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LU: The Father and Son created man in their image.
Um… scripture says God created man in HIS image – not “their” image. Please reconcile your statement with scripture.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:…
V.27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them….
Colossians 1:15 (Jesus) Who is the image of the invisible God,….
Hebrews1 :3 (Jesus)Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person…
My conclusion is that since the Only Begotten Son of God is THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF THE FATHER, THE REFLECTION OF HIS GLORY, THE MAN WHO WAS CREATED IN THE BEGINNING IS IN THE IMAGE OF THE FATHER AND THE SON. AND SO VERSES 26 and 27 of Genesis 1 ARE IN HARMONY.
Berean, that would be a valid conclusion if you first assume that the “our image” part of Gen 1:26 refers ONLY to Jesus. How do you know that God wasn’t talking to His entire heavenly court? After all, the other gods (you call them “angels”) are also sons of God, and therefore share God’s image just as Jesus does and just as all the human sons of God do, right?
So I agree that when God created them in HIS image, it means in the image of both God AND His heavenly sons like Jesus. Not ONLY His son Jesus… but ALL of His heavenly sons. After all, if every man who has ever lived shares the image of God, why then would Jesus be God’s only heavenly son who shares God’s image?
This is most natural understanding of the verse, as explained by even the 25 Trinitarian scholars who produced the NET Bible…
In its ancient Israelite context the plural is most naturally understood as referring to God and his heavenly court (see 1 Kgs 22:19-22; Job 1:6-12; 2:1-6; Isa 6:1-8). (The most well-known members of this court are God’s messengers, or angels. In Gen 3:5 the serpent may refer to this group as “gods/divine beings.” See the note on the word “evil” in 3:5.) If this is the case, God invites the heavenly court to participate in the creation of humankind (perhaps in the role of offering praise, see Job 38:7), but he himself is the one who does the actual creative work (v. 27). Of course, this view does assume that the members of the heavenly court possess the divine “image” in some way. Since the image is closely associated with rulership, perhaps they share the divine image in that they, together with God and under his royal authority, are the executive authority over the world.
Berean: Jesus… is not the God who anointed him.
And who is the God that anointed Jesus?
Psalm 2:1-2… Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together, against Yahweh and against His Anointed One.
Notice that Yahweh is one, and His Anointed One is someone other than Yahweh. So who then is “His Anointed One”?
Acts 4:24-27… When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David:
“ ‘Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth rise up and the rulers band together against the Lord and against his anointed one.’
Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.
This one passage makes so many things so clear. First of all, it’s clear that the one they were praying to is the one who created the heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything in them. And it’s clear that Jesus isn’t that one – but instead the holy servant and anointed one OF that one, right?
So it’s undeniably clear that Jesus is NOT the Creator, but the holy servant OF the Creator.
Secondly, it was Peter (the one Jesus said he’d build his church upon) and John (the one beloved by Jesus) who led this prayer to the God they knew created all things, right? So there was never any thought in their minds that Jesus WAS that God. Jesus’ closest disciples were well aware that Jesus wasn’t God – but the holy servant OF God, right?
And finally, we learn that Jesus was indeed the anointed one who was spoken about by the Holy Spirit through David in Psalm 2, right?
And who was Jesus the anointed one of? YAHWEH, right?
So for you and Kathi, how on earth could Jesus both BE Yahweh, and also be the anointed one and holy servant OF Yahweh?
If Yahweh is truly a “Unity of both Father and Son”, then it would mean that Jesus is the anointed one and holy servant of both Father and Son, right?
Can Jesus be his own anointed one? Can Jesus be his own holy servant?
Both the Trinity Doctrine and Kathi’s Doctrine (which is identical minus one person) are built on shifting sand, Berean. Jesus isn’t Yahweh in any way, shape or form… not even by name. Instead, Yahweh is our and Jesus’ God. Jesus is His anointed one, servant, prophet, spokesman, priest, representative, and sacrificial lamb.
I’m not lying to you, Berean. I’m telling you the truth right from the scriptures themselves. Don’t allow yourself to be taken in by Kathi’s bizarre and purposeful misinterpretations of a few obscure verses. Yahweh is one (not two), and He (not they) is both our God and Jesus’ God.
Mike,
You asked Berean:
If Yahweh is one god, and Jesus is not the same god as Yahweh, then Jesus has no choice but to be a different god, right?
If Yahweh is the great and awesome God who is both God and Lord, two persons who are each Yahweh as well as together the Unity of Yahweh, then one can anoint the other. Problem solved. One can also send the other. Problem solved. One can also be the father of the other. Problem solved. One can create with the other. Problem solved.
Mike
Humanity was created in the image of God , BUT JESUS IS *THE* EXPRESS IMAGE OF GOD THE FATHER, THE REFLECTION OF HIS GLORY (HEBREWS1)
Can you see the difference between BEING CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD (Genesis 1)..and BEING THE IMAGE OF GOD (Colossians 1and Hebrews1)?Hi Danny,
You said:
In Deut 10:17 Yahweh is identified as God of gods, and Lord of lords!
Jesus Christ is His Son.
Do you agree?Did you read the OP of this thread? Yahweh is both God and Lord, two persons. Jesus is one of those two persons, He is our Lord.
Hi LU,
You didn’t answer the question.
In Deut 10:17 Yahweh is identified as God of gods, and Lord of lords!
Jesus Christ is His Son.
Do you agree?LU: If Yahweh is the great and awesome God who is both God and Lord, two persons who are each Yahweh as well as together the Unity of Yahweh, then one can anoint the other.
Nonsense. You can’t just pick and choose when you want “Yahweh” to mean “Father”, when you want it to mean “Son”, and when you want it to mean “Unity of Father and Son”.
You should take a good HARD look at my last post to Berean.
Oh, and please answer the two questions I asked you this morning…
Is there a LIVING BEING mentioned anywhere in Gen 1:1? Yes or No?
In which of the three instances I listed above does it mean that the representative/angel of Yahweh actually IS Yahweh Himself?
Thanks.
Danny: Hi LU,
You didn’t answer the question.
In Deut 10:17 Yahweh is identified as God of gods, and Lord of lords!
Jesus Christ is His Son.
Do you agree?Well done, Danny.
Hey Kathi, I think Danny wants to know if you agree that Jesus is the son of the entity called “the God of gods and Lord of lords” in scripture. I’d also like to know. Thanks.
I’d also like to know how “god of gods” works with your definition of “god”. “Idea of positions”? 😁
And what the heck, why not also tell us your definition of “lord” while you’re at it. Does that word also refer to an “idea/position”? Or does it refer to an actual living being?
Berean: Mike
Humanity was created in the image of God , BUT JESUS IS *THE* EXPRESS IMAGE OF GOD THE FATHER, THE REFLECTION OF HIS GLORY (HEBREWS1)
Can you see the difference between BEING CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD (Genesis 1)..and BEING THE IMAGE OF GOD (Colossians 1and Hebrews1)?Anyone produced in the image of God would, by definition, have the image of God. Jesus is the closest to God of all, and therefore his likeness to the God who made him would, could, and should be amplified over anyone else. Consider…
Psalm 8:5… You have made them a little lower than the gods, and crowned them with glory and honor.
Do you see the similarities? Yes, both the gods and man were created in God’s image, but the gods are amplified as a little greater than man because the likeness of the gods to their own God is greater than the likeness of man to God.
Again…
1 Corinthians 11:7-9… A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
Do you see the similarities? Yes, God created both male and female in His image… but man is amplified over woman for the reasons listed in the passage. It’s a hierarchy, as listed here…
1 Corinthian 11:3… But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
The hierarchy goes…
1. God
2. Christ
3. Other spirit sons of God (not listed in the above)
4. Man
5. Woman
6. Beasts of the earth that have souls (not listed in the above)
7. Etc.
So to put that in context of being in the likeness of God…
1. The likeness of women to God is greater than the likeness of beasts to God.
2. The likeness of man to God is greater than the likeness of woman to God.
3. The likeness of angels to God is greater than the likeness of man to God.
4. The likeness of Jesus to God is greater than the likeness of the other angels to God.
So yes, while we and the angels are made in the image of God, Jesus, as God’s firstborn and only-begotten, is the EXPRESS image and EXACT representation of Him.
Bottom line IS: Jesus is more like his and our God than anyone else.
Bottom line IS NOT: Jesus IS his and our God – or any part thereof.
To all……..WHAT YOU PEOPLE ARE MISSING, IN YOUR UNDERSTANDING IS THIS.
Satan wanys all of us to move Jesus’ idenity away from ourselves, in relationship with God the Father , WHY?
1….So we won’t develop and mature properly, so he created a “LIE” about Jesus, so we will lose our perseption of who God the Father is, and who “the” (man) , Jesus’ Christ is. ASK yourselfs , who and what, was the main focus of all creation in the OLD Testement scriptures , was it not God alone?
Yes it was , God the Father woho created e erything that existed and he did it by himself and alone accordingto the scriptures in Isaiah God even said “he looked for other Gods and found none” said “he was God and there was no other.”, God intervened in the lives of men , manny lifes, hundreds of them as written in our scriptures.
When God Gave his commandments, as he had a right to do, the very first commandements dealt with our refationship with him and him alone. He told our forefathers in very clear words.
“I am the LORD , your God, which have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage”.
YOU SHALL NO OTHER GODS/gods “before” me!
YOU SHALL NOT MAKE UNTO YOU “ANY” , greaven “IMAGE”, of “ANY” or “ANY” lokeness of “ANY” THING that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters under the earth”.
YOU SHALL NOT, bow down youeself to them, nor serve them, “BECAUSE”, I THE LORD “YOUR” GOD AM A “JEALOUS” God”.
ALL OF YOU, please tell me this, does Jesus the “man”, Fit any of the catagories that God said we are not bown down to there? DID God the Father make any exceptions , for Jesus in his commandments to us all?
Satan and his millions of mins, preachers, ect , have truned Jesus into another God, they bown down to and worrship as there God. DO you actually believe God the Father Has some how changed his mind about this? If you asked Jesus what do you think he would say., i will give you his answer, “this is eternal life , that they might come to know “YOU” THE “ONLY’ TRUE GOD’.
Can you now see., Satan turned the “IMAGE” of Jesus in to a GOD. 2THS2. are you one of those worshiping Jesus as “YOUR” GOD?
Then you have fallenfor the biggest “LIE” , ever fostered on humanity. REPENT , MY prayer is that God the Father will grant, us all to repent of the evil’s we have commited and are commiting.
Peace and love to you all and yours……….gene
Deut 10:17… For Yahweh your God is God of gods and Lord of lords…
Psalm 2:7…I will proclaim the decree spoken to me by Yahweh: “You are My Son; today I have begotten you.”
Kathi, I’m asking for Danny… Are the scriptures above telling the truth when they teach us that Jesus is the son OF the God of gods and Lord of lords
Daniel 2:47… The king answered unto Daniel: Your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings…
Hey Kathi, I found the third person so you can go back to being a normal Trinitarian again!
God of gods = Yahweh the Father
Lord of lords = Yahweh the Son
Lord of kings = Yahweh the Holy Spirit
😉
Gene: ALL OF YOU, please tell me this, does Jesus the “man”, Fit any of the catagories that God said we are not bown down to there? DID God the Father make any exceptions , for Jesus in his commandments to us all?
Philippians 2:9-11… Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
This says it will be to God’s glory that all knees in heaven and on earth bow to the servant that He exalted as King.
Gene, your understanding of scripture is lacking. I’m trying to help you with that in our private thread, where you have a couple of simple questions waiting for you. Cheers
Bottom line IS: Jesus is more like his and our God than anyone else.
Bottom line IS NOT: Jesus IS his and our God – or any part thereof.
Mike ,
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[16] For BY HIM were created all things in the heavens and on the earth, visible and invisible,[19] For it has pleased the Father that all fullness dwell in him. (Col.1:19)
For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. (Col.2:9)
THE FULLNESS OF THE DIVINITY 👉For BY HIM were created all things…
THE FULLNESS OF THE DIVINITY WHICH MAKES CHRIST THE EXACT IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD IS THAT CHRIST RECEIVED THE ATTRIBUTES OF HIS FATHER:
THE POWER TO CREATE THE UNIVERSE (AMONG OTHERS)
THIS IS WHY JOHN WRITTEN: AND THE WORD WAS GOD…All things were made BY HIM; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, BY WHOM are all things, and we by him.
Berean: THIS IS WHY JOHN WRITTEN: AND THE WORD WAS GOD…
All things were made BY HIM
John wrote no such things. But let’s scrutinize your claims against scripture…
What is the name of the Most High God, Berean?
What is the name of the creator of the heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything in them.
Berean: THIS IS WHY JOHN WRITTEN: AND THE WORD WAS GOD…
All things were made BY HIM
John wrote no such things. But let’s scrutinize your claims against scripture…What is the name of the Most High God, Berean?
What is the name of the creator of the heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything in them.
Me
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.Mike
Who IS THE WORD FOR YOU?
For me HE IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.
AND IN THE BIGINNING, HE WAS WITH THE GOD AND HE WAS GOD.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Am I making something up?
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