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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 28 2010,06:31) Hi TT,
No sun in the sunbeams I see.
The Sun is not light and heat.The Son now is the source of salvation by the sovereign choice of his God.
I thought by “IN” we were talking about “working IN?”Your whole premise of God being IN Christ is that God was working IN Christ reconciling the world to Himself.
So the sun works IN the rays and the rays work IN sun. What is the one without the other?
Jesus meant, “I [am working] IN the Father and the Father [is working] IN Me.” What is the one without the other Nick?
Nick:
Quote The Son now is the source of salvation by the sovereign choice of his God.
Invalid inference Nick. Hebrews 5:9 contradicts you:though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
He became the SOURCE of eternal salvation THROUGH HIS SUFFERINGS!
You minimize His sufferings Nick. You should cry a bucket of tears for all your cursings!
He HIMSELF is the propitiation for our sins….
thinker
Hi TT,
He is the propitiation for our sins.
Not unto himself of course but as the sacrificial lamb unto the Father.
You should not make him into another god as God is one and he is the appointed Lord of all.WorshippingJesus said to JustAskin:
Quote You have it all wrong! It’s not “Wholly man” that brings us salvation but it is “Wholly God”! It was not from “Adam” that salvation comes, but it is by the “Second Adam”, the Lord from heaven (1 Cor 15:45-48) who is God in the flesh! (1 Tim 3:16) 
thinker
Just in case anyone missed it…
Here is the truth. And WJ affirms it – even if he didn't mean to.
Quote To All, Standing inward to close to the source of the discord obscures the obvious:
Sorry Nick – not being disloyal but Satan often allows TRUTH to be exposed by his own and then stand back and watch everyone argue AGAINST it!!
Did you ever play the game “Get you to Say 'Yes'”:
Two people: One Says …Yes… the other says …No…
Keep saying it to each other in turn long enough then…
The first says …No…, Immediately the other says …yes… and the first says: “haha! Gotcha to say 'Yes'”Well, WJ is actual correct in what he says:
QuoteWhy do you persist that it is the Holy Spirits blood and not Jesus “OWN BLOOD” that redeemed us?
It WAS Jesus' blood that redeemed us.
Quote
Your logic fails because if we have Adams blood and that makes us human, then if Jesus blood is the Blood of God then that makes him God.
Jesus had ADAMS blood – that makes Him Human – not God!
Quote
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed “the church of God, which **HE (God, Jesus) HATH PURCHASED WITH HIS OWN BLOOD**”. Acts 20:28
This is just a Scriptural quote. “Church of God” is a translation error and should read “Church of the Lord”.
Quite obvious really – There is no such thing as the “Church of God” – It was Jesus who established the Church.
The “Church” is to Jesus what the “Temple” is to God.Quote
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: “FOR THOU (Jesus) WAST SLAIN, AND HAST REDEEMED US TO GOD BY **THY (Jesus) BLOOD**” out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; Rev 5:9
Quite obviously then, with the dilemma above resolved this quote reads right.
Quote
Have you forgotten that Jesus is the “Second Adam”? He is the source of the New Covenant or New Creation. It is his Blood of the NT that gives us life! Just as Adam was the source of the human race through his blood!
Correct…
Quote
The Holy Spirit (which you say is the Father) did not shed his blood on the cross did he?
correct…
Quote
Yet you accuse me of traditions of men!
No comment – (Note: 'No Comment' does not say 'I agree'/'I accept the statement' nor 'I disagree'/'I don't accept the statement'. re: “My Lord and My God!”)
Quote
He JESUS is the Word (John 1:1), the Bread of life that came down from heaven (John 6) and if any man eat of his flesh (The Word) and drink of his blood (His Spirit) he will have “Eternal life” and it is from him and the Father that the Holy Spirit proceeds! Rev 22:1
Correct again… Jesus asks for, and is given, the Holy Spirit FROM the Father.
(Pause…: “Why did Jesus have to ASK the Father for the Holy Spirit? Because it is HIS! – Resume…:)Quote
WJ
Guys, watch out for verbal booby traps while you discuss ardently!
By the way, WJ, you sound like a non-trinitarian in your post – Please be more careful!
Sorry for the mispost. I thought the Quotes would carry over…
Only the first continuous line after [Quote] is WJ
the next line is my comment
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 27 2010,04:16) TT,
Revelations 1 clearly shows WHO is the Almighty… without aobscurity…
JA,Jesus is God Almighty in Revelation 1. The “Almighty” is the One “who is to come.” That's Jesus Christ my friend!
13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Jesus is the “great God and Savior” who will appear! Again, the One who calls Himself “the Almighty” is He which “is to come.” That's Jesus!
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 28 2010,06:55) Hi TT,
He is the propitiation for our sins.
Not unto himself of course but as the sacrificial lamb unto the Father.
You should not make him into another god as God is one and he is the appointed Lord of all.
Double talk Nick! If Jesus Himself is the propitiation for our sins then He is a savior in His own right. And if He is a savior in His own right then He is God. For God CLEARLY said, “Besides Me there is NO Savior” (Is. 43:11).13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
No more invalid inferences Nick!
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 28 2010,07:26) Hi TT,
NO Jesus is the Son of that God.
Read what he said.
In Hebrew culture the firstborn Son and the Father were EQUAL.thinker
TT,
Are you saying that it is not Jesus who died on the Cross for our salvation?
(yes, everything goes back to God in the end – it was his plan after all – bear this in mind for later…!)Are you saying that it is God who died on the cross who brought salvation (a bit unfair isn't it? Can God Die?)
Then I must be reading a WHOLLY different Bible to you because it clearly says in mine that it is Jesus.
Did I say that it was from 'Adam' that salvation came? Show me? Jesus Christ, the 'Second Adam', assuredly yes.
TT, I think you have totaly lost it – I fear for you greatly.
I think that you only debate here now so you can use those ghastly moving Icon things as a taunt (water off my back for what they meant to say but it says a whole heap more about YOU? By the way, I just don't like them – they look stupid, childish, bullyish, even, beyond idiotic, crass, whatever… but if you must – silly child!!)——————————–
WJ, do you scream when you hear 'your belief' being screwed around with by the likes of TT and Katjo – do you see these loonies as ones in keeping with your belief.
Put aside that you you are a true trinitarian (my aim is not to convince you but only to test myself against you), when you read the nonesense your colleagues write, how does that make you feel (Oh, no, don't tell me here – just think it to yourself, in private)
WJ and thinker………..So if GOD were to tell you to die and shed you own blood for Him for the sins of Humanity and you were to do that, out of FAITH in HIM, then God is totally Free of any responsibility for that sacrifice> And it would be you along responsible. Now that is NONSENSE Thinking if i ever heard it. GOD was totally right in say it was HIS BLOOD that Paid the sin debt for (HIS) CREATION because Jesus GAVE GOD THE FATHER HIS LIEFS BLOOD> Jesus himself (DID NOT WANT TO DIE) as scripture (PLAINLY) Says. IT WAS GOD WILL THAT HE DIE AND THEREFORE IT WAS GOD'S BLOOD OFFERING THAT WAS POURED OUT, AND JESUS WAS HIS LAMB OFFERING. That is what is meant in others scriptures as having someones blood on you hands. it means you are responsible for their death. AS scripture (PLAINLY) say you and thinker need to quite twisting scriptures to push you TRIUNE GOD THEOLOGY'S.
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 28 2010,07:40) WJ and thinker………..So if GOD were to tell you to die and shed you own blood for Him for the sins of Humanity and you were to do that, out of FAITH in HIM, then God is totally Free of any responsibility for that sacrifice> And it would be you along responsible. Now that is NONSENSE Thinking if i ever heard it. GOD was totally right in say it was HIS BLOOD that Paid the sin debt for (HIS) CREATION because Jesus GAVE GOD THE FATHER HIS LIEFS BLOOD> Jesus himself (DID NOT WANT TO DIE) as scripture (PLAINLY) Says. IT WAS GOD WILL THAT HE DIE AND THEREFORE IT WAS GOD'S BLOOD OFFERING THAT WAS POURED OUT, AND JESUS WAS HIS LAMB OFFERING. That is what is meant in others scriptures as having someones blood on you hands. it means you are responsible for their death. AS scripture (PLAINLY) say you and thinker need to quite twisting scriptures to push you TRIUNE GOD THEOLOGY'S.
Gene,Hog wash! It was God's blood because God WAS MADE flesh and blood. The Bible is CLEAR about it!
thinker
TT,
By the way, you are hovering on the border of claiming that Jesus did not come to earth to save us.2 Corinthians 5:18 “All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation;”
Why is God named differently from christ?
How is God different from Christ?The Scriptures states in 1 john 2:22: “Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist–he denies the Father and the Son.”
– oh, what happened to the Holy Spirit? The third member of the tri-uni-part Mysterious God who lives in unapproachable light Never mind – it a 'Technical matter' I hear you say.
After all, God, “YOUR GOD” is a tri-uni-part Mysterious God with a Son (who is also the tri-uni-part Mysterious God) who came to reveal said tri-uni-part mysterious God to us – but oh, we have seen him – he is the exact image of his father, er Son, er Spirit So now we have seen God and we are ALL DEAD because the Scriptures cleary state that noone (Man) can see God and Live.
TT, Step off and Step out before it Eats you out.
I think we need t eave TheThinker to think a little more about what he is doing – He has gone doolally – and we pushed him to it.
We need to seek forgiveness ourselves – no joke – he is gone!!
Did I not say that he who God wishes to curse (or sommat like that) he first makes them crazy – like Saul.
How long have I been askin' him to step out – I know he is not a true Trinitarian – this is why it is affecting him so much.
His spirit is writhing sommat awfully within him because he realises his error but Satan is holding him. He is a great Scholar but just chose the easy route to success and now it is payback time (When you dance to the devil's tune you stop when He says)
Poor guy. Did I/We not offer support to him – be not ashamed – it is a good thing – God will bless you for turning.
TT, I'm sorry for you – Please forgive me for the pressure – I wanted you to change, I was encouraging, a bit harse (can't help it – my nature – we all afflicted with summat or over! bad englis.)
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 28 2010,08:00) TT,
By the way, you are hovering on the border of claiming that Jesus did not come to earth to save us.2 Corinthians 5:18 “All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation;”
Why is God named differently from christ?
How is God different from Christ?The Scriptures states in 1 john 2:22: “Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist–he denies the Father and the Son.”
– oh, what happened to the Holy Spirit? The third member of the tri-uni-part Mysterious God who lives in unapproachable light Never mind – it a 'Technical matter' I hear you say.
After all, God, “YOUR GOD” is a tri-uni-part Mysterious God with a Son (who is also the tri-uni-part Mysterious God) who came to reveal said tri-uni-part mysterious God to us – but oh, we have seen him – he is the exact image of his father, er Son, er Spirit So now we have seen God and we are ALL DEAD because the Scriptures cleary state that noone (Man) can see God and Live.
TT, Step off and Step out before it Eats you out.
JA,Explain why the Father addresses the Son as “God” and anoints Him?
8 But to the Son He says:
“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”You insinuate that I deny that Jesus is the Anointed (Christ) because I say that He is God. Well, you accuse the Father also of being antichrist for the Father both calls Him “God” and anoints Him.
You will mock and say, “How can God anoint God?” I reply saying that when a man is ordained to the ministry it involves “man anointing man.”
Again, the Father calls His son “God” and anoints Him. So you should be telling the Father to “Step off and Step out before it Eats Him out.'
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 28 2010,07:55) Quote (Gene @ Jan. 28 2010,07:40) WJ and thinker………..So if GOD were to tell you to die and shed you own blood for Him for the sins of Humanity and you were to do that, out of FAITH in HIM, then God is totally Free of any responsibility for that sacrifice> And it would be you along responsible. Now that is NONSENSE Thinking if i ever heard it. GOD was totally right in say it was HIS BLOOD that Paid the sin debt for (HIS) CREATION because Jesus GAVE GOD THE FATHER HIS LIEFS BLOOD> Jesus himself (DID NOT WANT TO DIE) as scripture (PLAINLY) Says. IT WAS GOD WILL THAT HE DIE AND THEREFORE IT WAS GOD'S BLOOD OFFERING THAT WAS POURED OUT, AND JESUS WAS HIS LAMB OFFERING. That is what is meant in others scriptures as having someones blood on you hands. it means you are responsible for their death. AS scripture (PLAINLY) say you and thinker need to quite twisting scriptures to push you TRIUNE GOD THEOLOGY'S.
Gene,Hog wash! It was God's blood because God WAS MADE flesh and blood. The Bible is CLEAR about it!
thinker
thinker……Really so now we are to believe your deluded version of GOD being made flesh and blood. Interesting Jesus said no one have seen GOD, and John said no one has (EVER) seen GOD, and again “flesh and blood can (NOT) enter into the Kingdom of GOD” but then the TRINITARIANS HAVE it right. Now that is hog wash thinker. Your continual inability to understand the sense of what is being said in scripture is a great hindrance to you thinker. But them it takes the SPIRIT of TRUTH to understand scriptures rightly .IMOI wish i could help but that is the hands of GOD thinker.
Peace and love……………gene
TT, in order to give you time to rest from your rantings I am going to stop discussing with you.
it is clear that you are out of your depth (…) and are thrashing around in a deaththrow.
Please take some time out yourself and go back to your studies but this time ask God through Jesus for the aid of the Holy Spirit.
It might take some time but if you are earnest – he will help you.
I have tears in my eyes for you, you are trying to be loyal but to the wrong belief.
I will be about in theis forum but I want to give you a rest.
Please think… about what I have said – I am for you if you desire it, from God through Christ jesus. Amen.
Or Just continue the way you are – the choice is yours – free will 'n all, you know.
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