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JA
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,07:45) Well, WJ is actual correct in what he says:
Thanks!Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,07:45)
It WAS Jesus' blood that redeemed us.
Agreed!Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,07:45) Jesus had ADAMS blood – that makes Him Human – not God!
The bloodline comes through the Father, Jesus had no natural Father, and so your conclusion is false!
His humanity (Flesh) came from Mary, his Divinity (Spirit) is the Word that was with God and was God who came in the likeness of sinful flesh! Phil 2:6-8Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,07:45) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed “the church of God, which **HE (God, Jesus) HATH PURCHASED WITH HIS OWN BLOOD**”. Acts 20:28
This is just a Scriptural quote. “Church of God” is a translation error and should read “Church of the Lord”. Quite obvious really – There is no such thing as the “Church of God” – It was Jesus who established the Church.
Wrong again. You put your foot in your own mouth. First of all the word “Theos” God is found in the ancient manuscripts.
AT Robertson the world renowned Greek grammarian says…The church of God (thn ekklhsian tou qeou [Theos]). The correct text, “not “the church of the Lord” or “the church of the Lord and God” (Robertson, Introduction to Textual Criticism of the N.T., p. 189). He purchased (periepoihsato). First aorist middle of peripoiew, old verb to reserve, to preserve (for or by oneself, in the middle). In the N.T. only in Luke John 17:33 ; Acts 20:28 ; 1 Timothy 3:13 . The substantive peripoihsin (preservation, possession) occurs in 1 Peter 2:9 (“a peculiar people” = a people for a possession) and in Ephesians 1:14 . With his own blood (dia tou aimato tou idiou). “Through the agency of (dia) his own blood. Whose blood? If tou qeou (God) (Aleph B Vulg.) is correct, as it is, then Jesus is here called “God” who shed his own blood for the flock. It will not do to say that Paul did not call Jesus God, for we have Romans 9:5 ; Colossians 2:9 ; Titus 2:13 where he does that very thing, besides Colossians 1:15-20 ; Philippians 2:5-11 .”
So the Church of God is the Church that Jesus builds, and he is the one who inhabits it for it is his Church.
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock “I will build my church”; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matt 16:18
Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to “the church of God”: 1 Cor 10:32
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,07:45) The “Church” is to Jesus what the “Temple” is to God.
The Church is the “Body” of Jesus who is the head and he fills that body which is the Temple of God!Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,07:45) Quote
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: “FOR THOU (Jesus) WAST SLAIN, AND HAST REDEEMED US TO GOD BY **THY (Jesus) BLOOD**” out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; Rev 5:9
Quite obviously then, with the dilemma above resolved this quote reads right.
True!Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,07:45) Quote
Have you forgotten that Jesus is the “Second Adam”? He is the source of the New Covenant or New Creation. It is his Blood of the NT that gives us life! Just as Adam was the source of the human race through his blood!
Correct…
Thanks!Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,07:45) Quote
The Holy Spirit (which you say is the Father) did not shed his blood on the cross did he?
correct…
Thanks!Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,07:45) Quote
Yet you accuse me of traditions of men!
No comment – (Note: 'No Comment' does not say 'I agree'/'I accept the statement' nor 'I disagree'/'I don't accept the statement'. re: “My Lord and My God!”)
Jesus accepted Thomas’s statement and blessed him!
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,07:45) Quote
He JESUS is the Word (John 1:1), the Bread of life that came down from heaven (John 6) and if any man eat of his flesh (The Word) and drink of his blood (His Spirit) he will have “Eternal life” and it is from him and the Father that the Holy Spirit proceeds! Rev 22:1
Correct again… Jesus asks for, and is given, the Hol
y Spirit FROM the Father.
(Pause…: “Why did Jesus have to ASK the Father for the Holy Spirit? Because it is HIS! – Resume…:)
Jesus had the Spirit without measure when he prayed the Father give us “Another Comforter”!Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,07:45) Guys, watch out for verbal booby traps while you discuss ardently! By the way, WJ, you sound like a non-trinitarian in your post – Please be more careful!
You didn’t have to insult me!Blessings WJ
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 28 2010,08:20) TT, in order to give you time to rest from your rantings I am going to stop discussing with you. it is clear that you are out of your depth (…) and are thrashing around in a deaththrow.
Please take some time out yourself and go back to your studies but this time ask God through Jesus for the aid of the Holy Spirit.
It might take some time but if you are earnest – he will help you.
I have tears in my eyes for you, you are trying to be loyal but to the wrong belief.
I will be about in theis forum but I want to give you a rest.
Please think… about what I have said – I am for you if you desire it, from God through Christ jesus. Amen.
Or Just continue the way you are – the choice is yours – free will 'n all, you know.
Weep for yourself friend!thinker
WJ,
I see the error – There statement was meant to imply that Jesus blood LIKE Adam – i.e. He was Human – hence he wasn't god.
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 27 2010,15:40) WJ and thinker………..So if GOD were to tell you to die and shed you own blood for Him for the sins of Humanity and you were to do that, out of FAITH in HIM, then God is totally Free of any responsibility for that sacrifice> And it would be you along responsible. Now that is NONSENSE Thinking if i ever heard it. GOD was totally right in say it was HIS BLOOD that Paid the sin debt for (HIS) CREATION because Jesus GAVE GOD THE FATHER HIS LIEFS BLOOD> Jesus himself (DID NOT WANT TO DIE) as scripture (PLAINLY) Says. IT WAS GOD WILL THAT HE DIE AND THEREFORE IT WAS GOD'S BLOOD OFFERING THAT WAS POURED OUT, AND JESUS WAS HIS LAMB OFFERING. That is what is meant in others scriptures as having someones blood on you hands. it means you are responsible for their death. AS scripture (PLAINLY) say you and thinker need to quite twisting scriptures to push you TRIUNE GOD THEOLOGY'S.
“No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and **I have power to take it again**. This commandment have I received of my Father“. John 10:18WJ
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,16:09) Did I not say that he who God wishes to curse (or sommat like that) he first makes them crazy – like Saul. How long have I been askin' him to step out – I know he is not a true Trinitarian – this is why it is affecting him so much.
His spirit is writhing sommat awfully within him because he realises his error but Satan is holding him. He is a great Scholar but just chose the easy route to success and now it is payback time (When you dance to the devil's tune you stop when He says)
Poor guy. Did I/We not offer support to him – be not ashamed – it is a good thing – God will bless you for turning.
TT, I'm sorry for you – Please forgive me for the pressure – I wanted you to change, I was encouraging, a bit harse (can't help it – my nature – we all afflicted with summat or over! bad englis.)
Totally uncalled for and false!WJ
JustAskin said:
Quote Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed “the church of God, which **HE (God, Jesus) HATH PURCHASED WITH HIS OWN BLOOD**”. Acts 20:28
This is just a Scriptural quote. “Church of God” is a translation error and should read “Church of the Lord”. Quite obvious really – There is no such thing as the “Church of God” – It was Jesus who established the Church.WorshippingJesus replied:
Quote Wrong again. You put your foot in your own mouth. First of all the word “Theos” God is found in the ancient manuscripts.
WJ,You are absolutely correct. The word “God” appears in the earliest manuscripts. The Critical Text which is based in early Greek manuscripts has the word “God.”
The texts which read “the Lord” are from Latin translations. The early Greek texts say, “feed the church of God, which He has purchased with His own blood.”
thinker
WJ wrote: “You didn’t have to insult me!”
Don't you see as happy person (when I'm not steaming!) in me who like a joke now and again – If it is insulting I am sorry – I will try to be more Careful.
Let's take some time out – a truce – for a fallen Mighty warrior and Ally (to you) (Like Achilles at Troy – oh, Hector, I liked Achilles – in fact I just threw out a stutue that I had of 'him' – No, No, I wasn't worshipping him by any means)
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 27 2010,16:17) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 28 2010,07:55) Quote (Gene @ Jan. 28 2010,07:40) WJ and thinker………..So if GOD were to tell you to die and shed you own blood for Him for the sins of Humanity and you were to do that, out of FAITH in HIM, then God is totally Free of any responsibility for that sacrifice> And it would be you along responsible. Now that is NONSENSE Thinking if i ever heard it. GOD was totally right in say it was HIS BLOOD that Paid the sin debt for (HIS) CREATION because Jesus GAVE GOD THE FATHER HIS LIEFS BLOOD> Jesus himself (DID NOT WANT TO DIE) as scripture (PLAINLY) Says. IT WAS GOD WILL THAT HE DIE AND THEREFORE IT WAS GOD'S BLOOD OFFERING THAT WAS POURED OUT, AND JESUS WAS HIS LAMB OFFERING. That is what is meant in others scriptures as having someones blood on you hands. it means you are responsible for their death. AS scripture (PLAINLY) say you and thinker need to quite twisting scriptures to push you TRIUNE GOD THEOLOGY'S.
Gene,Hog wash! It was God's blood because God WAS MADE flesh and blood. The Bible is CLEAR about it!
thinker
thinker……Really so now we are to believe your deluded version of GOD being made flesh and blood. Interesting Jesus said no one have seen GOD, and John said no one has (EVER) seen GOD, and again “flesh and blood can (NOT) enter into the Kingdom of GOD” but then the TRINITARIANS HAVE it right. Now that is hog wash thinker. Your continual inability to understand the sense of what is being said in scripture is a great hindrance to you thinker. But them it takes the SPIRIT of TRUTH to understand scriptures rightly .IMOI wish i could help but that is the hands of GOD thinker.
Peace and love……………gene
GeneThen you are calling “Abraham”, Isaac, Moses, and Isaiah liars!
Not to mention that Jesus said “If you see me you see the Father and know him”!
Notice also Gene that Jesus himself said that he seen the Father!
WJ
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 28 2010,08:23) WJ, There is no further need for you to answer my question of “As to what did Jesus die – God or man”, TT has answered it for you.
JA,Your “God or man” Jesus is a “straw man” Jesus. The real Jesus could be divided.
thinker
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,16:43) WJ wrote: “You didn’t have to insult me!” Don't you see as happy person (when I'm not steaming!) in me who like a joke now and again – If it is insulting I am sorry – I will try to be more Careful.
Let's take some time out – a truce – for a fallen Mighty warrior and Ally (to you) (Like Achilles at Troy – oh, Hector, I liked Achilles – in fact I just threw out a stutue that I had of 'him' – No, No, I wasn't worshipping him by any means)
JA Did you miss my smiling face?WJ
oh, and I missed replying to the “Church of God” bit.
Hmmm.. I have no answer – If that is what it clearly says then so be it – but it has no qualifying verse (or is there one) so that can be revisited another day.
JustAskin said:
Quote Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed “the church of God, which **HE (God, Jesus) HATH PURCHASED WITH HIS OWN BLOOD**”. Acts 20:28
This is just a Scriptural quote. “Church of God” is a translation error and should read “Church of the Lord”. Quite obvious really – There is no such thing as the “Church of God” – It was Jesus who established the Church.
JA,The text that says “the Lord” is from Latin translations. The earliest Greek texts say “Feed the church of GOD, which He has purchased with His own blood.”
thinker
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,16:47) oh, and I missed replying to the “Church of God” bit. Hmmm.. I have no answer – If that is what it clearly says then so be it – but it has no qualifying verse (or is there one) so that can be revisited another day.
JAThe qualifying verse is Acts 20:28!
WJ
Gene said:
Quote thinker……Really so now we are to believe your deluded version of GOD being made flesh and blood. Interesting Jesus said no one have seen GOD, and John said no one has (EVER) seen GOD, and again “flesh and blood can (NOT) enter into the Kingdom of GOD” but then the TRINITARIANS HAVE it right. Now that is hog wash thinker. Your continual inability to understand the sense of what is being said in scripture is a great hindrance to you thinker. But them it takes the SPIRIT of TRUTH to understand scriptures rightly .IMO I wish i could help but that is the hands of GOD thinker.
Peace and love……………gene
God appeared in human form in the old testament didn't He? Jacob wrestled with God.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 28 2010,08:38) Quote (Gene @ Jan. 27 2010,15:40) WJ and thinker………..So if GOD were to tell you to die and shed you own blood for Him for the sins of Humanity and you were to do that, out of FAITH in HIM, then God is totally Free of any responsibility for that sacrifice> And it would be you along responsible. Now that is NONSENSE Thinking if i ever heard it. GOD was totally right in say it was HIS BLOOD that Paid the sin debt for (HIS) CREATION because Jesus GAVE GOD THE FATHER HIS LIEFS BLOOD> Jesus himself (DID NOT WANT TO DIE) as scripture (PLAINLY) Says. IT WAS GOD WILL THAT HE DIE AND THEREFORE IT WAS GOD'S BLOOD OFFERING THAT WAS POURED OUT, AND JESUS WAS HIS LAMB OFFERING. That is what is meant in others scriptures as having someones blood on you hands. it means you are responsible for their death. AS scripture (PLAINLY) say you and thinker need to quite twisting scriptures to push you TRIUNE GOD THEOLOGY'S.
“No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and **I have power to take it again**. This commandment have I received of my Father“. John 10:18WJ
WJ………He did GIVE HIMSELF TO GOD THE FATHER TOTALLY, He did not have to but he did. That does not change what i was saying about Him being GOD”S sacrifice and His blood was ON GOD'S Hands because it was GOD the FATHER that POURED HIM OUT FOR OUR SINS. Jesus gave himself (TOTALLY) to GOD, and done GOD'S WILL NOT HIS WILL< can't you understand even that. Come on WJ surely you understand at least that brother. DO you honestly think Jesus wanted to die. If so why did he sweat drops like blood for and ask the Father is he would remove the cup from him. Jesus is and was not GOD because GOD can not die, if He ever did the whole creation would cease to exist.Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 27 2010,16:51) Gene said: Quote thinker……Really so now we are to believe your deluded version of GOD being made flesh and blood. Interesting Jesus said no one have seen GOD, and John said no one has (EVER) seen GOD, and again “flesh and blood can (NOT) enter into the Kingdom of GOD” but then the TRINITARIANS HAVE it right. Now that is hog wash thinker. Your continual inability to understand the sense of what is being said in scripture is a great hindrance to you thinker. But them it takes the SPIRIT of TRUTH to understand scriptures rightly .IMO I wish i could help but that is the hands of GOD thinker.
Peace and love……………gene
God appeared in human form in the old testament didn't He? Jacob wrestled with God.
thinker
Gene says to Jack…“Now that is hog wash thinker. Your continual inability to understand the sense of what is being said in scripture is a great hindrance to you thinker.“
Can anybody see the diffirence in dialogue here between Jack and others?
Patronizing statements are uncalled for. A person who responds with accusations, condescending and condemning attitudes, rather than responding with scripture like Jack does, is proof of desperation IMO!
Seriously, lets grow up and stop this madness!
WJ
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 27 2010,16:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 28 2010,08:38) Quote (Gene @ Jan. 27 2010,15:40) WJ and thinker………..So if GOD were to tell you to die and shed you own blood for Him for the sins of Humanity and you were to do that, out of FAITH in HIM, then God is totally Free of any responsibility for that sacrifice> And it would be you along responsible. Now that is NONSENSE Thinking if i ever heard it. GOD was totally right in say it was HIS BLOOD that Paid the sin debt for (HIS) CREATION because Jesus GAVE GOD THE FATHER HIS LIEFS BLOOD> Jesus himself (DID NOT WANT TO DIE) as scripture (PLAINLY) Says. IT WAS GOD WILL THAT HE DIE AND THEREFORE IT WAS GOD'S BLOOD OFFERING THAT WAS POURED OUT, AND JESUS WAS HIS LAMB OFFERING. That is what is meant in others scriptures as having someones blood on you hands. it means you are responsible for their death. AS scripture (PLAINLY) say you and thinker need to quite twisting scriptures to push you TRIUNE GOD THEOLOGY'S.
“No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and **I have power to take it again**. This commandment have I received of my Father“. John 10:18WJ
WJ………He did GIVE HIMSELF TO GOD THE FATHER TOTALLY, He did not have to but he did. That does not change what i was saying about Him being GOD”S sacrifice and His blood was ON GOD'S Hands because it was GOD the FATHER that POURED HIM OUT FOR OUR SINS. Jesus gave himself (TOTALLY) to GOD, and done GOD'S WILL NOT HIS WILL< can't you understand even that. Come on WJ surely you understand at least that brother. DO you honestly think Jesus wanted to die. If so why did he sweat drops like blood for and ask the Father is he would remove the cup from him. Jesus is and was not GOD because GOD can not die, if He ever did the whole creation would cease to exist.
GeneYour point about Jesus sweating blood and willingly dying is proof that his blood and life was his and not the Fathers that he gave.
The Father did not take 39 stripes and go through the beating so that his visage could not be made out and then carry “HIS” cross and shed “HIS” blood and hang on the cross for 6 hours!
Why can you not see that? Is it because you cannot accept the clear teaching of the scripture in Acts 20:28?
Jesus “Had the Power to lay down his life and he had the power to take it again”. He had that power!
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 28 2010,09:24) Hi TT,
Many men thought they saw or spoke with God when they met with his spirits[angels]
Are you saying that Jacob was wrong?So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” Genesis 32:30
Are you saying that spirits could take human form and not God who is also a spirit? Are you saying that spirits have more power than God?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 28 2010,09:41) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 28 2010,09:24) Hi TT,
Many men thought they saw or spoke with God when they met with his spirits[angels]
Are you saying that Jacob was wrong?So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” Genesis 32:30
Are you saying that spirits could take human form and not God who is also a spirit? Are you saying that spirits have more power than God?
thinker
Hi thethinker:God may be seen through the works that HE does, but He himself is invisible, and so, as Jesus has said “He who has seen me has seen the Father”. How have we seen the Father when we have seen Jesus? It is through the works of obedience to God's Word that we have seen the Father.
And so, others may have seen God through the works that He did in the OT as well, but:
Quote Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, [fn] who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared [Him]. Quote Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Love in Christ,
Marty
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