Trinity – Is 1:18’s Proof Text #4

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
This confusion is obvious in any church of trinity faith.

Nobody prays to a trinity.

But though they say they have one God the prayers are all towards various members of their so called trinity

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2009,18:15)

Hi WJ, So the confusion would increase for you when it comes to prayer and worship. You do not know how to pray and worship of who to worship. Jesus answered both these questions in Jn 4 and Mt6. Why not believe the Son of God? He is truth

Hi NH

Is your fellowship with the Father and Son and the Holy Spirit?

If so then how?

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
I mean is it not the oddest thing that even groups who call themselves the church of the trinity or some similar name seem to forget it as soon as they walk in the door and never pray to that trinity god but instead pray to various so called members of the their god?

What gives?

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
When they do pray they pray mainly to the Father and sometimes to Jesus but never to God's Spirit.

Some consistency in the three equal person idea would add the impression of validity

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,11:04)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2009,18:15) Hi WJ, So the confusion would increase for you when it comes to prayer and worship. You do not know how to pray and worship of who to worship. Jesus answered both these questions in Jn 4 and Mt6. Why not believe the Son of God? He is truth Hi NH Is your fellowship with the Father and Son and the Holy Spirit? If so then how? WJ

Hi WJ,
WE fellowship with the Father and His Son in God's Spirit.
But to do so you have to abide in scripture. [2jn]

Scripture never teaches any trinity.

Get free from this abhorrent lie

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 10 2009,17:50)

Hi 94 Quote (942767 @ June 09 2009,23:11) Jehovah will come for the church through the Lord Jesus.  No, Jesus is not YHWH.  The body of Christ is the Holy Temple of God.  Note also that the literal translation does not say saints but Holy Ones. But the Prophet Zechariah says explicitly the one whose feet touches the earth is “YHWH”! Where is the scripture that says, “God the Father” will leave heaven and come for the church”? Blessings WJ

Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,17:31)

Hi WJ: Beginning with the head of the church, the Lord Jesus, and we who are his disciples are the Holy Temple of God.  Does YHWH literally have feet?

No that is the Point, The Father doesn’t have literal feet.

”AND HIS FEET SHALL STAND IN THAT DAY UPON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES”, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Compare with…

Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? “THIS SAME JESUS, WHICH IS TAKEN UP FROM YOU INTO HEAVEN, SHALL SO COME IN LIKE MANNER AS YE HAVE SEEN HIM GO INTO HEAVEN”. Then returned they unto Jerusalem “FROM THE MOUNT CALLED OLIVET, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Jesus feet was standing on the Mount of Olives, and Jesus feet will stand there again according to Zech 14:4

Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,17:31)

The Father does not have to leave his throne to come for the church, He can be every where by His Spirit.

The Father is not coming for the church according to scriptures Jesus is. You didn’t give me a scripture to show the Father coming.

You should believe Paul’s words when he says…

while we wait for the blessed hope-the glorious *APPEARING* (epiphaneia) of our great “God and Savior”, Jesus Christ, “WHO GAVE HIMSELF FOR US TO REDEEM US” from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. Titus 2:13, 14

Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,17:31)

Jesus said the following: Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Is there any reason you left out the previous verse?

 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and “THEY SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY”. Matt 24:30

Are you inferring that the Father will send “his” Angels in verse 31. I know you would like for the scriptures to say that but they do not.

Who is coming with the Son of man in all that Power and great Glory?

The Son of man shall “SEND FORTH HIS ANGELS, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; Matt 14:31

And then shall they see “the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory”. AND THEN SHALL HE SEND HIS ANGELS, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Mk 13:26, 27

Who else besides “Jesus Angels” is coming with him…

To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at “THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WITH ALL HIS SAINTS”. 1 Thess 3:13

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, “BEHOLD, THE LORD COMETH WITH TEN THOUSANDS OF HIS SAINTS, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Jude 1:14, 15

Who is it that the Father has committed all judgment into his hands?

Now compare with this….

And ye shall flee [to] the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and “THE LORD [YHWH] MY GOD SHALL COME, AND ALL THE SAINTS WITH THEE. Zech 14:5

Who is the “Lord my God” here? Are you looking for the Father Marty? The Father is not coming from heaven for he is already here as you say. Scriptures say Jesus is returning. These scriptures cannot be understood by proxy! As Isa 1:18 has pointed out, there is no example in scripture where the Divine name YHWH was given to any other, for that would be blasphemous for the Prophet.

Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,17:31)

And all of the verses that Isaiah states are referring to Jesus and saying that he is YHWH, namely Zech. 14:1,3,5,7,9,12,13,16,17,18,20.&21, are not referring to Jesus but to God Himself.

Is that a fact? So Zech 14 is not prophetic of Jesus and his return? So in your opinion it is the Father [YHWH} who is coming to the earth and setting up a throne and a Kingdom? Please give us some NT evidence of this.

Who is this…

And ye shall flee [to] the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and “THE LORD [YHWH] MY GOD SHALL COME, AND ALL THE SAINTS WITH THEE. Zech 14:5

Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,17:31)

There is “Only One God”, YHWH, the Father. Love in Christ, Marty

Yes there is “Only One God”, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. You should listen to your Pastor.

Blessings and Love Keith

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
WE do listen to our Rabbi and he never spoke of any trinity or called himself God.
You do but you would if you follow men.

[Not3in1]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,12:20)

Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,17:31) There is “Only One God”, YHWH, the Father. Love in Christ, Marty Yes there is “Only One God”, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. You should listen to your Pastor. Blessings and Love Keith

Instead of listening to our Pastor's, why not listen to Paul?

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live

Love,
Mandy

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 10 2009,20:32)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,12:20) Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,17:31) There is “Only One God”, YHWH, the Father. Love in Christ, Marty Yes there is “Only One God”, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. You should listen to your Pastor. Blessings and Love Keith Instead of listening to our Pastor's, why not listen to Paul? 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live Love, Mandy

Hi Mandy

I have listened to Paul…

while we wait for the blessed hope-the glorious *APPEARING* (epiphaneia) of our “GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR”, Jesus Christ, “WHO GAVE HIMSELF FOR US TO REDEEM US” from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. Titus 2:13, 14

Blessings WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
You are so easily muddled.

Unless you are reborn from above you cannot see the kingdom.
Why not find teaching from Jesus that says he is God and there is a trinity

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
It seems you remain bound by tradition and unwilling to risk walking away from your learned friends to follow Jesus outside the city.
I hope this approach softens before you meet the Lord Jesus.

[942767]

Hi WJ:

I do listen to my pastor, the Lord Jesus, and he has said:

Quote

Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent

He did not say: “One God”, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This is a doctrine based on someone's interpretation of the scriptures. There is no scripture stating this.

I will get back to you regarding the rest of your post to me.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
You offer us a strange god that you divide by prayer.
But God is one?

[942767]

Hi WJ:

Regarding the following:

Quote

Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,17:31) Hi WJ: Beginning with the head of the church, the Lord Jesus, and we who are his disciples are the Holy Temple of God.  Does YHWH literally have feet? No that is the Point, The Father doesn’t have literal feet. ”AND HIS FEET SHALL STAND IN THAT DAY UPON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES”, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. Compare with… Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? “THIS SAME JESUS, WHICH IS TAKEN UP FROM YOU INTO HEAVEN, SHALL SO COME IN LIKE MANNER AS YE HAVE SEEN HIM GO INTO HEAVEN”. Then returned they unto Jerusalem “FROM THE MOUNT CALLED OLIVET, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey. Jesus feet was standing on the Mount of Olives, and Jesus feet will stand there again according to Zech 14:4

You are assuming that Jesus feet were standing on the Mount of Olives, but the scripture only states that the disciples returned from the Mount of Olivet.  But also, the scriptures state that we will meet the Lord Jesus in the air when he comes for the church.  

The scripture in Zechariah states that the LORD'S feet will stand on the Mount of Olives.  Jesus is not YHWH, and also that same scripture states it this way:

Quote

Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.   Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee [to] the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, [and] all the saints with thee.

The scripture states that the LORD'S feet will stand on the Mount of Olives and then it states “and the LORD my God shall come, (and) all the holy ones with thee”.

From whence shall the LORD GOD COME, from the Mount of Olives?

I am limited for time, and so, I'll get back to you on the rest of your post to me.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi WJ:

The feet of Jesus, as well the feet of anyone who is a part of the body Christ, can be referred to as the LORD's feet, because his body is the Holy Temple of God, but that does not make him YHWH.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,23:50)

Hi WJ: The feet of Jesus, as well the feet of anyone who is a part of the body Christ, can be referred to as the LORD's feet, because his body is the Holy Temple of God, but that does not make him YHWH. Love in Christ, Marty

Hi 94

The scriptures do not say we are the “body of the Father” do they?

You still have not shown me any NT scripture that says the Father is leaving heaven and coming to the earth.

He is seated in heaven isnt he?

WJ

[Cindy]

W.J. Isn't there a Scripture that says that the earth is God's footstool? It is late at night and of hand I don't know were that Scripture is. Will get back with it tomorrow.
Peace and Love Irene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,23:28)

Hi WJ: Regarding the following: Quote Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,17:31) Hi WJ: Beginning with the head of the church, the Lord Jesus, and we who are his disciples are the Holy Temple of God.  Does YHWH literally have feet? No that is the Point, The Father doesn’t have literal feet. ”AND HIS FEET SHALL STAND IN THAT DAY UPON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES”, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. Compare with… Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? “THIS SAME JESUS, WHICH IS TAKEN UP FROM YOU INTO HEAVEN, SHALL SO COME IN LIKE MANNER AS YE HAVE SEEN HIM GO INTO HEAVEN”. Then returned they unto Jerusalem “FROM THE MOUNT CALLED OLIVET, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey. Jesus feet was standing on the Mount of Olives, and Jesus feet will stand there again according to Zech 14:4 You are assuming that Jesus feet were standing on the Mount of Olives, but the scripture only states that the disciples returned from the Mount of Olivet.  But also, the scriptures state that we will meet the Lord Jesus in the air when he comes for the church.   The scripture in Zechariah states that the LORD'S feet will stand on the Mount of Olives.  Jesus is not YHWH, and also that same scripture states it this way: Quote Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.   Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee [to] the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, [and] all the saints with thee. The scripture states that the LORD'S feet will stand on the Mount of Olives and then it states “and the LORD my God shall come, (and) all the holy ones with thee”. From whence shall the LORD GOD COME, from the Mount of Olives? I am limited for time, and so, I'll get back to you on the rest of your post to me. Love in Christ, Marty

Hi 94

So they left from the Mt of Olives but that wasn’t where Jesus was standing?

It seems insulting to the writers intelligence to suggest the statement “THEN” returned they unto Jerusalem “FROM THE MOUNT CALLED OLIVET” did not mean that that is where they were, because obviously if Jesus feet wasn’t standing on the Mt of Olives then the writer was wasting his breath.

Of course I see why you have to see it that way.

So let me see if I understand. The Fathers feet will stand on the Mount of Olives and the Father shall come from the Mount of Olives? Is this what you mean?

Where is this found in the New Testament? Where is the scripture that even implys that the Father is coming?

Blessings WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2009,20:37)

Hi WJ, You are so easily muddled. Unless you are reborn from above you cannot see the kingdom. Why not find teaching from Jesus that says he is God and there is a trinity

Hi NH

How do you know I am not born again?

How do I get reborn as you call it?

BTW did you know the word “reborn” is not found in scriptures? Since you are so quick to point out when certain words are not found in scriptures, just thought I would mention it.

Do I get reborn through water baptism? Isnt that what you teach?

Who is muddled?

WJ

[Not3in1]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,12:34)

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 10 2009,20:32) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,12:20) Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,17:31) There is “Only One God”, YHWH, the Father. Love in Christ, Marty Yes there is “Only One God”, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. You should listen to your Pastor. Blessings and Love Keith Instead of listening to our Pastor's, why not listen to Paul? 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live Love, Mandy Hi Mandy I have listened to Paul… while we wait for the blessed hope-the glorious *APPEARING* (epiphaneia) of our “GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR”, Jesus Christ, “WHO GAVE HIMSELF FOR US TO REDEEM US” from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. Titus 2:13, 14 Blessings WJ

Hi Keith,

But we both know that this passage has conflicting translations, right? Does the one I shared have conflicting messages – typically not. Which one should we trust?

Love,
Mandy

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