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Hi Mike,
This is what I was first addressing in my next post leading up to Proverbs 8.
1 Chronicles 17, “And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: but I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore”
Psalms 89, “I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.”
There was NO SON YET and NO FIRSTBORN YET at the time of king David according to the passages above, so when NT writers were speaking about the man who they knew as the promised son of David who had shed his blood and was resurrected receiving the promised Holy Spirit and was sitting at God’s right hand as they wrote, of course there was only one creation to reference Jesus Christ being the firstborn of to, a new creation, the eternal creation.
Hi Mike,
YOU: Hi Jodi. Your interpretation does not match the words of the text. Let me remove some of the words of the text to show you…
Colossians 1:15, 18… The Son is the firstborn of every creature… And he is the firstborn from among the dead.
The word “AND” makes clear that Jesus is both the firstborn of every creature AND the firstborn from among the dead. Furthermore…
Colossians 1:15-16… The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature, for through him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through him and for him.
Read in light of your understanding: Jesus was appointed as the firstborn of every creature when he was raised from the dead because, thousands of years before he even existed, everything in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, was created through him and for him.
Your interpretation does not stand up to scrutiny.
ME: You are removing words of the text to show me that my interpretation doesn’t match the text? That sounds odd my friend.
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 2: 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
My understanding absolutely holds in the very simple fact of God’s word in Isaiah 46, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Mike, even the HUMAN Jesus of Nazareth being slain as a lamb without spot to pay for our sins was according to God’s foreknowledge (Acts 2). God would have never created through His Spirit of wisdom and the power of foreknowledge the first creation without a plan of redemption. Nothing would have been made that was made without Jesus of Nazareth and God’s plan to anoint him of His Spirit and call him to righteousness and perfect him through suffering on the cross and raise him up as a firstborn of many brethren setting him as an eternal king of kings.
Mike…….There is not one scripture that show’s “any” Activity of Jesus before his birth on this earth.
Jesus was in the “plan” of God , before he ever existed as a “real” living being, just as KING CRYUS was also, he was propheside 200 YEARS BEFORE HE WAS BORN , and even called a servant of God also. The exact same thing applies to Jesus also.
Jodi is exactly right in what she has said IMO.
Peace and love to you and yours Mike…………gene
Gene
THIS IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST LIES YOU CAN TELL AGAIN AND AGAIN…
SO SAD!
AND YET THE BIBLICAL EVIDENCE HAS BEEN PROVIDED, BUT SATAN DOESN’T WANT THE TRUTH TO EXPLORE.
Berean…….It is not my deluded mind saying that , it is scriptures, as both Jodi and i have for years been saying here, you are the product of fallen Christanity, and as long as you hold on to those false assumptions you have been taught most of your life, you will remain blind to the truth of God, just as it says, ….”because they recieved not the love of the truth , God will send unto them a deluding Spirit in order for them to believe A LIE. Berean it’s time you start doing your “own “, search for the truth, not the teaching of your “fallen” church you belong to. Start over Berean! THERE is a group out there preaching the truth, IMO, it is called “the 21st Century Reformation”, it’s on, You tube , check it out, and come back an tell me what you think.
Peace and love to you and yours BEREAN……….gene
Gene,
You believe you have the truth BUT, KNOW THAT YOU ARE PREACHING A BIG LIE ABOUT JESUS ONLY HUMAN.
GOD WILL NEVER APPROVE SUCH A LIE, YOU ARE PLAYING THE DEVIL’S GAME. IT IS FOR YOU TO RECONSIDER WHAT THE TRUTH ABOUT JESUS IS. TIME IS RUNNING DOWN AND JESUS IS COMING SOON, DON’T DELAY.Berean,
When the Son of Man returns in our Father’s glory, I believe it is you that will reject him, thinking he must be an antichrist.
Will you be there when the fruit of David’s loins, according to the flesh, comes to sit on his father David’s throne?
Berean……..It will be the fallen Churches, when they see the power and authority Jesus has, and stripping them of all their “Lies” They have said about him, and their loss of power and control over people, that will anger them, “and they will accuse him of being the Antichrist” . Be careful lest you become one of them, seening you already believe in the anti-christ comming first, that makes you already predesposed to thinking that way even now?
Peace and love to you and yours Berean………gene
.
Jodi
When the Son of Man returns in our Father’s glory, I believe it is you that will reject him, thinking he must be an antichrist.
Will you be there when the fruit of David’s loins, according to the flesh, comes to sit on his father David’s throne?
Me
You are a person deceived by false teaching (like Gene), and you automatically deceive others. How sad, you would have the capacity to do TRUE SERVICE FOR GOD, BUT YOU HERE, YOU DENY OR DO NOT UNDERSTAND SUCH ESSENTIAL POINTS, SO THAT EVERYTHING YOU ADVANCE DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE ENTIRE BIBLICAL TRUTH.
Mike: Hey there Carmel. I’m going to pick just a few of Jesus’ titles out of your long list to discuss…
Bread of God – John 6:33; 50
Christ of God – Luke 9:20
Holy One of God – Mark 1:24
Image of God – 2 Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:15
Lamb of God – John 1:29
Son of God – Luke 1:35
Wisdom of God – 1 Corinthians 1:24
Word of God – Revelation 19:13
All of these contain the phrase “of God”.
What does that phrase mean to you?
Pro Tip: I Replace the TITLE “God” with the NAME “Carmel” in each of those.
ME: I Got it, Mike!
That’s a whole bunch of inane drivel!
If I address your NONSENSICAL point directly and honestly, I will expose myself as NONSENSICAL!
AS SIMPLE AS THAT!
NOW JUST TO REMIND YOU:
NO MORE NONSENSICAL QUESTIONS PLEASE!
NEVERTHELESS! NOW READ AGAIN JESUS’ TITLES THAT YOU SELECTED PLEASE, AND REALIZE
THE DIFFERENCE THERE IS WHEN THINGS ARE APPLIED
ONLY TO GOD???
Bread of God – John 6:33; 50 JESUS, THE MIGHTY GOD, Isaiah 9:6, THE HIGHEST, NOT THE FATHER,GODMAN!
Christ of God – Luke 9:20 JESUS, THE MIGHTY GOD, Isaiah 9:6, THE HIGHEST, NOT THE FATHER,
GODMAN!
Holy One of God – Mark 1:24 JESUS, THE MIGHTY GOD, Isaiah 9:6, THE HIGHEST, NOT THE FATHER,
GODMAN!
Image of God – 2 Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:15
JESUS, THE MIGHTY GOD, Isaiah 9:6, THE HIGHEST, NOT THE FATHER,
GODMAN!
Lamb of God – John 1:29 JESUS, THE MIGHTY GOD, Isaiah 9:6, THE HIGHEST, NOT THE FATHER,
GODMAN!
Son of God – Luke 1:35 JESUS, THE MIGHTY GOD, Isaiah 9:6, THE HIGHEST NOT THE FATHER,
GODMAN!
Wisdom of God – 1 Corinthians 1:24 JESUS, THE MIGHTY GOD, Isaiah 9:6, THE HIGHEST, NOT THE FATHER,
GODMAN!
Word of God – Revelation 19:13 JESUS, THE MIGHTY GOD, Isaiah 9:6, THE HIGHEST, NOT THE FATHER,
GODMAN!
I hope you know NOW the difference there is WHEN THINGS BELONG TO GOD, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT CONCERNS
“THE WORD” OF GOD!
John1:1, IN the beginning, was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, A HUMAN BEING, ATTENTION Mr. MIKE!
NOT OF THIS WORLD!
NOW READ AGAIN MY POST PLEASE AND CHEW:
YOU: Hey there Carmel. I’m going to pick just a few of Jesus’ titles out of your long list to discuss…
Bread of God – John 6:33; 50
Christ of God – Luke 9:20
Holy One of God – Mark 1:24
Image of God – 2 Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:15
Lamb of God – John 1:29
Son of God – Luke 1:35
Wisdom of God – 1 Corinthians 1:24
Word of God – Revelation 19:13
All of these contain the phrase “of God”.
What does that phrase mean to you?
ME: A PHRASE ATTRIBUTED TO THE TITLE OF AN UNFATHOMABLE……..
MIKE ABOVE AT THE END AS YOU CAN SEE, I SIMPLY PUT SOME DOTS, AND I LEFT IT LIKE THAT IN ORDER FOR YOU TO REPLACE IT WITH YOUR PERCEPTION ACCORDINGLY, SINCE ACCORDING TO YOUWHAT APPLIES TO GOD IT IS QUITE ORDINARY, IN FACT, THAT ORDINARY, THAT IT COULD QUITE EASILY BE REPLACED WITH ANYTHING
FROM THIS WORLD
EVEN WITH A MERE NAME ATTRIBUTED TO A HUMAN, I MEAN;
CORRUPTED, MORTAL, SINNER, AND ALL THINGS GOD HAS NOT A SPECK OF, NEVER MIND:
Pro Tip: I Replace the TITLE “God” with the NAME “Carmel” in each of those, ……
SCRIPTURES!Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be,
which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void,but it shall do whatsoever I please,
and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking on them, saith: With men it is impossible; but not with God:
for all things are possible with God.
28And Peter began to say unto him: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee. 29Jesus answering, said:
Amen I say to you, there is no man (“THE WORD”… GOD) who HATH left house or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or children, or lands,
FOR MY SAKE (GODMAN) AND FOR THE GOSPEL,
30Who shall not receive a hundred times as much, now in this time; houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with PERSECUTIONS:
and in the world to come life everlasting. (THE KINGDOM OF THE SON)
31But many that are first, shall be last:/
and the last, first.Mike, I HOPE THAT THROUGH DEEP REFLECTION AND OBVIOUS BY THE TASK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN JESUS, YOU WOULD DISCERN WHAT’S BEHIND IN THE ABOVE STATEMENT IN MARK 10:31 BY JESUS ATTRIBUTED TO THE MYSTERY OF THE UNIQUE HARMONIOUS RELATIONSHIP OF GOD, BETWEEN
THE FATHER AND THE SON!
Scripture:
Hebrews 1:5For to which of the angels hath he said at any time, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith:
And let all the angels of God adore him.
Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me by my Father;
and no one knoweth who the Son is, but the Father;
and who the Father is, but the Son,
and to whom the Son will reveal him.John10:30 I and the Father are one.
John17:1 THESE things Jesus spoke, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said:Father, the hour is come,
glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee.
5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself,
with the glory which I had,
before the world was, with thee.10:And all my things are thine, and thine are mine;
and I am glorified in them.
20 And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me; 21That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee;
that they also may be one in us;
that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, as we also are one:23I in them, and thou in me;
that they may be made perfect in ONE:( Ephesians 4)
and the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Berean,
You say I am deceived by false teachings and I deceive others with those false teachings, just like Gene. Gene and I actually did attend the same Christian denomination where we were taught the same beliefs, we found that out many years ago on this forum, well after we both were no longer associated with that church. We have studied the bible on our own since then and one thing we both discovered was that we were under the false teaching of a pre-existing Jesus. We came out of false teaching, not we have been deceived by false teaching!
When you can’t reply when being asked to explain how certain scriptures align with your beliefs but instead divert or just resort with a response saying we are the deceived and the deceivers, do you realize that doesn’t help your cause of saying you hold the truth, it just makes you look bad and makes your belief appear to not align with the entirety of scripture?
Jodi
All biblical evidence has been given by many here at heavenet.net that Jesus pre-existed, but you and Gene refuse to believe this overriding truth. It’s your choice.
Hi Jodi,
You: We have studied the bible on our own since then and one thing we both discovered was that we were under the false teaching of a pre-existing Jesus.
ME: Luke 2:49 And he said to them: How is it that you sought me? did you not know,
that I must be about my father’s business?
Jodi, according to you, JESUS’REDEMPTION TASK COMMENCED IMMEDIATELY AFTER HIS BAPTISM, WHEN GOD SAID DIRECTLY TO JESUS:
Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
EXPLAIN PLEASE HOW COME JESUS, ACCORDING TO YOU,
ONLY A MERE CHILD OF TWELVE, WITHOUT THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN HIM WITHOUT MEASURE,
ANTICIPATED GOD AND REFERRED TO HIM AS HIS FATHER, AND ALSO THAT TO HIS MOTHER AND HIS BIOLOGICAL FATHER, ALWAYS ACCORDING TO YOU, HE SAID:
How is it that you sought me?
did you not know,
that I must be about my father’s BUSINESS?
WHAT DOES THE ABOVE STATEMENT REVEAL ABOUT THE REDEMPTION TASK BETWEEN
GOD AND JESUS!
I AM WAITING FOR YOUR VIEWS PLEASE!
Hi Berean,
You say evidence, we say faulty interpretation of scripture that makes Jesus into a false image, literally making him into the image of antichrist and also those passages make other passages lies. Your interpretations create contradictions, they cause confusion and you constantly divert from giving any sort of explanation. If your interpretations were true the result is a bible that is not at all reliable.
Hi Mike,
YOU concerning Proverbs 8:22: “Does it make sense that God “created” the “Spirit of Wisdom” in the beginning – as if it didn’t already exist?”.
ME: If that was what the text was actually saying the answer would be no, as that does not make any sense, but that is not what the text is actually saying at all.
Mike, the wisdom of God that exists in His creation is constantly being revealed unto man is it not? Do we not study the heavens and the earth where therein we discover the wisdom that God created? When was that wisdom created? When God prepared the heavens and the earth is when!
From atoms, to cells, to looking at entire eco systems, we see creations of God’s wisdom. God prepared the heavens and earth and all therein, His wisdom was being created a million times over, all for us to discover. Man himself was prepared with the ability to obtain wisdom and God also prepared and thus created, the exact wisdom He wanted us to obtain that would be a tree of life unto us. Why we are told that God had promised us eternal life before the world was, why God promises us His Spirit that will cause us to walk in all His ways.
God is wise and therein He has created all sorts of wisdom for us to obtain.
Read and look at the text of the chapter,
1 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.
4 Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.
5 O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.
6 Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.
7 For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
11 For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.
13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
Jesus is not the “me” he is one of the kings
Jesus was the promised Son of Man to come who God would anoint with His Spirit of Wisdom. He was the promised son of David to come where God would make him an eternal king, where by God’s Spirit dwelling in him he would reign with wisdom and righteousness.
17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
Isaiah 11: 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Jesus, is not the “me” nor is he the “I” in Proverbs 8, he is one who is led by the “I”.
22 The LORD created me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.
Jesus is not the “my” the “me” or the “I”, he is The Son of Man who heard the Spirit of Wisdom and followed that Spirit without fail. Jesus of Nazareth received the Spirit of Wisdom of YHVH and “now you know the rest of the story” as Paul Harvey would say, as you know that he was resurrected unto life eternal. The Spirit that came to dwell in Jesus at the river Jordan, a prophecy fulfilled, was truly unto him a tree of life!!
Nicely explained by sis Jodi on Proverbs 8. Yes the Hebrew Bible states that it’s Messiah is not a preexisting one but rather a future Messiah and even till date it is also being claimed by its owners
Jodi
John.8 KJBible
[58] Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.What does your Bible say?
Hi Berean,
I was waiting for this one!
I have started a chart that I have titled The Pre-existence Debate and of course John 8 is on there. I am hoping to share it soon and as debate continues I can always add to it. We all just keep going around in circles and I think this will stop that where I have hopes that people will finally give explanations to scriptures that I see are being ignored.
Until then, I will once again speak to John 8:58. Follow the alignment of the highlights and respond appropriately for once.
Let’s back up a bit to what we read prior to verse 58, there is a lot to gain from this entire chapter and where it aligns with other scriptures, but at this time I am only going to highlight a few things.
John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I AM the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I AM not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM he, ye shall die in your sins.
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;.. which would be Isaiah’s prophecy, 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I AM he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
WHO DID GOD SEND? The anointed Jesus of Nazareth, that is WHO! Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone (Isaiah 42, hold thine hand and keep thee, I Chronicles 17, my mercy I will not take from thee); for I do always those things that please him.
Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
JOHN 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
What day was that? The same day David saw!!
Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
THE DAY THAT THE ANOINTED JESUS OF NAZARETH WAS RESURRECTED UNTO ETERNAL LIFE.
NOW READ,
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
Berean, THE TRUTH DOES NOT EXIST FROM SNIPPETS OF SCRIPTURE HERE AND THERE, THAT IS THE WORK OF DECEIT,VANITY, FOOLISHNESS.
You must take in and absorb many many scriptures and there you will find that THEY ALL ALIGN so beautifully and give truth.
God’s promise before the world began, in other words, His WORD before the world began, was eternal life unto human beings. From the beginning by God’s foreknowledge the man Jesus of Nazareth would be slain, dying for our sins and be resurrected unto eternal life becoming a firstborn of many brethren. BEFORE the great father Abraham even existed this was true. Before David existed this was true.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Go back and read all the scriptures in THIS chapter I listed where Jesus said “I AM”, you really don’t want to apply those Berean and where they directly apply to other scriptures??? FOOLISHNESS, your doctrine is deceitful snippets, created way back, when Constantine established a false Christian church from pagan converts who applied their pagan beliefs to our lord Jesus Christ instead of applying God’s word from the OT. Verse 58 ALL RELATES TO A HUMAN BEING OF PROPHECY, THAT WHICH IS ALSO THE WORD OF GOD BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I AM the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Before Abraham was, the resurrection starting with Jesus of Nazareth was declared, it was declared even before the world was.
Hi Berean,
In relation to your interpretation of John 8:58
You pretend like prophecy does not exist. You pretend that the human Jesus of Nazareth is not God’s word fulfilled. You pretend that God didn’t make certain declarations before the world was.
That is DECEIT or one who is just blind under false teaching.
Then you completely and purposely ignore, don’t you?, that “I AM” represents PRESENT TENSE unto a man anointed with the Spirit, the very man where God’s word before the world began was to be fulfilled concerning the firstborn unto a resurrection of eternal life.
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