- This topic has 18,301 replies, 269 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 5 months ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 13 2009,05:37) Hi KW,
Which part is not written?
Your conclusion.You strung some scriptures together then came up with a conclusion.
I believe the word “spirit” does not even have the same definition in all of those scriptures.
Do you understand how the following two scriptures relate to one another?
John 8:31-36(KJV) reads:
Quote Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
and
John 3:3-7(KJV) reads:
Quote Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Please note that Jesus is not explicit when teaching Nicodemus but instead leaves it up to the later to figure our what he means. On the other hand he was fairly explicit to those Jews that heard him in chapter 8.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 13 2009,06:53) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 13 2009,02:00) Kerwin……….The spirit (intellect) we are given is the Spirit (intellect) to Know the Truth. It is the earnest of the spirits (intellects) of GOD. It both accuses us and defends us, it is the true guidance system from GOD. It is impossible to deceive a person who has this intellect (IN) him. His eye are opened to the truth and the truth sets him free of all the lies and deceptions of the world. This spirit also searches the deep thing of GOD and reveals them to him. IMO peace and love………………….gene
G,
The Spirit is one[1Cor12]
Nick……What Paul is referring to is, that these Spirit (intellects) are (From) ONE SPIRIT (BEING). In that sense it is ONE SPIRIT because GOD is (A) Spirit (means he is composed of SPIRIT) in fact all SPIRITS (intellects) are HIS. God is composed of SEVEN SPIRIT INTELLECTS with POWER, as REVELATIONS SHOWS, These SEVEN represent (ONE GOD) who is SPIRIT. Get it?gene
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 13 2009,17:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 13 2009,05:37) Hi KW,
Which part is not written?
Your conclusion.You strung some scriptures together then came up with a conclusion.
I believe the word “spirit” does not even have the same definition in all of those scriptures.
Do you understand how the following two scriptures relate to one another?
John 8:31-36(KJV) reads:
Quote Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
and
John 3:3-7(KJV) reads:
Quote Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Please note that Jesus is not explicit when teaching Nicodemus but instead leaves it up to the later to figure our what he means. On the other hand he was fairly explicit to those Jews that heard him in chapter 8.
Hi KW,
The Spirit of truth does set us free from the Law of sin and death[Rom 8.1]and teach us from within.[2 Jn 2.20]You must be reborn of the Spirit of truth and life.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 13 2009,23:53) Hi KW,
The Spirit of truth does set us free from the Law of sin and death[Rom 8.1]and teach us from within.[2 Jn 2.20]You must be reborn of the Spirit of truth and life.
I agree with what you wrote. My point is we are set free of our corrupt spirit and that corrupt spirit is why all men sin under the law even though the law is good.Kerwin ………..We will not be set free from this corruptible nature until we are dead (Physically) “for the flesh is contrary of the Spirit”, and they are enmity of each other. Because to WILL is Present in the Flesh as Paul said. There is (NO) Good thing that is in this flesh body, As Paul explained. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 14 2009,03:45) Kerwin ………..We will not be set free from this corruptible nature until we are dead (Physically) “for the flesh is contrary of the Spirit”, and they are enmity of each other. Because to WILL is Present in the Flesh as Paul said. There is (NO) Good thing that is in this flesh body, As Paul explained. IMO peace and love…………………….gene
Then you believe Jesus lied to those he spoke to in John 8 as he clearly stated when a Son sets you free you are free indeed.Sadly many walked away believing it was a hard teaching.
Kerwin………….The question is set free from what , Jesus said all who believe on Him and the one who sent Him, Have passed from Judgment to life, Maybe it was judgement of death he was talking about. But still there is the issue of sin, John said whosoever say he has (NO) sin (IS) a lier, Present tense. Paul Said also what i was saying . So the issue is when are we set completely free from sin is it now or when we are resurrected. I believe as long as we are in these flesh bodies there will be a sin nature we will always struggle with.
For to (WILL) is Still Present says Paul. That is why we are saved (BY) GRACE and that (NOT) of ourselves. WE are GROWING in GRACE and KNOWLEDGE> Shows a process not completed yet . IMOpeace and love ……………..gene
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 14 2009,21:28) Kerwin………….The question is set free from what , Jesus said all who believe on Him and the one who sent Him, Have passed from Judgment to life, Maybe it was judgement of death he was talking about. But still there is the issue of sin, John said whosoever say he has (NO) sin (IS) a lier, Present tense. Paul Said also what i was saying . So the issue is when are we set completely free from sin is it now or when we are resurrected. I believe as long as we are in these flesh bodies there will be a sin nature we will always struggle with.
For to (WILL) is Still Present says Paul. That is why we are saved (BY) GRACE and that (NOT) of ourselves. WE are GROWING in GRACE and KNOWLEDGE> Shows a process not completed yet . IMOpeace and love ……………..gene
Jesus tells those Jewish disciples that it anyone who sins is a servant to sin. That is the only thing he mentions that one can be set free of in that passage. In his letter to the Romans Paul uses the same terminology in the 6th chapter. He also wrote in the Fifth Chapter of Galatians that anyone who walks according to the ways of the spirit does not sin. All of that is explicitly laid out for anyone that has ears.I realize many are deceived into using John's words to the effect “whosoever say he has (NO) sin (IS) a lier” to justify their continuing to remain in sin but that is obviously not his intent as he also stated “if anyone sins” which means their is a possibility one does not sin.
John used two different but visibly related words to express his ideas is each area. When he stated “whosoever say he has (NO) sin (IS) a lier” he used the word “humartia” but when he stated “if anyone sins” he used the word “humartano“. I believe he had a reason for doing so.These are the meanings I believe he most likely meant in each case.
hamartia at http://www.searchgodsword.org on November 14, 2009 reads:
Quote 3. collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many
hamartanō at http://www.searchgodsword.org on November 14, 2009 reads:
Quote 5. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
Jesus was in a flesh body and yet did not sin. He accomplished that miracle by the power of God. He even stated that when the rich young man turned away and his disciples asked “who then can be saved”.
As for a process being involved I would have to be careful on how I answer that. Jesus gives us the key to free ourselves as soon as we enter the new covenant but we must learn how free ourselves and that may take time. That is what the spirit of righteousness teaches us.
Hi KW,
Free from the dominion of Satan.
Free to make inspired choices.
Free to decide to be a servant.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 15 2009,02:01) Hi KW,
Free from the dominion of Satan.
Free to make inspired choices.
Free to decide to be a servant.
If I understand you correctly then that is what Jesus teaches us provided we believe it and everything else he teaches.after reading the article on the trinity and all the scriptures stated how can anyone here still think that god,jesus and the holy ghost(spirit) are one. how? those who try to claim it so have to go beyond what the actual scriptures say and reach out within the fleshy worlds own views to come up with that opinion. non of the scriptures quoted from an trinity beleiver say it is so. none. they speculate and assume only. we need to use scriptures as our guide and to learn from , one cannot add there own perception to it, its gods words not mans and from what i see god never said his son was he himself or the hioly spirit either. also gos is love. that is taught i would have to say from all religions but i noticed a lot of mean hurtful evil things are being said by those who believe in the trinity. you have non trinity believers quoting verse after verse after verse of gods own words that they are all seperate and different and not one or the same, thats it, while trinity believers are attacking and saying ungoldly like words to others. hmm seems weird is all. why the hate or unkindness? no need for it unless you are backed in a corner and have nothing else to say or do. i have noticed that all religions except for a few believe in the trinity and yet its not anything from gods own words and those religions persecute and spew forth hate and unkindness. no need for it. if you do gods will to your best ability and believe jesus is our savior and only he can provide our way to salvation from his sacrifice and we life our life as clean and unwordly as possible and show our love we have his salvation and blessing and we will be drawn to him and want to love and talk to others about god and our savior christ and his will. but we need to keep in mind that not all religions are correct as we seen in jesus's day with the phariseas. we cannot preach and believe in non scriptual doctrines originated from man. we cannot alter gods words at all. in my opinion as long as our beliefs are what gods words state and we accept jesus and are cleansed with water(baptized) and have a relationship with god and life a clean life we will be included in gods future plans and be in his book of life traveling on that narrow road. i hope to be on it and see everyone here and never be plagued with hate and death and sickness and greed all of mans weakness. i never have really been interested in hte bible until 3 monthss ago and pray to him often and i feel compelled to seek more knowlegde and more of a relationship with him and i really feel for the first time, calm and complete and lifes burdens lifted from me. i ask for his guidence and help and i honestly feel his presence pushing me forward in that goal and i am in aww that prayer really works and he really does love everyone of us if we reach out to him. it has to be him. i hate how this world is and yurn for his intervention and be apart of it. btw who wrote those articles on the home page – i really like his writings and has great knowledge and understanding. is this a certain religion website . what religion are the people or person who wrote them. want to learn about all types of religions.
,peace2all……….Welcome to the site. It always excites me to see God opening up eyes to the false teaching of the trinity and other false teachings. Hope you will find more answers here and share you thoughts also with us.
peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 15 2009,06:09) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 14 2009,21:28) Kerwin………….The question is set free from what , Jesus said all who believe on Him and the one who sent Him, Have passed from Judgment to life, Maybe it was judgement of death he was talking about. But still there is the issue of sin, John said whosoever say he has (NO) sin (IS) a lier, Present tense. Paul Said also what i was saying . So the issue is when are we set completely free from sin is it now or when we are resurrected. I believe as long as we are in these flesh bodies there will be a sin nature we will always struggle with.
For to (WILL) is Still Present says Paul. That is why we are saved (BY) GRACE and that (NOT) of ourselves. WE are GROWING in GRACE and KNOWLEDGE> Shows a process not completed yet . IMOpeace and love ……………..gene
Jesus tells those Jewish disciples that it anyone who sins is a servant to sin. That is the only thing he mentions that one can be set free of in that passage. In his letter to the Romans Paul uses the same terminology in the 6th chapter. He also wrote in the Fifth Chapter of Galatians that anyone who walks according to the ways of the spirit does not sin. All of that is explicitly laid out for anyone that has ears.I realize many are deceived into using John's words to the effect “whosoever say he has (NO) sin (IS) a lier” to justify their continuing to remain in sin but that is obviously not his intent as he also stated “if anyone sins” which means their is a possibility one does not sin.
John used two different but visibly related words to express his ideas is each area. When he stated “whosoever say he has (NO) sin (IS) a lier” he used the word “humartia” but when he stated “if anyone sins” he used the word “humartano“. I believe he had a reason for doing so.These are the meanings I believe he most likely meant in each case.
hamartia at http://www.searchgodsword.org on November 14, 2009 reads:
Quote 3. collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many
hamartanō at http://www.searchgodsword.org on November 14, 2009 reads:
Quote 5. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
Jesus was in a flesh body and yet did not sin. He accomplished that miracle by the power of God. He even stated that when the rich young man turned away and his disciples asked “who then can be saved”.
As for a process being involved I would have to be careful on how I answer that. Jesus gives us the key to free ourselves as soon as we enter the new covenant but we must learn how free ourselves and that may take time. That is what the spirit of righteousness teaches us.
Excellent post, KW
Kerwin………All the self righteous like to think they are righteous by their so called (FREE WILL) choices and it supports their PRIDE. They would naturally say people who quote what John said was supporting sin, but if you notice that is no what I or anyone else has said as far as i Know, by quoting Johns words. You present Paul as saying He did not sin, but yet that is not what Paul said regarding himself did He? “For that thing i would not do that i do, and that good thing i would do i don't do” now if i do the which i would not do then it is no longer i that do it but (SIN) that dwells in Me . So it does seem that Paul had sin present in him. And again “O” wretched man that i am who can deliver me from this (BODY) of Death, I thank GOD through Jesus Christ. Paul knew that the only way he could make it was not by ridding (HIMSELF) from SIN, by his (SELF-Choices), but by the BLOOD of CHRIST JESUS. Now you may say i support sin, which would be an absolute Lie, but non the less what Paul said and John are true, or why would we even need an advocate to intervene for us at the throne of GOD in time of need. I notice most of your focus is (SELF RELIANCE), by your own so-called (free will) choices, so where does Jesus and GOD the Father play any role in your salvation, seeing it's up to your SELF CHOICES that saves YOU. IMO
Peace and love………………gene
G,
Paul was cleansed and washed and anointed.
Yet sin continued to dwell in his mortal frame.
Earth and it's god own the flesh and death frees us.Quote (Gene @ Nov. 16 2009,23:19) Kerwin………All the self righteous like to think they are righteous by their so called (FREE WILL) choices and it supports their PRIDE. They would naturally say people who quote what John said was supporting sin, but if you notice that is no what I or anyone else has said as far as i Know, by quoting Johns words. You present Paul as saying He did not sin, but yet that is not what Paul said regarding himself did He? “For that thing i would not do that i do, and that good thing i would do i don't do” now if i do the which i would not do then it is no longer i that do it but (SIN) that dwells in Me . So it does seem that Paul had sin present in him. And again “O” wretched man that i am who can deliver me from this (BODY) of Death, I thank GOD through Jesus Christ. Paul knew that the only way he could make it was not by ridding (HIMSELF) from SIN, by his (SELF-Choices), but by the BLOOD of CHRIST JESUS. Now you may say i support sin, which would be an absolute Lie, but non the less what Paul said and John are true, or why would we even need an advocate to intervene for us at the throne of GOD in time of need. I notice most of your focus is (SELF RELIANCE), by your own so-called (free will) choices, so where does Jesus and GOD the Father play any role in your salvation, seeing it's up to your SELF CHOICES that saves YOU. IMO Peace and love………………gene
In Romans 7 Paul is clearly teaching the benefits of the Spirit as compared with the Law. The benefit being the Spirit releases him from his struggles with sin. What good is the Spirit if it does not set you free from sin?Now as for Paul being made perfect. His statement is:
Philippians 3:12-17(KJV) reads:
Quote Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.In order to obtain that perfection you must believe you can do it and Satan will twist scripture or anything else he can do in order to make you doubt that it can be done. Those whom are wise will see through his tricks as they know all things are possible through God.
Jesus challenged a young man who asked how he could be saved with these words:
Matthew 19:21(KJV) quote:
Quote Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Faith is not self reliance. If you choose not to believe God then why should you receive anything from him? It is by God’s grace you receive the spirit of holiness and it is through your continued trust in him that he works to bring you to perfection. Do you trust God?
i was up late and had found this website when i was looking up on the trinity. excuse me for speeling errors and long long sentences.
had a lot on my mind and just kept writin. hope it all makes sense. i noticed that all religions except for a few believe in the trinity, so my pickings are few if i choose to seek out a church. anyone know of what religions that do not teach the trinity. does anyone know what religion the author of this website is if any. i like all he has to say so far. ive learned from both sides on the trinity and see that the bible really does not mention or teach it at all so we must avoid it. my other thing is i want to learn about birthdays and holidays too. i know that the bible mentions birthdays only in which i think john the baptists head was cut of to the daughter of king herod or something – so not sure if birthdays are wrong. and i know that other hoidays are pagan solstice practices whether or not we today celebrate it or not for those same things i would think it still would be ungodly to do. except for halloween it really isnt a pagan thing but some culutures celebrate it to worship the dead so to speak so thats gotta be ungodly to but not sure about the bibles view. any input is good from you all. also iseen a lot of people arguing over if christ was put on a stake or cross – like that even really matters. why argue or hold onto something so petty as that to stop one from really seeking out true knowledge. i had looked up on that issue also and people back then originally were put on stakes then later on it was morphed into a cross section bu orders of a king but i don't remember who but it infact started with a T. i c that the imperial bible dictonary acknowledges “strauros” as the greek word for cross and is defined as an upright pole a stake a piece of paling. the bible also use the word “xylon” to describe it, also the greek lexicon by liddell and scott defines this a meaning as a piece of wood,timber,post, live wood, beam. nowhere in the bible or even other outside biblical dictonaries or references say or describe it as a cross, so why is it used and taught and argued. why would yuo want to wear and worship it( god said not to worship false idols etc.) so that is a form of it ain't it. we need to hold dear to truth that we are saved from jesus having shed his blood for our sins, nothing about a cross or anything else so i think it should not even be used as such a icon at all. don't need it and not in the scriptures to do so. it is in fact a form of worship to it. i rhink that if all religions didn't teach the trinity and or the cross worship that all religions pretty much would be on the same page and it would be all good and we can move on in spiritual growth to the real task at hand to be truely saved. no matter what religion it would be a path that had no false doctrines or teachings in it and then there would be no stupid arguments about whose right or wrong. we would be all on that same path leading to salvation:D
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
