The Trinity Doctrine

[Proclaimer]

Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “’Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

[GeneBalthrop]

To all……..The false teaching of the Trinity  makes an “image” into the thing it is “imaging”  ,   Like Proclaimer said,  you can have a person that’s a spit image of you, but it can never “be” you.  All mankind is made in the “image” of God the Father  but which one of us “is” God  the Father?  ,  that is the sin of the TRINITY DOCTRINE.  It takes the “image” of something and turns it into the thing it’s imaging, making them the very same thing.  That’s a total “LIE” . THATS what Satan want’s you to believe in, his “LIE” about Jesus, which is nearly what “ALL” Christianity teaches.  This false teaching takes an “image of God,  the “man” Jesus Christ, who is now sitting in the temple of God, and causes people to worships him as their God, causing them to commit “IDOLATRY” .

There is ‘no” actual,  “man of sin”,   it is the False “image” of Jesus being a God, that changes our concept of him , and makes him appear as the “man of sin” why, because it brakes the Commandments of God,  “you shall have no other God besides me”.   All who do that are “IDOLATERS” .

2 THS 2,   It’s all there for those who have eyes to see. 

peace and love to you all and yours……….gene

 

[Danny Dabbs]

@t8

Hi Proclaimer,

It’s time to stop the false accusations against Trinitarians.
Trinitarians do believe that Jesus Christ is the only-begotten Son of God.
Here is a quote from the Nicene Creed as adopted in 325:
“And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance (ὁμοούσιον) with the Father; by whom all things were made both in heaven and on earth; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man; he suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.”

By the way, you are saying the same thing that Jesus is of the same essence as the Father.
Are you sure that you are not a Trinitarian?

[Proclaimer]

@dannyd

It’s time to stop the false accusations against Trinitarians.

Please give me one quote so I know what you are talking about exactly. If not, then I’ll ignore your post and carry on. Thanks.

It says in scripture to tell your brother his fault and if he listens to you, then you have gained a brother.

Let’s do this the right way.

[Danny Dabbs]

@t8

Oh, don’t play dumb!
You are always saying that Jesus is not God, he is the Son of God.
But Trinitarians do believe that Jesus Christ is the only-begotten Son of God.
You can read it again.
Here is a quote from the Nicene Creed as adopted in 325:
“And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance (ὁμοούσιον) with the Father; by whom all things were made both in heaven and on earth; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man; he suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.”

I will leave your forum because of your dishonesty.

[Lightenup]

Danny, please don’t leave. We need you here because of people like proclaimer that wants to pretend that Jesus is not his God along with the Father in one post and in another post he admits that, in a sense, Jesus is God of him because Jesus is his head. Proclaimer cannot accept the interdependence of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit for some reason.

LU

[Proclaimer]

@dannyd

Oh, don’t play dumb!
You are always saying that Jesus is not God, he is the Son of God.
But Trinitarians do believe that Jesus Christ is the only-begotten Son of God.
You can read it again.

Not playing dumb. Now that you have spelled it out, I can reply. Simple.

If Jesus is God, then Jesus has a Son. Because God has a Son.

There you go. Yes, they confess Jesus is the Son of God, but believe in a doctrine that denies his sonship by elevating him to be the God that he is suppose to be the Son of.

Do you see that?

I am not saying that Trinitarians are antichrist, but that they embrace a doctrine that is. The reality is that God is telling his people to come out of Babylon. Babylon is the mother of false religion. The more subtle thing about this is the fact that God is telling HIS people to come out of her. I never denied such people do not belong to God.

Please to your due diligence when reading my posts next time.

Thank you.

[Berean]

Hi Proclaimer

The case of the Trinity is one thing, but you do not differentiate between the Trinity and the truth about God and his begotten only Son.
There is only one true God the Father who has always existed, his nature and substance is uncreated, infinite and eternal, and he is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent And the Son who was born of HIM IS OF THIS SAME SUBSTANCE THAT HIS FATHER THIS IS WHY PAUL SAYS THATH THE SON IS THE REFLECTION OF GOD’S GLORY AND THE EVEN FOOTPRINT OF HIS PERSON.

FOR YOU IT IS TO BE BINITARIAN, WHILE IT IS NOT.

THE SON HAS INHERITED THE NATURE OF THE FATHER AND THIS IS NOT BINITARIANISM.

WHEN I SAY INHERIT THE NATURE OF THE FATHER, I INCLUDE THE SPIRITUAL CHARACTER BUT ALSO THE DIVINE ATTRIBUTES OF THE FATHER WHICH ARE OMNIPOTENCE, OMNISCIENCE AND OMNIPRESENCE.

YOU DO NOT ACCEPT IT, AND YET IT’S A NATURAL LOGIC AND I AM AMAZED THAT YOU DON’T SEE THIS.

[Proclaimer]

Talking about due diligence, I now have to ask you Berean to please be more careful in future. I am sorry to say this but it is true and has to be said, your above post is full of mistruths about what I believe.

There is not one fact or truth about my belief in your post. In fact it is so inaccurate that I do not know where to begin to address it all. So I leave you with my creed if I can call it that, below for you. I’ll make it simple so you have no excuses in future and will not misquote me or bear false witness.

For me there is one God the Father, and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the Son (offspring) of God, the messiah, and the Word of God that was WITH God. He existed in the form of God (divine nature), emptied himself, came as a man (flesh), obeyed God, died for our sins, rose from the dead, and is now in the glory he had with God before the universe even existed. I have repeated this too many times to count, yet people still get me wrong. I think people actually do not read properly.

How is it that so many get it wrong? It’s kind of hilarious to be honest how silly some of the posts people make here sometimes. I personally think that Christians should know better though. We should be better than those in the world because we are suppose to have the light. But the lack of understanding is at times just shameful.

[Berean]

Proclaimer

There is not one fact or truth about my belief in your post. In fact it is so inaccurate that I do not know where to begin to address it all.  

Me

You don’t know the truth of the Son WHO IS EVERYTHING THE FATHER IS. THIS TRUTH DOES NOT MAKE TRINITY OR BINITY.
ONE DAY MAY BE, YOU WILL SEE THIS.

[GeneBalthrop]

Berean……You saying, Jesus is the same the Father is, is a LIE.  Jesus  said this,  he could do “nothing” of himself, saying,  “the son of man can do nothing of himself”.  But told us also , that “all things are possible with God”.

In fact Jesus even said “we”  could do greater works then he did.

What interesting to me is how you people say you actually believe Jesus, and yet deny almost everything he said.   All the while accusing others of lying,  even though we quotes,  the actual words as written in our scriptures.

Again Berean,  who is your “FIRST” LOVE,  let me show you who Jesus’ “FIRST LOVE IS.   Matt 22: 27  ……JESUS said unto him , you shall love the Lord your God with “ALL” your heart, and “All” your soul, and with “ALL” your mind”.  Jesus’ “FIRST’ LOVE is and Was always God the Father.

Now tell me do you actually believe Jesus?  Who is your “first” love?   Rev 2:4

peace and love to you and yours ………..gene

 

 

 

 

[carmel]

Hi Proclaimer,

You: If Jesus is God, then Jesus has a Son. Because God has a Son.

By the light of the Holy Spirit, allow me in full humility to clarify things for you and for all those who are searching the truth!

Scripture:

Hebrews 2:13 And again: I will put my trust in him. And again:

Behold I and MY CHILDREN, whom God hath given me.

The above is a clear assertion that

JESUS IS BOTH A FATHER AND ALSO HAS CHILDREN! John20:17

Notice: …….whom GOD HAS GIVEN ME!  present perfect,  an event that happened in the past that has present consequences.

Thus in the above, God ALWAYS and ETERNAL SPIRIT, well in the past, before creation, GAVE JESUS, HIS SON, HIS CHILDREN! Why Jesus’ children and not the Father’s children, obvious, isn’t it the kingdom of the Son, after all, it’s not the kingdom of the Father, nevertheless, it’s still the kingdom of the FATHER, and still the kingdom of God, but in relation to Jesus, GOD THE SON. the fact that’s ALL IN HIM….Simply as only through Jesus, THE SON, God could POSSESS His own GENUINE children.

Why only through Jesus, God the Son, could God the Father have children, and not directly? Isn’t it obvious since only the Son that WAS/IS ETERNALLY PHYSICALLY IN THE FLESH, THE FIRST-EVER EMBODIMENT OF GOD, “THE WORD” made flesh, for the first-ever time in one glory with the Father even before the world was, John17:5 Thus the Father possessed His unique physical body only IN HIS SON, well hinted out in

Philippians 2:5 For let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

 6Who being in the form of God, (the embodiment of God)

thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 

7But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man. 

Thus God the Father asked Jesus God the  Son, to empty Himself of His EMBODIMENT and EQUALITY with God, and became precisely the entire kingdom of God all in Himself, hence

ALL CHILDREN OF GOD THE SON, no matter whom and what, and IN/BY/FOR Him

ALL CHILDREN OF GOD THE FATHER, well clear in

John15:I AM the true vine; and MY FATHER IS THE HUSBANDMAN.4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine, so neither can you, unless YOU ABIDE IN ME. 5I am the vine; you the branches: he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit:

for without Me you can do nothing. 

Also in Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable. 21Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God, or given thanks;…..

And in 2 Corinthians 5:19 For God indeed was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not imputing to them their sins; and he hath placed in us the word of reconciliation.

Now let’s read Genesis 1:26 And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness:….

As clear as crystal:

Let us make man to our image and likeness:….

Got it, Proclaimer? Jesus emptied Himself and became

THE MAN, HUMAN IN THE IMAGE OF GOD AND LIKENESS, IN FLESH!

Proclaimer Jesus Christ right now is

in possession of His Son,

NOT JUST ISRAEL, since they rejected Him, Well asserted in

Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith to them: Have you never read in the Scriptures: The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? By the Lord this has been done; and it is wonderful in our eyes.

43Therefore I say to you, that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof. 44And whosoever shall fall on this stone, shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it shall grind him to powder.

45And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they knew that he spoke of them. 46And seeking to lay hands on him, they feared the multitudes: because they held him as a prophet.

BUT,  JESUS IS IN POSSESSION OF THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE UNIFIED ONE SUBSTANCE ALL IN HIM AS

ONE  CHILD OF GOD,

GLORIFIED IN THE FLESH, ALL IN

“THE WORD” MADE FLESH

JESUS CHRIST!

GODMAN!

ORIGINALLY POSSESSED BY JESUS BEFORE THE WORLD WAS  well clear in both epistles HEREUNDER:

1John5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 

6This is he that came by water and blood,  Jesus Christ:

not by water only, but by water and blood.

(SPIRIT and FLESH) 

And it is the Spirit which testifieth, that Christ is the truth. (TANGIBLE)

1John 3:1 Behold what manner of charity the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called, and should be the sons of God. Therefore the world knoweth not us, because it knew not him. 2Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know, that, when he shall appear, we shall be like to him:

because we shall see him as HE IS. (FROM ETERNITY)

ETERNALLY ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE FATHER!

Also in 1Peter 1:3Blessed be THE God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4Unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that can not fade, reserved in heaven for you, 5Who, by the power of God, are kept by faith unto salvation, ready to be revealed in the last time.

NOTICE; THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE INHERITED 

JESUS’BODY, “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, HENCE, HIS CHILDREN, ORIGINALLY IN JESUS, THEIR FATHER, WHO EMPTIED HIMSELF  FROM HIS FORM OF GOD,

BOTH A SON TO THE FATHER and

A FATHER TO HIS CHILDREN, 

John14:9...Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, Shew us the Father? 10Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, IS THE KINGDOM OF THE SON, IS THE EMBODIMENT OF GOD IS

THE KINGDOM OF GOD  

On the last day of the Lord Jesus Christ when

GOD WOULD BE ALL IN ALL.

ASSERTED BY JESUS IN

John17:5And NOW GLORIFY thou me, (“THE WORD” MADE FLESH ) 

O Father, (THIS TIME ON EARTH AS A  HUMAN GLORIFIED IN FLESH) 

with thyself, (SPIRIT, IN THE HOLY GHOST)

with the glory which I had, (AS GOD’S  EMBODIMENT,)

before the world was, with thee.

John20:17 Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me, for I am not yet ascended to (THE GLORY OF) my (PARTICULAR DIVINE/HUMAN ) Father. But go to my brethren, and say to them:

I ascend to my (OWN PARTICULAR DIVINE) Father and to your(OWN PARTICULAR HUMAN) Father, to my (OWN PARTICULAR DIVINE)  God and your (OWN PARTICULAR HUMAN) God. 

 

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

[Danny Dabbs]

@t8

Proclaimer,

You said:

If Jesus is God, then Jesus has a Son. Because God has a Son.

That’s your typical word game.
Let’s apply your logic.
God calls His Son “O God” in Hebrews 1:8.
So according to your logic God calls His Son “O Myself” in Hebrews 1:8.

Do you see how absurd that is?
Your game doesn’t work, Proclaimer.

[Proclaimer]

@dannyd

But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.”

Let’s go back a bit to this verse to get some context:

“And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,”

So we can establish that God is speaking. He then speaks about angels:

“In speaking of the angels he says,”

He then talks about the Son:

“But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever’;”

So it does seem that God calls the Son, God. But is this really the case?

The truth of the matter is this. The Greek grammar here allows for differing translations. Even Trinitarian scholars like Dr. A. T. Robertson, B. F. Westcott, and Dr. William Barclay admit that ‘God is your throne’ or ‘Your throne is God’ is also grammatically correct. Other scholars that have this view include Dr. James Moffatt, Edgar Goodspeed, and Dr. C. F. D. Moule. We also see for this reason, the RSV translating Psalm 45:6 as “Your divine throne endures forever and ever.” The NRSV footnote for Psalm 45:6 reads, “Your throne is a throne of God” and the Hebrews 1:8 footnote reads, “God is your throne.” Other translations include this wording too.

Viewing Hebrews 1:8 as God calling the Son as God opens up another serious problem too when we read the following verse:

9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy.”

First thing to note is that according to this, the Son has a God:

‘therefore God, Your God’

Wouldn’t it be problematic if God has a God? Just to be clear. If Jesus has a God and Jesus is God, then God has a God. So does this scripture really teach that Jesus is God and by extension, God has a God?

The answer is no if we interpret Hebrews 1:8 as ‘God is your throne’ or ‘Your throne is God’. It then it concurs with the rest of scripture too, such as these verses:

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

1 Timothy 1:17
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

[Proclaimer]

You don’t know the truth of the Son WHO IS EVERYTHING THE FATHER IS. THIS TRUTH DOES NOT MAKE TRINITY OR BINITY.
ONE DAY MAY BE, YOU WILL SEE THIS.

Okay if he is everything, then is he the Father? Did he have a Son?

See, the Son is a different person to God.

But yes, he is the exact IMAGE of God.

So that means he is NOT God which also means that he is not God.

God is his Father.

Jesus said, Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, `I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.

He is the SON OF GOD.

[Berean]

Proclaimer

I was speaking Of The “nature” of Christ.

 

[Danny Dabbs]

@t8

Hi Proclaimer,

I want to apologize for being harsh on you.
I’m sorry.
At the moment I’m not sure what’s biblical –
Trinitarianism, Binitarianism or Unitarianism?
I cannot tell. Sorry for my back and forth.
I have to pray and study until I’m sure.
That’s why I will take a long break and only comment again
when I’m 100% sure.

So long!
God bless,

Danny

[gadam123]

I’m sorry.
At the moment I’m not sure what’s biblical –
Trinitarianism, Binitarianism or Unitarianism?
I cannot tell. Sorry for my back and forth.
I have to pray and study until I’m sure.
That’s why I will take a long break and only comment again
when I’m 100% sure.

Hi Danny no prayer and break can resolve this unending debate on God and Jesus as the NT writers made it so much complicated.

Don’t worry please take it lightly as you are not going to loose anything here if you are not agreeing to others views as no one is perfect in this world of ours.

[Proclaimer]

No problem Danny.

My advice is to not sign up for any man-made doctrine that tries to explain what is in scripture, but to believe the scripture first.

Doctrine will come from that but after some time. The points you believe will form a picture after a while.

Too many times, people who know little get filled with other people’s ideas and then find it hard to shake those ideas off when they read scripture that contradicts what they were taught.

Be honest, transparent, and do not sign up for any denomination. Let the Spirit of God lead you, not men.

[Proclaimer]

I was speaking Of The “nature” of Christ.

I thought we established that he has divine nature. That he was begotten of God. That he is the offspring of God.

So that means he is not The God, but he is theos in nature.

Similarly, Eve is not Adam or The Adam, but is adam meaning she is man or mankind. Remember that God made man, male and female. And adam is the word for man.

So Eve is not The Adam but is adam. The Son is not The Theos, but is theos. In nature, Jesus Christ is theos or divine and Eve is man or flesh.

This is what the scriptures teach us.

[Author]

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