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Mike,
You said:
“In the beginning, A LIVING BEING THOUGHT TO HAVE POWERS OVER NATURE AND THE AFFAIRS OF MEN created the heaven and the earth.”
Oh look, you are saying that the idea of being in the position of having powers over nature and the affairs of men is what people believe about who or what they associate with the word “god.”
Thanks for the confirmation! LU
Mike,
You said:
First of all, does that sound anything like our shepherd Jesus? Secondly, that is indeed a prophecy, but one that was given AFTER Zechariah had already literally been given and gave back the 30 pieces of silver. It has absolutely nothing to do with the 30 pieces.
Obviously, as you can see, the shepherd is not what is symbolizing Jesus in that chapter.
It seems that the story that Zechariah is told to dress up for and tell is the back story part of the prophecy as it leads up to what will happen in the future. The foolish shepherds are possibly the religious leaders and or government who are supposed to be caring for the flock but instead are being very careless as they seek the death of the “lamb of God” which is perhaps the “fat sheep” in the story that is so undervalued by them. In Zechariah, Yahweh associates Himself as the one who was poorly valued. In Matthew, we see that Jesus is the “Yahweh” of the story/prophecy that appears to have been given to both prophets, Jeremiah and Zechariah.
What is also amazing about the prophecy is that the foolishness of those foolish “shepherds” as played out during the Judas betrayal, was not only known by Yahweh hundreds of years beforehand, but He directed it to play out that way.
Yahweh, in the person of the Son as it seems here, set those dudes up who were going to have their boastful plans come back to haunt them as the complete fools who slaughtered Him as the “Lamb of God,” their own Messiah, who they paid Judas 30 pieces of silver for. Yahweh has a sense of humor, wouldn’t you say?! They played right into His hand. The result, Yahweh in the person of the Son, puts the end to the power of the enemy over sin and death. Yeah for team Yahweh!
Blessings, LU
Gene,
You asked:
Question to you and all others here is, Have you made Jesus the (IMAGE) OF YOUR GOD , 2THS2.
Well, actually the Father made Jesus the image of God. He deserves that credit, but thanks anyway. 🙂
Take care, LU
Hi Danny,
Thanks for the reply. Your video man is short-sighted in my opinion, leaving out important parts of Hebrews 1. Hebrews starts out saying that the world was made through the Son, verse 10 expands on that.
Also, the one who is “saying” things is consistently the same person, the Father. Your video man seems to not get that.
v. 5 For to which of the angels did HE ever say, (that is the Father as the He).
v. 6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, HE says…(again the Father is the “He” who is speaking).
v. 13 but to which of the angels has He ever said…(again the Father is the “He” who is speaking).
v.8 But of the Son He says…The “He says” is added because it is implied since the “but” is there as a comparison that the speaker is making between the angels and the Son. (The speaker is once again the Father.)
A basic truth that the video man is missing is that in the beginning, the Only Begotten God was with the God no one has ever seen (John 1:18 NASB 1995), and through that only begotten God, the world was made (John 1:3, Heb 1, Col 1)…the foundation of the earth was laid and the heavens were also the works of the Only Begotten God’s hands. The Only Begotten God did not work independently of the Only True God who has never been seen, but in accord with Him. They together created, and hence rule and reign over creation and the affairs of men as one Yahweh Unity.
What should tip you off besides all that regarding the short-sightedness of the video man is that he completely misses the fact that the Only Begotten God, through whom the world was made, was made lower than the angels to become a man in order to redeem man, and this is why He became so much better than the angels. It is certainly not because that He was as if He was always lower than the angels. The Only Begotten God, in fact made the angels when all things in heaven and on earth, both visible and invisible were made (Col 1).
Hebrews 1 isn’t hard to follow. Read it remembering that v.2 establishes that the Son is the appointed heir of all things and that through the Son, i.e. the Only Begotten God, the world was made.
If Yahweh alone created the heavens and the earth, then Yahweh must be the Father AND the Son in unity…the God of gods AND the Lord of lords…the Most High Unity.
Danny,
Don’t you see that the two who have the exact same nature, and were in the beginning with each other, and where one through the other made all things, are our God and Lord (2Cor 8:6) whom Jesus says are ONE (John 10:30)??? Are you really wanting to close your mind to the idea of a Unity of the highest order between them both? The idea of being united is throughout scripture. Could you honestly say that in the beginning, before all things were created, that the Father and the Son were NOT in UNITY??? To me that is absurd and would completely disqualify the Son to become the unblemished Lamb that was slain. In order for you to deny that the two who together made the world as a Unity, there must be some blind spot in how you are understanding their relationship.
Either they were in Unity in the beginning before creation or they were not in Unity before creation. Which one was it? If you can see that they were in Unity…what was the name of the Unity? Yahweh = the God of gods + the Lord of lords (two persons), i.e. the Yahweh Unity.
Blessings, LU
Mike,
You said:
Also, who else in the Bible shares an exact name with his father? That’s somewhat popular now, but can you show us any scriptural examples?
And thirdly, let’s say there was King David, and his son David Jr. Sharing a name wouldn’t make David Jr mighty, or a great warrior, or a husband, or a king – just because his father and namesake was those things – right? It wouldn’t even make David Jr a PART of any of those things.
So even IF (it’s not true, but even IF) our Lord, who is named Jesus, was also named Yahweh after his father, it STILL wouldn’t make Jesus the Most High God, or even PART of a Most High God unity anyway.
With all that you said, why would I waste my time trying to find a son named after his father. Let’s say I found ten, then what, you would just dismiss it as meaning that Jesus was Yahweh anyway.
I’ve put plenty of time into reconciling the 30 pieces of silver prophecy. Chew on that for a while.
Besides, it really doesn’t require any other son named after their father to make it true of the Only Begotten Son who has the exact same nature and character as His Father. Name reflect character in the Bible.
Blessings, LU
Gene
Question to you and all others here is, Have you made Jesus the (IMAGE) OF YOUR GOD , 2THS2.
Me
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
[14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:[15] Who( Jésus) is the image of the invisible GOD
, the firstborn of every creature:
[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.Berean: CHRIST IS GOD AND MAN
Hi Berean. Is Christ (which means: anointed one of God) the same God as the God who anointed him?
Danny: I have found an answer to Hebrews 1 and Psalm 102 that
I personally believe is the biblical one.
It will be explained in a video from a guy named Kel.Thanks for that, Danny. The guy took a long time to get there, but his “and/but contrast” claim is valid.
There are so many scriptures that distinguish Jesus as someone other than the One who created heaven and earth… including quotes from Jesus himself. For example…
Proverbs 8:22-29… Yahweh created me as the first of His works… before He made the land or fields, or any of the dust of the earth. I was there when He made the heaven, when He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, when He established the clouds above, when the fountains of the deep gushed forth, when He set a boundary for the sea, so that the waters would not surpass His command, when He marked out the foundations of the earth.
This is Jesus speaking… so who exactly is the “HE” who made the heaven and marked out the foundations of the earth? Clearly someone other than Jesus, right?
Mark 10:5-6… But Jesus told them, “Moses wrote this commandment for you because of your hardness of heart. However, from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’
Again, Jesus is speaking… so who is the “GOD” that made them male and female? Obviously, someone other than Jesus, right? (And as a side note, notice that “GOD” did that from the BEGINNING of creation… not 14 billion years AFTER the beginning of creation – as some of our local members of the cult of Scientism would have you believe.)
Mark 13:19… For those will be days of tribulation unmatched from the beginning of God’s creation until now, and never to be seen again.
Jesus is the speaker, so when he says “God’s creation”, who is the God that Jesus is referring to? Again, it’s clearly someone other than Jesus, right?
Revelation 3:14… And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God…
If Jesus says that he is the beginning of the creation “by God” – who is the “GOD”? Undoubtedly somebody other than Jesus, right?
I could go on and on with verses that clearly and undeniably distinguish Jesus as someone other than our Creator.
So if the construction of Hebrews 1 makes it possible for the author to be saying that either Jesus is the creator or God is the creator… then we must use the other scriptures to help us determine which one is the correct understanding. And in this case, since there are so MANY other scriptures that make it undeniable that Jesus is someone other than the Creator, the decision on which way to understand Heb 1:10 is a very easy one to make.
Mike: “In the beginning, A LIVING BEING THOUGHT TO HAVE POWERS OVER NATURE AND THE AFFAIRS OF MEN created the heaven and the earth.”
LU: Oh look, you are saying that the idea of being in the position of having powers over nature and the affairs of men is what people believe about who or what they associate with the word “god.”
What? They are English words, but that’s where any resemblance to communication ends.
Kathi, is there a living being mentioned anywhere in Gen 1:1? Yes or No?
LU….As I recall scriptures says that God made me in his “IMAGE ” ALSO.
So exactly how does being made in the IMAGE of God, make you a GOD?
Peace and love to you and yours LU…….gene
Hi Berean. Is Christ (which means: anointed one of God) the same God as the God who anointed him?
Hi Mike
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;
and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
John
John.1
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.Hi Mike,
You said:
“So if the construction of Hebrews 1 makes it possible for the author to be saying that either Jesus is the creator or God is the creator… then we must use the other scriptures to help us determine which one is the correct understanding. And in this case, since there are so MANY other scriptures that make it undeniable that Jesus is someone other than the Creator, the decision on which way to understand Heb 1:10 is a very easy one to make.”
I agree.
Gene, you asked:
So exactly how does being made in the IMAGE of God, make you a GOD?
It doesn’t. The Father and Son created man in their image. The creation is not god. That position would belong to the Father and Son who created the creation obviously but thanks for setting up my answer.
Blessings, LU
LU: In Zechariah, Yahweh associates Himself as the one who was poorly valued. In Matthew, we see that Jesus is the “Yahweh” of the story/prophecy…
In an effort to move things along, let’s just say that you are right. What would that prove? Consider…
Deuteronomy 33:13-16… May his land be blessed by Yahweh… with the choice gifts of the land and everything in it, and with the favor of Him who appeared in the burning bush.
Who appeared in the burning bush, Kathi? Yahweh Himself? Or a representative/angel of Yahweh?
Genesis 16:7-13… The angel of Yahweh found Hagar near a spring in the desert… She gave this name to Yahweh who spoke to her: “You are the God who sees me,” for she said, “I have now seen the One who sees me.”
Who appeared to Hagar? Yahweh Himself? Or a representative/angel of Yahweh?
Judges 2:1… Now the angel of Yahweh went up from Gilgal to Bochim and said, “I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land that I had promised to your fathers…
Was this representative/angel of Yahweh really the one who brought them out of Egypt to the land that he promised to give them?
There are many others, but can you understand that representatives of Yahweh are addressed as Yahweh and speak as Yahweh all throughout the scriptures? In which of the three instances I listed above does it mean that the representative/angel of Yahweh actually IS Yahweh Himself?
LU: With all that you said, why would I waste my time trying to find a son named after his father.
It wasn’t a “gotcha” question, Kathi. I was just wondering if there were any scriptural examples other than the one where you CLAIM that a person named Jesus is actually named Yahweh.
I thought I remembered a “Herod the Great” and a “Herod the Lesser” in scripture, but I looked and couldn’t locate it. Must have been a figment of my imagination. Other than that false memory, I can’t remember ever reading about any sons named after their fathers in the entire Bible.
Your “Yahweh the Son” example would be the only one… if his name weren’t actually Jesus, not Yahweh. 😉
Hi LU,
In Deut 10:17 Yahweh is identified as God of gods, and Lord of lords!
Jesus Christ is His Son.
Do you agree?Gene: LU….As I recall scriptures says that God made me in his “IMAGE ” ALSO.
So exactly how does being made in the IMAGE of God, make you a GOD?
That was a great answer to their hit jobs, Gene. It was clear that you were asking if they were trying to make Jesus into an IDOL that represented God… against God’s second commandment.
Using a scripture that said Jesus is the spitting image of his and our God did not address the spirit of what you were asking them. You handled it perfectly. 👍
Hi Berean. You listed a couple of scriptures instead of actually answering my question. I’d prefer if you would just directly answer it.
Mike: Is Christ (which means: anointed one of God) the same God as the God who anointed him?
A simple Yes or No will suffice.
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