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Gene,
I did a little research on Google and found these words on thefreedictionary.com
[Middle English helle, from Old English; see kel- in Indo-European roots.]
Word History: When the Anglo-Saxons became Christian in early medieval times, the Old English word hel was used to translate the Latin word īnfernus, “the lower region, hell,” and designate the fiery place of eternal punishment for the damned. But what did hel designate before the conversion of the Anglo-Saxons? We can discover some indication of the original pagan meaning of hel by examining its Old Norse equivalent, hel. The medieval Scandinavians and Icelanders were converted from paganism much later than the Anglo-Saxons, and they preserved a good deal of pagan poetry revealing the ancient Scandinavian vision of the afterworld. The medieval Icelandic scholar Snorri Sturluson, a Christian, also paints a vivid picture of hel for us in his accounts of Norse myth (although his description may have been influenced by his own Christian conception of hell). The Old Norse hel is the abode of oathbreakers, other evil persons, and those unlucky enough to have died of old age or sickness rather than in the glory of the battlefield. Unlike the typical Christian conception of Hell, the Old Norse hel is very cold. It contrasts sharply with Valhalla, the hall in Asgard where heroes slain in battle carouse with the gods after death. In Old Norse, Hel is also the name of the goddess or giantess who presides in hel. She is the daughter of the god Loki and sister of the enormous wolf that will attack the gods at the end of the world. One half of Hel’s body is blue-black, while the other is white. The Indo-European root behind Old English hel and Old Norse hel, as well as their Germanic relatives like German Hölle, “hell,” is *kel-, “to cover, conceal.” In origin, hell is thus the “concealed place.” The root *kel-, also gives us other words for things that cover, conceal, or contain, such as hall, hole, hollow, helmet, and even Valhalla, from Old Norse Valhöll, literally the “Hall (höll) of the Slain (Valr).”
American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2011 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.As I have said Hel is the name of the Old English Netherworld, aka Afterworld, It is relate to words that mean cover, conceal, or contain.
Hi GB,
Hopefully your latest intemperate tirade will exhaust your bile and get you to rethink your foundation belief in your own ideas
Kerwin…….Another thing that covers, conciles, is called the grave. That is all the true word means, simply a grave that covers or concils,TO PUT IN THE GROUND AND CONCIL It, you are going after the pagan versions of a neithwrword where there pagan gods and others are alive exist in “living” torment Or whatever.
Go back and read read what you posted, only do not buy what those pagan views were about hell, it’s simply what covers, a grave does that. The ENGLISH WORD HELLOS MEANS TO SIMPLY TO BURY AND COVER, EXACTLY WHAT A GRAVE DOES WHEN WE ARE BURIED AFTER DEATH. Reading pagan thoughts into it and saying those pagans were right is exactly what you and NICK are doing.
peace and love to you and yours. ……………..gene
Kerwin…..I FORGOT TO SAY, THAT ENGLISH IS A GERMATIC LANGUAGE, REMEMBER THAT, SO IT MIGHT BE BETTER IF YOU SOUGHT YOUR ANSWER FOR THE WORD HELL FROM THAT SOURCE, INSTEAD OF THE OTHER PAGAN IDOLOGIES AND SOURCES. FROM WHAT I HAVE READ, IT SIMPLY MEANT TO COVER UP. IT ORIGINALLY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY AFTER LIFE. THAT IDOLOGY SPUING FROM PAGANS. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. …………………gene
Gene,
English is called a Germanic Language and that does not change anything since so are a vast number of the European languages. The Scandinavians, Saxons, and Angles are all Germanic peoples. They are also all Indo-Europeans and if we go back far enough they will all be one of the factions that split off from the descendants of Noah at the Tower of Babel. That changes nothing. The word Hell still is the name of the Netherworld and the Church of England translators chose to translate the Sheol, that the Jews have always believe was name of the Netherworld, to the word Hell.
The Germanic people whether Anglo-Saxons or the Normans who later invaded them were at one time pagan people and so Hell was originally used as the name of their pagan description of the Netherworld. That changes nothing either as the bottom is still that the Church of England translators chose to translate Sheol to Hell.
Do not insult me, as I know that one source can give a completely fictitious description about the city of London and another can give a true description of the same city and yet London still the name of a city. In even using such a bogus argument you are seeking to dodge the bottom line and that is that the name of the Netherworld in one language is translated to the name of another Netherworld in another language.
Gene,
The ENGLISH WORD HELLOS MEANS TO SIMPLY TO BURY AND COVER, EXACTLY WHAT A GRAVE DOES WHEN WE ARE BURIED AFTER DEATH
These words just show me that you are in denial and seeking to justify that denial. You are like a man with cancer who seeks to minimize that he is coughing up traces of blood instead of seeking medical aid. All I can do for you is to grieve.
Kerwin…… THANKSFOR YOU “GRIEVING HEART. SO WHEN PAGANS BELIEVE IN SOMETHING, THAT MAKES IT RIGHT? When plato taught about the continuence of life after death that also makes it right?, ARISTOL EVEN DRANK HIMLOCK,TO PROVE HIS IDEA ABOUT A LIFE AFTER DEATH, NON OF THOSE PAGANS WERE RIGHT, kerwin YOU HAVE JUST BOUGHT INTO ONE OF THE BIGEST LIES preached in false christianity, do you actually believe the PRODESTANT CHURCH OF ENGLAND taught the truth of GOD? Do you think those trinitaians BELIEVING THT JESUS WAS AND IS A GOD,were true christians preaching all thuth. Why don’t you belueve in the trinity also, seeing you believe in their oher teachings about the imoriality of the souls, and that when Jesus said he was dead he did not mean he was “truly” dead. Kerwin dead is truly dead, dead does not mean still alive, Common sense should tell you that IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. …………………gene
Nick…….ABRAHAM DIED “IN” GOD THROUGH HIS “FAITH” HIS HOPE RESTED IN GOD, SO IN THAT “SENSE” HE IS ALIVE. NOT THAT HE IS NOW A LIVING SOUL OF ANY KIND, HE WILL HIMSELF NOT LIVE UNTILL THE RESURECTION TAKES PLACE.
I AGREE WITH BEING ALIVE “IN” GOD ,IN THIS SENSE, BECAUSE WE ARE PERSERVED “BY” HIM. BUT THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE, THE ISSUE IS, YOU AND KERWIN ARE SAYING WE STILL EXIST AS A “LIVING SOULS” AFTER WE DIE, THAT IS NOT TRUE. IF WE CONSIDER THAT WE ARE ALL ALIVE IN GOD, I WOULD NOT ARGUE THAT POINT, BECAUSE IN, THAT SENSE, HE IS OUR LIFE BOTH NOW AND IN THE FUTURE.
WHEN JESUS WAS DYING ON THE CROSS OR TREE, HE SAID HE COMMENDED HIS SPIRIT INTO GOD’S HANDS, NOTHING ELSE WAS MENTIONED ABOUT A LIFE IN THE GRAVE IN ANY NEITHERWORLD OF ANYKIND, AT LEAST BY HIM THAT IS, THE WHOLE THING ABOUT THE SOUL GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE STILL ALIVE AFTER DEATH, IS NOTHING BUT PAGAN GARBAGE, THERE IS NO THOUGHT PROCESS TAKING PLACE AFTER DEATH, WE ARE TRULY GONE AND OUR “ONLY” POSSIBLE CHANCE TO LIVE IS IN THE HANDS OF GOD THE FATHER “ALONE”. Therefore if i die my SOUL, (my complete physical living being) rests in hope in the grave, waiting for the RESURECTION that will “WITTNESS” the “REDEMPTION” OF MY “BODY” JUST AS the Apostle Paul said.
peace and love to you and yours. ……………….gene
Gene,
Even a broken mechanical clock is right twice a day. The pagans have many of the same stories as the bible does but they take have taken liberties with them. The study of this phenomena is called comparative mythology. For example I have read the story of Eve’s fall from grace and the battle between Cain and Able that exists among one Native American tribe that is essentially an historic fictional account of those events.
That is irrelevant as it is the Church of England translators whom chose to translate the Greek pagan name of the Netherworld to the Old English name of the Netherworld and also chose to translate the non-pagan name of the Hebrew Netherworld to the Old English name of the Netherworld. Before them those that translated the LXX chose to translate the Hebrew name of the Netherworld to the Greek name of the Netherworld.
Hi GB,
So now you change tack and agree with Jesus but only in a prophetic sense.
You are wrong still of course
Nick……I have always said that ,not switching tracks, you and Kerwin believe we have a soul that separates, from our bodies and spirits, that is absolutely untrue. We “ARE” a living soul, that is the bodies we have and and the breath of life in it. Anyone who believes we are made of three separate componets are on the wrong track, that means you and Kerwin, who are on the wrong track.
Produce One scripture that say we are made of a body, spirit, and soul. Quit mouthing off about things that are irrelevant to the subjects and produce at least ONE SCRIPTURE THAT SAY THAT . You both spend so much time trying to prove your right and produce no scriptures that back you up. The only thing I have seen you do is to say the parable of the rich man and Lazarus are talking about the netherworld, you both take it as being literal, pertaining about an after life, before the resurrection, as souls still living after a person is dead, in a place of torment, or bless, neither of you even understand what a parable really is, you both think it is a literial event, not understanding it is a ‘fictious’ short, story depicting a spiritually true principle. You don’t even have a clue what the true principles being expressed by the rich man and Lazarus are.
All the scriptures I have produced you both ignored as if they were not even your bibles, you both don’t even commit on them , just act as if the were not even in our bible, then you both blurt out a bouncy of garbage of what pagans believe about the neither world and expect me to believe you. Kerwin even produces articles that clearly say what he believes, is from pagan sources, And even the very last part of that article plainly said, that the word hell means simply a covering like a grave and He still can’t put together what his own article said.
Instead of worrying about my spritual understand, I think you should be more worried about your own, I will let the God I have known and know deal with me, and I will trust him to teach me, not a couple of novices who believe in mystery pagan teachings of the netherworld, and the multiplicity of God’s.
Peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
HI GB
What is your take on these verses?
1 Samuel 28:14-21English Standard Version (ESV)
14 He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage.
15 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.” 16 And Samuel said, “Why then do you ask me, since the Lord has turned from you and become your enemy? 17 The Lord has done to you as he spoke by me, for the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord and did not carry out his fierce wrath against Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day. 19 Moreover, the Lord will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me. The Lord will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines.”
20 Then Saul fell at once full length on the ground, filled with fear because of the words of Samuel. And there was no strength in him, for he had eaten nothing all day and all night. 21 And the woman came to Saul, and when she saw that he was terrified, she said to him, “Behold, your servant has obeyed you. I have taken my life in my hand and have listened to what you have said to me.
Be… That was a special scremstance, that God allowed for the purpose of dealing with Saul. I believe we are all still alive in God only, but that has nothing to do with any activity going on in the grave taking place after death, nor does it say anything about people being conscious in the grave, participating in any torment or bless activity as a “living” Soul. That could have simply been a spiritual manifestation, you can not even find the word “soul” mentioned there.
Scripture tell us that when a man dies his thoughts parish, his body goes to the grave and return to the dust from which it came, and the spirit return to him who gave it. That represents the complete man. AS Genesis clearly tell us what is a LIVING SOUL , it says God took dust from the ground and formed a man, the he breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and then the man, became what? “A LIVING SOUL” that is exactly what a living human being is, nothing more and nothing less.
The word Na-fesh or SOUL means a complete living being, man is simply a physical body with the breath of life in him, and the rest is added by spirit as he attains it in his life, that is why we all have to be taught every little thing we learn, because we are not born with it, we atain it by different spirit intellects, and those spirits can come in all kind and types they are transmitted into us and effect our thinking, but when we die those spirits leave us and we, the complete once “living soul” go back to the earth where we came from. There is no councious life after death, in my opinion, but God can cause it to come into existence again any time he wants it to, and return it back as in the case of Samuel. All things are possible with God. When people start speculating on a special event by adding their own thoughts into it and trying to make it means something not clearly said or written in scriptures that’s when all these false doctrines get there start from.
If you notice most use words that not even used in those events trying to force the text to say what it is not even saying. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Gene,
The witch of Endore was known to summon the dead, even before she summoned the soul of Samuel.
That does not sound like special circumstances to me.
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