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Kathi I was rather surprised that you honor the Father and the Son the same way. I do not. The Son does deserve honor, but not the same then the Father. You do know what it says in Ephesians 4:6 The Father is,above all. So all worship goes to the Father. The Father is the Almighty God while Jesus is the Mighty God. I do know that You do not believe in a trinity doctrine. What Nick said is interesting. I never knew about that. And I wish He would go into more details about it, were He learned of it.
Love IreneQuote (Cindy @ June 24 2009,17:26) Kathi I was rather surprised that you honor the Father and the Son the same way. I do not. The Son does deserve honor, but not the same then the Father. You do know what it says in Ephesians 4:6 The Father is,above all. So all worship goes to the Father. The Father is the Almighty God while Jesus is the Mighty God. I do know that You do not believe in a trinity doctrine. What Nick said is interesting. I never knew about that. And I wish He would go into more details about it, were He learned of it.
Love Irene
Irene,
I do make a distinction. I do not credit the Son as the source. I do not honor Him as the source.Irene, let me ask you somethings:
Can you trust Jesus as much as you trust His Father?
Could Jesus ever betray your trust?
Can you follow Jesus as much as you follow His Father?
Would Jesus ever lead you away from the Father's will?
Can you serve Jesus?
Would that service offend the Father?
Can you worship Jesus as the Son of GOD?
Would that worship offend the Father?Please answer those questions for me Irene.
Thanks!
KathiHi Nick,
I believe that the Father feels worshipped when we worship His Son. His Son always leads us to the Father and the Father always leads us to His Son.LU
WOW there is a lot of stuff in here! I’m a fundamentalist so let’s look at something fundamental.
GEN 1:1, 2 “In the beginning God… And the Sprit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Hmmmm God + the Spirit of God + Jesus Christ = Let me take a wild guess here! “3”.Quote (Lightenup @ June 25 2009,16:02) Hi Nick,
I believe that the Father feels worshipped when we worship His Son. His Son always leads us to the Father and the Father always leads us to His Son.LU
Hi LU,
It is a fine theory.
Can you offer any scriptural support for it?Hi TJ,
That is the sort of logic that led men into the pathetic heresy of trinity.God has His own Spirit and Jesus is the Son of God blessed with that Spirit
Kathi! Do I trust Jesus? That is not the Question here. Do I trust Him that He died for me, yes. And of course He would not disappoint me. He is Gods Son. I don't have to follow the Father, as I follow Christ, that is not a question to ask. I told you that I honor Jesus, He is our Mediator to go to the Throne of God and confess our sin. He is the perfect Sacrifice. John tells us if we believe that we don't sin the truth is not in us. I honor Him because He is God's Son and Our King and Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We should always worship our Heavenly Father, the way He should be worshiped. I pray to Him through Jesus.
Love IreneQuote (TechJoe @ June 25 2009,00:33) WOW there is a lot of stuff in here! I’m a fundamentalist so let’s look at something fundamental.
GEN 1:1, 2 “In the beginning God… And the Sprit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Hmmmm God + the Spirit of God + Jesus Christ = Let me take a wild guess here! “3”.
Hi Joe,
You are right that makes three but two of the three are “of” GOD.
Do you have a “spirit” within you that was there before you met GOD? It is not hard to understand that GOD also has a spirit within Him. Do you have a son? It is not hard to understand that GOD has a son that is also from Him.So, there we have it…all three:
GOD, the Father
the Spirit “OF” GOD
the Son “OF” GODDo you see that it is the Father that is the source of the other two? The spirit is from the Father, the son is also from the father.
I'll bet that the track that helped lead you to the Lord did not even mention a “triune God,” a trinity, three persons in one, co-eternal, co-equal, or the idea of eternal generation. I never saw an evangelism track that spelled out those terms. Do you wonder why? They are not in the scriptures…that is why. The trinity doctrine is only a theory with missing links, Joe. I used to believe in the trinity doctrine because I was taught it after I became a Christian. God woke me up since then.
This message board will challenge you to rethink that. Most everyone here believes that there is a Father, a Son, and a Holy Spirit. That hasn't been an issue. Are they equal, are they three seperate “persons” yet one? That is more of the issue.
Keep it simple Joe,
KathiNick,
Why would the Father tell the angels to worship the Son yet forbid us from worshipping the Son? No where did He forbid us to worship the Son as part of worshipping Him.See Hebrews 1.
LU
The Spirit of God is part of God and the Son of God is part of God.
John 14:9 …he that hath seen me hath seen the father:How’s this for simple; Jesus awakened the Spirit so that I can communicate with the Father. If there is no Jesus than the Spirit cannot be awakened and I cannot communicate with the Father and I cannot be redeemed. If there is no Spirit than there is nothing for Jesus to awaken and I cannot communicate with the Father and I cannot be redeemed. And if there is no Father than there is nothing to communicate with and I cannot be redeemed. Salvation requires all three. Therefore; it is a Trinity. If I am wrong than we might as well all join bodhitharta.
Hi TJ,
Jesus was given a share of the Spirit of God and so can we be given such a gift.
Thus we will have unity -one in God.But it does not make Jesus God any more than it makes us God.
Have a look at Acts 10.38
Was God anointed by God with God?Quote (TechJoe @ June 25 2009,16:16) How’s this for simple; Jesus awakened the Spirit so that I can communicate with the Father. If there is no Jesus than the Spirit cannot be awakened and I cannot communicate with the Father and I cannot be redeemed. If there is no Spirit than there is nothing for Jesus to awaken and I cannot communicate with the Father and I cannot be redeemed. And if there is no Father than there is nothing to communicate with and I cannot be redeemed. Salvation requires all three. Therefore; it is a Trinity. If I am wrong than we might as well all join bodhitharta.
Hi TechJoeWelcome.
Very good points. But you will find most here trying to go to the Father apart from Jesus and Jesus said that if a man climbs up another way he is a thief and a robber!
If you have Jesus you have God. For if you have Jesus you have the Father and the Spirit!
Blessings WJ
Quote (TechJoe @ June 26 2009,07:22) The Spirit of God is part of God and the Son of God is part of God.
John 14:9 …he that hath seen me hath seen the father:
Hi TJ,
Are sons part of their own fathers?God was IN CHRIST reconciling the world to Himself[not as Christ-2Cor5.19]
So seeing Christ was also seeing God visiting His people in this human vessel.
Quote (TechJoe @ June 26 2009,08:16) How’s this for simple; Jesus awakened the Spirit so that I can communicate with the Father. If there is no Jesus than the Spirit cannot be awakened and I cannot communicate with the Father and I cannot be redeemed. If there is no Spirit than there is nothing for Jesus to awaken and I cannot communicate with the Father and I cannot be redeemed. And if there is no Father than there is nothing to communicate with and I cannot be redeemed. Salvation requires all three. Therefore; it is a Trinity. If I am wrong than we might as well all join bodhitharta.
Greetings TJ and welcome. We look forward to hearing more from you.thinker
Thanks WJ
Thanks thinker
Hi Nick
Hmmph “–one in God”, that kinda makes my point doesn’t it???
Oh by the way thanks for drawing my attention back to Acts, great book.
Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
I would say that’s Gods version of power of attorney! Or you might say its Gods way of tell us to treat Jesus Christ as “God”.My book says that “by one man sin entered into the world.” I let you guess who that was!
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
And there is only who will provide “remission of sins”.
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.I’ll stand on the King James Bible.
I believe that after we are Saved that we should be Baptized by emersion.
And that we should then join a Bible believing salvation teaching church.
And that we should learn teach and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
And that we should participate if planting and growing churches.
That is what I believe fundamental Christianity is all about!
If others want be divided and conquered and read 67 different versions, so be it. Perhaps they should find something to believe in and make a stand.Psalm 55:4-14, 19-22
My heart is sore pained within me: and the terrors of death are fallen upon me.
Fearfulness and trembling are come upon me, and horror hath overwhelmed me.
And I said, Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest.
Lo, then would I wander far off, and remain in the wilderness. Selah.
I would hasten my escape from the windy storm and tempest.
Destroy, O Lord, and divide their tongues: for I have seen violence and strife in the city.
Day and night they go about it upon the walls thereof: mischief also and sorrow are in the midst of it.
Wickedness is in the midst thereof: deceit and guile depart not from her streets.
For it was not an enemy that reproached me; then I could have borne it: neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; then I would have hid myself from him:
But it was thou, a man mine equal, my guide, and mine acquaintance.
We took sweet counsel together, and walked unto the house of God in company.
19. God shall hear, and afflict them, even he that abideth of old. Selah. Because they have no changes, therefore they fear not God.
He hath put forth his hands against such as be at peace with him: he hath broken his covenant.
The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.
Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee: he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.Hi TJ,
But the gospel of Jesus Christ says nothing about any trinity.
Neither does any book of the bible written by God through men but you promote it?So looking at Acts 10.38
Was God anointed by God with God and was God with God?
Arghhh; there I go not proof reading again. “And that we should participate if planting and growing churches”. The word “if” should be the word “In”
It should read: And that we should participate in planting and growing churches.
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