The Trinity Doctrine

[KangarooJack]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 28 2010,10:02)

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 28 2010,09:41) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 28 2010,09:24) Hi TT, Many men thought they saw or spoke with God when they met with his spirits[angels] Are you saying that Jacob was wrong? So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” Genesis 32:30 Are you saying that spirits could take human form and not God who is also a spirit? Are you saying that spirits have more power than God? thinker Hi thethinker: God may be seen through the works that HE does, but He himself is invisible, and so, as Jesus has said “He who has seen me has seen the Father”.  How have we seen the Father when we have seen Jesus?  It is through the works of obedience to God's Word that we have seen the Father. And so, others may have seen God through the works that He did in the OT as well, but: Quote Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, [fn] who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared [Him]. Quote Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,

Jacob was told that he wrestled with God. Jacob replied saying, “I have seen God face to face.”

24 Then Jacob was left alone; and a Man wrestled with him until the breaking of day.
25 Now when He saw that He did not prevail against him, He touched the socket of his hip; and the socket of Jacob’s hip was out of joint as He wrestled with him.
26 And He said, “Let Me go, for the day breaks.”
But he said, “I will not let You go unless You bless me!”
27 So He said to him, “What is your name?”
He said, “Jacob.”
28 And He said, “Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel; for you have struggled with God and with men, and have prevailed.”
29 Then Jacob asked, saying, “Tell me Your name, I pray.”
And He said, “Why is it that you ask about My name?” And He blessed him there.
30 So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”

You deny what the narrative says because you deny that God can become a man. The man with whom Jacob wrestled  was God Himself in human form. Your argument is wholly presuppositional and is without any basis in exegesis.

thinker

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 28 2010,09:15)

Quote (Gene @ Jan. 27 2010,16:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 28 2010,08:38) Quote (Gene @ Jan. 27 2010,15:40) WJ and thinker………..So if GOD were to tell you to die and shed you own blood for Him for the sins of Humanity and you were to do that, out of FAITH in HIM,  then God is totally Free of any responsibility for that sacrifice> And it would be you along responsible. Now that is NONSENSE Thinking if i ever heard it. GOD was totally right in say it was HIS BLOOD that Paid the sin debt for (HIS) CREATION because Jesus GAVE GOD THE FATHER HIS LIEFS BLOOD>  Jesus himself (DID NOT WANT TO DIE) as scripture (PLAINLY) Says. IT  WAS GOD WILL THAT HE DIE AND THEREFORE IT WAS GOD'S BLOOD OFFERING THAT WAS POURED OUT, AND JESUS WAS HIS LAMB OFFERING. That is what is meant in others scriptures as having someones blood on you hands. it means you are responsible for their death.  AS scripture (PLAINLY) say you and thinker need to quite twisting scriptures to push you TRIUNE GOD THEOLOGY'S. “No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and **I have power to take it again**. This commandment have I received of my Father“. John 10:18 WJ WJ………He did GIVE HIMSELF TO GOD THE FATHER TOTALLY, He did not have to but he did. That does not change what i was saying about Him  being GOD”S sacrifice and His blood was ON GOD'S Hands because it was GOD the FATHER that POURED HIM OUT FOR OUR SINS. Jesus gave himself (TOTALLY) to GOD, and done GOD'S WILL NOT HIS WILL< can't you understand even that. Come on WJ surely you understand at least that brother. DO you honestly think Jesus wanted to die. If so why did he sweat drops like blood for and ask the Father is he would remove the cup from him.  Jesus is and was not GOD because GOD can not die, if He ever did the whole creation would cease to exist. Gene Your point about Jesus sweating blood and willingly dying is proof that his blood and life was his and not the Fathers that he gave. The Father did not take 39 stripes and go through the beating so that his visage could not be made out and then carry “HIS” cross and shed “HIS” blood and hang on the cross for 6 hours! Why can you not see that? Is it because you cannot accept the clear teaching of the scripture in Acts 20:28? Jesus “Had the Power to lay down his life and he had the power to take it again”. He had that power! WJ

WJ………Jesus did the (WILL) of the FATHER (ONLY) (NOT HIS WILL, what don't you understand about that. If it was Jesus' will being done he would have not done it. The Spirit of the FATHER (IN) HIM gave HIM the ABILITY to endure and do the (FATHERS) WILL. Jesus was GOD the FATHERS LAMB  SACRIFICE FOR the SINS of the WHOLE WORLD> Jesus put himself to death in (OBEDIENCE) to the WILL of The FATHER, Because of what was sit before HIM by the FATHER as scripture says < HIS obedience Brought him both GLORY and HONOR  now and for ever more. Jesus did (NOT) do it because he was a GOD and you present it.

Heb 2:9….> But we see Jesus who was made a little lower than the angles for the suffering of (DEATH), crowned with Glory and honor, that by the (GRACE OF GOD) should taste (DEATH) FOR (EVERY) MAN.  

1 Pe 1:21 Who by Him (Jesus) we do believe in GOD (the FATHER), that raised Him(JESUS) from the (DEAD), and (GAVE) Him (GLORY); that your Faith and Hope might be in GOD (the FATHER)

Now Wj by who's (GRACE) HIS or GOD the FATHERS.  The trinitarian teachings screws up this whole understanding WJ>
It was GOD the FATHER (IN) CHRIST Reconciling the WHOLE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF. Jesus was GOD The FATHERS offering for our sin and not ours only but the sins of the whole world. IMO

peace and love……………..gene

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 28 2010,08:27)

JA Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,07:45) Jesus had ADAMS blood – that makes Him Human The bloodline comes through the Father, Jesus had no natural Father, and so your conclusion is false! Blessings WJ

Hi WJ,

Yes; that is the point. WE can agree.

Ed J

[JustAskin]

WJ,

Just a passing point:

A single verse cannot qualify itself.
Is there another reference to “Church of God” anywhere in the Scriptures – or in legitimate other external documentation that may explain the seemingly spuriuos term.
(I mean – sure, anyone can see that it is out of context with anything said before, after or anywhere else in scripture and in anycase it was Jesus 'Church')

Find me a qualifer – You are the Scholar – I am a complete novice!

[KangarooJack]

Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 29 2010,01:50)

WJ, Just a passing point: A single verse cannot qualify itself. Is there another reference to “Church of God” anywhere in the Scriptures – or in legitimate other external documentation that may explain the seemingly spuriuos term. (I mean – sure, anyone can see that it is out of context with anything said before, after or anywhere else in scripture and in anycase it was Jesus 'Church') Find me a qualifer – You are the Scholar – I am a complete novice!

JA,

All you had to do is get out your Concordance.

…but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 1 Timothy 3:15

There is nothing wrong with being novice. But there is no excuse for being lazy.

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
Where in your concordance is a trinity god?
Have you been lazy on this matter?

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 29 2010,04:36)

Hi TT, Where in your concordance is a trinity god? Have you been lazy on this matter?

Nick,

Dung remark!

thinker

[JustAskin]

TT,

1 Timothy 3:15: “Church of God”…

Inspite of what I said before about you, you have triumphed over me this time. I am corrected. There is indeed a qualifying verse.

“The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes. …” p.s. This applies to ALL OF US…
I have no Concordance…

[JustAskin]

WJ,

About Quip: Touché.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 29 2010,05:33)

TT, 1 Timothy 3:15: “Church of God”… Inspite of what I said before about you, you have triumphed over me this time. I am corrected. There is indeed a qualifying verse. “The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes. …” p.s. This applies to ALL OF US… I have no Concordance…

JA,

I'll make an effort not to be so harsh with you.

thinker

[JustAskin]

TT,

Welcome back.

And thank you.

[NickHassan]

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 29 2010,05:21)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 29 2010,04:36) Hi TT, Where in your concordance is a trinity god? Have you been lazy on this matter? Nick, Dung remark! thinker

Hi TT,
Why do you ignore the elephant in the room?
There is no scriptural trinity.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene @ Jan. 27 2010,20:30)

Now Wj by who's (GRACE) HIS or GOD the FATHERS.  The trinitarian teachings screws up this whole understanding WJ> It was GOD the FATHER (IN) CHRIST Reconciling the WHOLE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF. Jesus was GOD The FATHERS offering for our sin and not ours only but the sins of the whole world. IMO peace and love……………..gene

Gene

As usual you are looking at only one side of the coin. IMO.

For the law was given by Moses, but “grace and truth came by Jesus Christ“. John 1:17

Who did Grace and Truth come from?

But we believe that through “the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ” we shall be saved, even as they. Acts 15:11

Whos grace are we saved by Gene?

We are not saying that Jesus is independent of the Father or the Spirit.

What we are saying is that they are One. But you do not want to give Jesus credit when the scriptures speak of him in terms of being God or equal to the Father!

Like acts 20:28.

To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace “from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ“. Rom 1:7

When you read this scripture all you see is Grace and Peace comes from God the Father.

Trinitarians see that Grace and Peace comes from the Father and Jesus.

Meaning “Equally” the Father and Son gives us peace and grace!

Scriptures clearly teach that Jesus has all things and that all authority and power is in his hands and that he sits at the Fathers right hand, not above him, nor beneath him but at his right hand and the Father at his left hand!

But you only choose to make the Father greater when the scriptures show clearly Jesus is equal!

You are looking at Jesus in the days of his flesh! Trinitarians are looking at Jesus fully exalted and having all things!

According to John 5:23, we are giving him the same honor that we give the Father!

If all things has been given to him then that makes him “equal” to the infinite God!

You do not believe that makes him God, Trinitarians do and the scriptures call him just that!

Blessings WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 28 2010,13:38)

WJ, About Quip: Touché.

Good for you!

I thank you and appreciate and your honesty!

Blessings WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Did you not realise that God is the source and grace comes to us through Jesus Christ.
You really need to find WHO God is and learn of His Son.

Pathetic word games do not cover for the elephant in the room-there is no trinity in scripture.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 27 2010,20:52)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 28 2010,08:27) JA Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,07:45) Jesus had ADAMS blood – that makes Him Human The bloodline comes through the Father, Jesus had no natural Father, and so your conclusion is false! Blessings WJ Hi WJ, Yes; that is the point. WE can agree. Ed J

Ed

Thanks!

WJ

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 29 2010,06:04)

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 29 2010,05:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 29 2010,04:36) Hi TT, Where in your concordance is a trinity god? Have you been lazy on this matter? Nick, Dung remark! thinker Hi TT, Why do you ignore the elephant in the room? There is no scriptural trinity.

I did not make up the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It was Jesus who said to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Take your beef to Jesus.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

WorshippingJesus said to gene:

Quote

You are looking at Jesus in the days of his flesh! Trinitarians are looking at Jesus fully exalted and having all things!

AMEN BROTHER!

Anti-trinitarians do not tell the WHOLE truth about Jesus. In a court of law this is called “pergury.”

thinker

[NickHassan]

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 29 2010,07:02)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 29 2010,06:04) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 29 2010,05:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 29 2010,04:36) Hi TT, Where in your concordance is a trinity god? Have you been lazy on this matter? Nick, Dung remark! thinker Hi TT, Why do you ignore the elephant in the room? There is no scriptural trinity. I did not make up the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It was Jesus who said to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Take your beef to Jesus. thinker

Hi TT,
You think all the apostles disobeyed him or have you got the wrong end of the stick?

How would that define a trinity anyway?

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 29 2010,06:51)

Hi WJ, Did you not realise that God is the source and grace comes to us through Jesus Christ. You really need to find WHO God is and learn of His Son. Pathetic word games do not cover for the elephant in the room-there is no trinity in scripture.

Nick,

The pathtic word games belong to you. The word “through” may also mean “by cause of.” Earlier you said that the word “to rise” may have several meanings. So does the word “through.”

“Grace and truth came by cause of Jesus Christ.”

Jesus Christ has become the SOURCE of eternal salvation (Hebrews 5:9).

and,

“Who BY HIMSELF purged our sins….” Hebrews 1:3

or,

“Who FROM HIMSELF purged our sins….”

Tell the WHOLE truth Nick. A half truth is a lie!

thinker

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