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Nick…..I ASK YOU TO LOOKUP THE MEANING USED THERE FOR “LIVING” `it means “TO LIVE” JESUS WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE STILL ALIVE, BUT THOSE WHO WILL BE IN THE RESURECTION OF “THE DEAD”.
YOU NEED TO REALIZE WHAT THIS ALSO IMPLIES WHAT JESUS WAS ADDRESSING ( AS TOtUCHING THE RESURECTION “THE DEAD”) ARE YOU SAYING THE DEAD ARE ALREADY RESURECTED WHEN THEY DIED?, THEN YOU MAKE ARE SAYING JESUS IS NOT THE “FIRST” TO BE “RESURECTED” TO ETERNAL LIFE FROM DEAD THEN. In facT he is proceeded IN THE RESURECTION by ABRAHAM, ISACC, JACKOB, MOSES, ELIJAH, AND HOW MANY MILLIONS OF OTHERS.
In fact you are saying the dead do not even die at all. So when JESUS SAID HE WAS DEAD, AND NOW ALIVE FOREVERMORE, YOU ARE MAKING HIM INTO A LIAR. GOD DOD NOT HAVE TO RESURECTION HIM FROM THE DEAD BECAUSE IN YOUR VIEW HE NEVER DIED,IT WAS ALL A SHAM.
Here is another one you can think about NICK.
ACTS 2.26….Therefore my heart rejoice,and my tongue was glad; MOREOVER also MY FLESH SHALL REST IN HOPE: BECAUSE THOU WILL NOT LEAVE “MY SOUL” IN HELL, NEITHER WILL YOU SUFFER YOUR HOLY ONE TO SEE CORUPTION. 29, MEN AND BRETHERN let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both “DEAD” AND BURIED and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Question Nick IS DAVID ALSO STILL ALIVE? ALSO JESUS SAID HIS “FLESH” RESTRED IN HOPE, WHY? , DOES HIS “FLESH” REST IN HOPE?, WAS IT NOT, BECAUSE GOD WOULD NOT LEAVE HIS FLESH/SOUL IN HELL (THE GRAVE) TO SEE CORUPTION, WHERE? IN THE GRAVE OR HELL, SAME THING.
Heres more for you tothinkabout Nick, 1 Cor 15:20, Butnow is Christ risen from the dead, and became the “FIRSTFRUITS” OF THEM THAT SLEEP (FURIGUTIVELY “DECEASED” ) , 23, BUT “EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER” : CHRIST THE “FIRSTFRUITS”; “AFTERWARDS” THEY THAT ARE CHRIST’S, WHEN? AT HIS COMMING.
SO NICK IS JESUS PROCEEDED IN THE RESUTECTION BY OTHER AS YOU SAY HE IS? THESE ARE JUST A FEW A COULD GIVE YOU MANY MORE SCRIPTURES THAT PROVE WHEN A MAN DIES HE IS TRULY “DEAD”, AND HE MUST ATAIN TO THE REZURECTION FROM THE STATE OF THE “DEAD” AND “DEAD” IS NOT SAYING HE IS STILL “ALIVE” AFTER HE IS “DEAD”, AS YOU AND OTHERS FASELY ASSUME AND PREACH. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. ……………..gene
Hi GB,
You keep asking us to prove you wrong but then bray about your own ideas
It is up to you to prove these ideas from scripture and not your intellects.
Nick……POINT IS NOT ABOUT DEAD SLEEP IN THE GRAVE, IT IS, IS HE REALLY “DEAD” IN THE GRAVE? YOU AND KERWIN SAY A MAN has a continue activated “soul” and IS STILL ALIVE AN ACTIVE AFTER HE DIES, THAT IS THE BIG ISSUE HERE.
You believe in the imortality of the SOUL, CLAIMING IT IS STILL ALIVE AFTER THE BODIY DIES. I HAVE PRODUCED SCRIPTURES THAT SAY THERE IS NO THOUGHT PROCESS AFTER A PERSON DIES, HE IS COMPLETELY UNCOUNCIOUS IN A STATE BEING DEAD, AND WOULD REMAIN THAT WAY FOREVER IF HE IS NOT RESURECTED BACK TO LIFE FROM THE GRAVE.
HERE IS SOMETHING I AGREE WITH BUT DID NOT WRITE IT.
Greek influence on church doctrine.
Greek influence was not limited to the perversion of monotheism or the nature of the son of GOD. It reached out to the formulation of other doctrines–the teaching about the nature of man and his destiny. “Origen (ca. 185-254) was an admire of Plato and believed in THE IMOMORTALITY OF THE SOUL and that it would depart to an everlasting reward or everlasting punishment AT DEATH.
In DE PRINCIPIIS, ORIGEN WROTE: “the soul having a substance and life of its own, shall after its departure from the world, be rewarded according to its deserts, being destined to obtain either an inheritance of eternal life and blessedness, if “ITS” actions shall have procured this for “IT”, or to be delievered up to eternal fire and punishment, if the guilt of “ITS” crimes shall have brought “IT” down to this.”
Later AUGUSTINE (354-430) tackeled the same problem of “the immortality of the soul and death. FOR AUGUSTINE death meant the destruction of the body. BUT he taught that the conscious “SOUL” would continue to live in either a blissful state with God or an agonizing state of seperation from GOD. IN THE CITY OF GOD, he wrote that the SOUL is therefore called IMMORTAL, because in this sense, “IT” does not cease to live and to feel; while the body is called mortal because it can be forsaken of all life, and cannot itself live at all. THE death, then of the SOUL takes place when God forsakes “IT”, as the death of the body when the SOUL FORSAKES IT”
THE influence of PAGAN PLATONIC philosophy on ORIGEN AND AUGUSTINE IS PROFOUND. It should be deeply unsettling.
The aurthor goes on to say , “this could be connected to the Thessalonians ignorance about those who are asleep. Their GREEK BACKROUND made it difficult for them to place the CORRECT IMPORTANCE on the future “RESURECTION OF THE DEAD”, rather than on a pagan “IMMORTAL SOUL” concept fostered by the Greek mindset.I did not write that, but i do agree with it.
You all can read this complete artical at http://www.restorationfellowship.org
peace and love to you and yours. ………………..gene
Hi GB,
Yes you do believe in your own ideas and anyone who says similar things also gets a big tick.
When are you going to be based on scripture and not yourself?
Nick……quite trash talking and prove what i have said is wrong. Try to contain you accusitory spirit that is active in you. Show scripture that “clearly say what you say, show us one clear scripture that says a man is still alive after he is dead, show us how a parable is not a short “fictious” story that shows a spritually true moral principal. Show us how MOSES AND ELIJAH WERE “ACTUALLY” RAISED FROM THE DEAD AND WERE THERE ON THE MOUNT OF TRANSFIGURATION, and that the KINGDOM HAD ACTUALLY CAME THAT DAY.
DON’T NEED YOU TRASH TALK FROM YOUR ACCUSITORY SPIRIT WORKING IN YOU, JUST PROOF OF WHAT “YOU” SAY IS THE TRUTH.
Peace and love to you and yours. …………….gene
Gene,
You believe in the imortality of the SOUL, CLAIMING IT IS STILL ALIVE AFTER THE BODIY DIES. I HAVE PRODUCED SCRIPTURES THAT SAY THERE IS NO THOUGHT PROCESS AFTER A PERSON DIES, HE IS COMPLETELY UNCOUNCIOUS IN A STATE BEING DEAD, AND WOULD REMAIN THAT WAY FOREVER IF HE IS NOT RESURECTED BACK TO LIFE FROM THE GRAVE.
When I sleep I am not dead. I assure you that when I stop breathing in the night then I awake as a protective action. The same is true with being unconscious though if the person stops breathing their body may die instead of them waking up.
There is no such passage in Scripture. There is one that states “the dead know not any thing” and gives the reason for this statement as “for the memory of them is forgotten”. I am not sure what the connection is between the two.
biblehub.com presents this hypothesis from the Pulpit Commentary but you have not shown your self willing to consider and test other viewpoints.
Verse 5. – For the living know that they shall die. This is added in confirmation of the statement in ver. 4. The living have at least the consciousness that they will soon have to die, and this leads them to work while it is day, to employ their faculties worthily, to make use of opportunities, to enjoy and profit by the present. They have a certain fixed event to which they must look forward; and they have not to stand idle, lamenting their fate, but their duty and their happiness is to accept the inevitable and make the best of it. But the dead know not anything. They are cut off from the active, bustling world; their work is done; they have nothing to expect, nothing to labor for. What passes upon earth affects them not; the knowledge of it reaches them no longer. Aristotle’s idea was that the dead did know something, in a hazy and indistinct way, of what went on in the upper world, and were in some slight degree influenced thereby, but not to such a degree as to change happiness into misery, or vice versa (‘Eth. Nicom.,’ 1:10 and 11). Neither have they any more a reward; i.e. no fruit for labor done. There is no question here about future retribution in another world. The gloomy view of the writer at this moment precludes all idea of such an adjustment of anomalies after death. For the memory of them is forgotten. They have not even the poor reward of being remembered by loving posterity, which in the mind of an Oriental was an eminent blessing, to be much desired. There is a paronomasia in zeker, “memory,” and sakar, “reward,” which, as Plumptre suggests, may be approximately represented in English by the words “record” and “reward.”
The bottom line is that you are using controversial premises in order to support your conclusion and so your conclusion is unsound and therefore unconvincing. It also breaks Scripture, which means it is a false teaching.
Gene,
I do not say the soul is immortal since Jesus states it is destroyed along with the body in Gehenna. I instead claim that human beings do not destroy it as they destroy the body. According to you a bullet that kills a destroys both their body and soul. That claim of yours is false.
Gene,
ACTS 2.26….Therefore my heart rejoice,and my tongue was glad; MOREOVER also MY FLESH SHALL REST IN HOPE: BECAUSE THOU WILL NOT LEAVE “MY SOUL” IN HELL, NEITHER WILL YOU SUFFER YOUR HOLY ONE TO SEE CORUPTION. 29, MEN AND BRETHERN let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both “DEAD” AND BURIED and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
These words are saying the opposite of what you claim they are saying. Hel is the Old English underworld, Hades is the Greek underworld, and Sheol is the Hebrew Netherworld. This verse is quoted from the OT and if you look you will find that the word Sheol is translated to Hell. The name of the Netherworld in one language is translated to the name of the Netherworld in another. This verse from the NT is likewise translated from the Greek word that is a name of the Netherworld to the Old English word for Netherworld.
In short David is speaking for his Son and saying that God will not leave his soul in the Netherworld nor will he let his corpse see decay. Your flesh rules you and its most obvious fruit is denial as none of this is either hidden or hard to understand. You can play with words all you want and does not change what God is saying.
Nick,
I am not sure where you are coming from as I did say “I do not say the soul is immortal since Jesus states it is destroyed along with the body in Gehenna”.
That agrees with your quote of Jesus.
Kerwin…..SO MY “FLESH” SHALL REST IN HOPE BECAUSE THOU WILL NOT LEAVE “MY SOUL” IN HELL, DOES NORT MEANTHE “GRAVE’ TO YOU BUT A NEITHERWORLD OF LIVING BEINGS RESTING IN PARADISE?
KERWIN YEAR AGO I DID A WORD SHEARCH ON THE WORD HELL, it said as irecall, the word came from the word hellos meaning to put under the ground, it neve meant a netherworld of the still alive souls, that is the MYTHOLOGICAL GREEK MINDSET, ABOUT PEOPLE STILL ALIVE AFTER THEY ARE DEAD. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ALSO TEACHES THAT ALSO , CALLED PERGITORY. SCRIPTURE SHOWS AS IHAVE PRESENTED OVER AND OVER, WHEN A MAN DIES HE IS TRULY DEAD. THERE IS NO CONTINUENCE OF A LIFE AFTER HE DIES, HE MUST BE “RESURECTED FROM DEATH, BACK TO LIFE AGAIN BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD. THAT IS OUR “ONLY” HOPEOF LIVING AGAIN. IMO
TELL ME THIS KERWIN….WHEN JESUS CRIED out ,MY GOD,MY GOD, HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME, WAS HE THINKING HE WAS GOING TO PARADISE OR TO A NEITHERWORLD OF BLESS, AND WHEN HE DROPED DOWN ON HIS KNEES AND ASK GOD TO REMOVE THIS CUP FROM HIM, DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A MAN THAT THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO BLESSED PARADISE ANOTHER PLACE IN THE NEITHERWORLD? , I HONESTLY THINK NOT BROTHER.
KERWIN, YOU HAVE LET PAGAN GREEK MYTHOLOGY INFLUENCE YOUR THINKING BROTHER IMO.
peace and love to you and yours. ……………….gene
HiGB,
What you THINK bears no weight in finding the truth.
Your personal beliefs are obstructing truth.
Nick…..AND WHAT YOU “THINK” only alines with GREEK PLATOIAN PAGAN INFLUENCE IN THE TRUE CHURCH OF GOD. WHEN GOD SAYS THE “SOUL”THAT SINS SHALL DIE, (have you ever sinned?) O THATS RIGHT GOD’S WORDS MEAN NOTHING TO YOU, BECAUSE YOU DO NOT BELIEVE A PERSON WHO SINS SOUL REALLY DOES DIE, YOU AS AS KERWIN BELIEVE THE SOUL GOES ALIVE TO A NEITHERWORLD. YOU BELIEVE GOD THE FATHER DID NOT “REALLY” MEAN WHAT HE SAID, HE WAS JUST LYING, BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE the “SOUL” KEEPS “LIVING” WHEN A PERSON WHO HAS SINNED DIES. Nick, I HARDLY NEED A NOVICE LIKE YOU who hasn’t a clue what he is talking about, with reguards to the subject of a continuing living soul after death, trying to lead by you own PLATONIAN, INFLUENCED, carnel logic, to represent spriturial things to me.
Nick……You haven’t a clue what you are talking about on the subject of the “SOUL” STILL ALIVE AFTER DEATH. IT IS NOT ALIVE IT IS DEAD, A “LIVING” SOUL IS, A BODY + THE BREATH OF LIFE IN IT, nothing more and nothing less. A “DEAD” SOUL IS A BODY “WITHOUT” THE BREATH OF LIFE IN IT, NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS. THE WORD (neh’-fesh) SIMPLY MEANS “PROPERLY”, A “BREATHING CREATURE”, NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS. When you die you are no longer a “BREATHING CREATURE”. MAKING MAN OUT TO BE MORE THEN HE IS, IS PURE FOOLISHNESS. Your garbing straws to try to keep yourself alive when you die, but that will not be the case, you will be truly “DEAD” AND NOT JUST PART OF YOU BUT “ALL” OF YOU. UNLESS YOU ATTAIN TO THE RESURECTION FROM THAT DEAD STATE YOU WILL NEVER LIVE AGAIN, IT IS ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL WE, ALL ATTAIN UNTO THE RESURECTION FROM THE DEAD, a actual resurected BODY with the “BREATH OF LIFE in it, IN ORDER TO EVER LIVE AGAIN. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. ……………..gene
Hi GB,
No doubt you will explain to Jesus how he got it wrong.
How long will you teach from your own ideas?
Hi GB,
Ironically your holding tight to your own nonscriptural illogical ideas stops you from being taught by God.
Gene,
Kerwin…..SO MY “FLESH” SHALL REST IN HOPE BECAUSE THOU WILL NOT LEAVE “MY SOUL” IN HELL, DOES NORT MEANTHE “GRAVE’ TO YOU BUT A NEITHERWORLD OF LIVING BEINGS RESTING IN PARADISE?
I believe it because the word Hel is the name of the Netherworld in Old English. Of course you course you consider the fact that Hel is the name of the Netherworld as inconvenient to your teaching but the bottom line is the various translators chose to translate the name of the Netherworld in one language to the name of the Netherworld in another language and it was not just coincidental.
Are you going to claim that these translators did not know what they were doing even though it is a fact that Peter quoted from one of these translations? Your actions are not wise to stubbornly hold to an obvious lie. You do not have a case to support your chosen teachings. You are aware that part of your job is to watch your teachings and make sure they conform to the truth so why are you not doing it?
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