am not. Kerwin there is simplicity in Christ. There is hot and cold. There is truth and error. Light and darkness. Good and evil. God and Satan.

    When an angel declares that Jesus Christ the Lord was born on that day in Bethlehem, then no amount of reasoning away from that simple and clear text is going to sway a person away if they love the truth. You can dress up error in fancy clothes, but it is still error. Like the saying goes, putting lipstick on a pig doesn’t change the fact that it is a pig.

    And yes I understand your position. It is that he was only prophetically that but technically not which is just a fancy way to say that he was not the Christ when he was born right. But I have to side with that angel of God on this one. And it was you guys opposing me when I declared that Jesus was born the Christ and the Lord. When I was only repeating the truth in scripture. How you view it is quite irrelevant in the sense that the elephant in the room is that your testimony of Jesus birth is quite different to the one we read of in scripture. Unless you were an eye-witness of the event, then you like me have the gospels to draw upon. If your testimony is different to that, then were is your hidden knowledge coming from? Are you capable of just believing the words of that angel or are you too clever even for an angel?

    #809307
     t8 
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    t8,

    You are implying Jesus’ sacrifice was in vain.

    This a basic tenet of Christianity that Jesus laid down his life for to save believers.

    Your words are saying that you do not believe that.

    Excuse me. Where does this accusation come from? I believe the angels message about Jesus Christ the Lord being born in Bethlehem on that day, and now through the mighty powers of your reasoning, I am supposedly implying that Jesus sacrifice was in vain?

    Wow! What next? Maybe I deny that Obama exists because I ate an apple.

    #809308
     t8 
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    Hi t8,

    Your trust in your own understanding is impressive

    but sadly deceived.

    Trust not in your own understanding.

    Okay, I guess you are right, Jesus Christ the Lord was not born on that day in Bethlehem. What was born was just Jesus the man, the Christ came at the Jordan. Yes that angel was not technically correct and he probably got a demotion when he returned to Heaven.

    Happy now? lol.

    Yes of course I am joking. But just want to highlight how silly you guys are acting. Do you really want to draw people away from the declared truth and message in scripture for your own understanding. And then have to give an account for that. I bet you really do not want that deep down in there somewhere.

    #809309
     t8 
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    T8….You are not seening JESUS as a “prophsied” human being, you are seening him as a preexisting being, morphed into a human body.

    Although he existed in the form of God, he emptied himself and took on flesh. Being found as a man he was humble, obeyed God, died for humanity, rose from the dead, and was taken up to be with God in the glory that he had with him before the cosmos. Amen!

    This is good news.

    #809310
     t8 
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    The same thing applies to us, we after our “flesh” berth can recieve it also, just like JESUS DID AT THE JORDAN RIVER. NO HUMAN WAS EVER BORN WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT at berth in scripture, as far as i know, and that includes Jesus. So if a person says JESUS WAS “BORN” A CHRIST THEN HE IS DENYING THAT THE “christo’s” came in the “FLESH”, CONSEQUENTLY HE OR SHE IS, ANTICHRISTO’S , MEANING YOU DON’T BELIEVE THE CHRISTO’S, ACTUALLY CAME TO BE, IN THE FLESH MAN JESUS. YOU ARE SAYING THE SAME THING T8,

    Luke 1:35
    And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

    The holy God was his Father. His Spirit took part in his conception. Jesus was holy from conception. He is not like you in that respect Gene. This is how the true Jesus was conceived. The one you talk about is a different one. Closer to the Muslim Jesus perhaps.

    Luke 2:10-11
    But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people; for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

    Gene 2:10-11
    So if a person says JESUS WAS “BORN” A CHRIST THEN HE IS DENYING THAT THE “christo’s” came in the “FLESH”, CONSEQUENTLY HE OR SHE IS, ANTICHRISTO’S

    So that angel is Antichrist because he certainly declared that Jesus was born the Christ and the Lord.

    1 John 4:2-3
    By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

    See that. Jesus Christ came in the flesh. You believe that what came in the flesh was a man called Jesus. You missed out the Christ part. It was Jesus Christ who came in the flesh. That is a huge fail for you Gene that has some huge consequences.

    THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT SUBJECT TO PROPERLY UNDERSTAND, because it can cause many scriptures to fall in place.

    Agreed. If we do not believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, then we are Antichrist. Likewise if you do not believe Jesus is the Christ, includes that baby that was born in Bethlehem (Jesus), then that is further proof of the Antichrist spirit. Finally, we are told about  how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph it says. It doesn’t mention the Jordan regarding how Jesus Christ came to be. Likewise the angel declared: “today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord”.

    Scripture is used for reproof and correction Gene. But you can brush it off and go your own way. That is your decision. I wouldn’t advise it. You cannot change the past, only the future. This is the opportunity that is presented to you.

     

    #809314
     GeneBalthrop 
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    T8….You seem to be unable to see that JESUS HAD TO BE “EXACTLY” as we are to even qualify to be God’s sacrifice for mankinds sins. You have moved Jesus away from human idenity, but scripture say “by man” sin entered this world and by “man”, (Jesus “the” christ), it was atoned for. Jesus is said to be a second Adam right? So why was he be compaired to Adam, if he were not the same as he was?

    THE law only has one perversion for redemption that i know of, it can only be done by a KINDSMEN REDEEMER, AND IT must be offered before a Judge, and JESUS was that “kindsmen” redemmer, and he offered it BEFORE the JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH THE ALMIGHTY GOD. A MAN FOR MANKIND, WHICH GOD ACCEPTED FOR THE SIN OF WHOLE THE WORLD. Your way of understand JESUS as born a CHRISTO’S, and GIVING HIM all kinds of prexistence status, complete destories his humanity, and not only his human work but the work of Go the Father in humanity, it is much like the Gnostic’s who said Jesus was a GOD and was only “disguised” as to real human being, another words, he was pulling the wool over our eyes so to speak.

    T8..YOU FAIL TO SEE it was all about humanity from start to finish, JESUS IS “EXACTLY” WHAT GOD THE FATHER HAS IN MIND FOR EACH ONE OF US, and the “man” Jesus is the first and only one so far to have achieved that human goal. You view of seening Jesus as different actually breaks faith in God and his great work in humanity as shown by what he did in THE MAN JESUS, ” by his anointing spirit in human flesh, “that God may be IN “ALL” and THROUGH ALL”.

    T8, HAVEN’T YOU EVER WONDERED HOW GOD THE FATHER CAME TO BE “IN” THE MAN JESUS, was it not by putting himself “IN” HIM, through the “ANOINTING SPIRIT” OR CHRISTO’S, or haven’t you ever read where JOHN said “FOR HIS “SEED” abides in us.” that “SEED” is the “anointing spirit” given us by GOD the FATHER by which he has begotten us also, just like it did Jesus. We are not so much as an ounce different then our brother Jesus who is call the christ, we are heirs and joint heirs with him, and “all” things will be under our feet exactly as it is for Our brother Jesus.

    We preach an exact human idenity with Jesus, you preach a JESUS who actually is not nothing like we are, so you drive a wedge between him and us, between God the Fathers work in him and us, even if you don’t realize it.

    T8, that is exactly what Satan wants, A JESUS WHO IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN WE ARE, so we can’t honestly believe we can atain to the “measure and “full” stature of CHRIST JESUS.

    peace and love to you and yours……..gene

    #809315
     t8 
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    Gene, it is really simple. I believe the Jesus of the Bible. Not the Muslim Jesus or your version. The one in the Bible was born the messiah and the lord. He was declared King of the Jews and the savior. Wise men came to honor the messiah.

    He existed in the form of God, emptied himself, and came in the flesh. Being found as a man, he was humble and always obeyed God. He then died for our sins, but God raised him from the dead. He was taken up into the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

    That is the Jesus I believe in. He was declared the messiah and the son of God at Bethlehem. He was born holy because his Father was God and God is holy.

    Amen!

    You are free to believe in any Jesus you want. You have a will that allows you that choice. But I suggest that we should believe in the one spoken of in scripture.

    #809316
     kerwin 
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    t8,

    No I am not. Kerwin there is simplicity in Christ. There is hot and cold. There is truth and error. Light and darkness. Good and evil. God and Satan.

    A lot of words not much meaning as I am not sure how they even addressed what I wrote. Are you saying that Apostles were wrong and Jesus and he did not speak in obscure figures of speech?

    My point is that obscure figures of speech are common in Scripture which is why Peter stated that like Scripture in general some of Paul’s writings are hard to understand.

    The reason is this is that the truth is hidden from those whose mindset is natural and revealed to those whose mindset is Spiritual.

    The angel spoke the way he does because he had foresight of what Jesus would do, even though Jesus had not done it yet. You know this because you also know that Jesus became the savior of the whole world by sacrificing himself that they may be saved. Are you watching yourself to make sure your life is in tune with the truth?

    #809319
     t8 
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    If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.

    #809320
     t8 
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    A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear.

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