- This topic has 18,301 replies, 269 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 5 months ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 08 2009,09:57) Hi M,
It does not need to be proved from logical outcomes that Jesus came from above.
He said so.
Nick I agree a 100%
IreneQuote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 08 2009,09:57) Hi M,
It does not need to be proved from logical outcomes that Jesus came from above.
He said so.
Nick………Please post where Jesus said He (CAME) from above, your inserting your own word there. Change meanings to make it appear the way you and preexistences want it to appear. Ike Jesus saying before Abraham i am, as meaning He was in existence as a (Being) before Abraham , when in fact that is ( NOT) what He Said . That is forcing the text to comply with you dogmas and views. IMOgene
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 08 2009,15:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 08 2009,09:57) Hi M,
It does not need to be proved from logical outcomes that Jesus came from above.
He said so.
Nick………Please post where Jesus said He (CAME) from above, your inserting your own word there. Change meanings to make it appear the way you and preexistences want it to appear. Ike Jesus saying before Abraham i am, as meaning He was in existence as a (Being) before Abraham , when in fact that is ( NOT) what He Said . That is forcing the text to comply with you dogmas and views. IMOgene
BumpedJoh 8:23…….And he said Ye are from beneath; I am from above ye are of this world; i am not of this world.
Barnes….> Ye are from beneath– The expression from beneath, here , is opposed to the phrase from above. It means You are of the earth, or are influenced by earthly, sensual, and corrupt passions. You are governed by the lowest and vilest views and feelings, such as opposed to heaven, and such have there origins in earth or hell.
I am from above…> From heaven, My views are heavenly, and my words should have been so interpreted.
You are of this world….> you think and act like the corrupt men of this world.
I am not of this World….> My view are above these earthly and corrupt notions. The meanning of the verse is : Your reference to self-murder shows that you are earthly and corrupt in your views. You are governed by the mad passions of men, and can think only of these.” We see here how difficult it is to excite wicked men to the contemplation of heavenly things> They interpret all things in a low and corrupt sense, and suppose all others to be governed as they are themselves.
This applies to the other verse you posted to NICK. Jesus was talking about He views , not his berth organs at all. His intellect or SPIRIT was from above, not his person. Jesus did not preexist his berth Nick. That would defeat GOD whole Purpose of using a completely Human being to accomplish his purpose for mankind. There is no difference between Jesus' origins and ours, exactly the same as our in (EVERY) WAY. GOD THE Father TOOK A ORDINARY human Being and perfected Him , Just as he can us also. IMO
peace and love……………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 11 2009,19:45) Joh 8:23…….And he said Ye are from beneath; I am from above ye are of this world; i am not of this world. Barnes….> Ye are from beneath– The expression from beneath, here , is opposed to the phrase from above. It means You are of the earth, or are influenced by earthly, sensual, and corrupt passions. You are governed by the lowest and vilest views and feelings, such as opposed to heaven, and such have there origins in earth or hell.
I am from above…> From heaven, My views are heavenly, and my words should have been so interpreted.
You are of this world….> you think and act like the corrupt men of this world.
I am not of this World….> My view are above these earthly and corrupt notions. The meanning of the verse is : Your reference to self-murder shows that you are earthly and corrupt in your views. You are governed by the mad passions of men, and can think only of these.” We see here how difficult it is to excite wicked men to the contemplation of heavenly things> They interpret all things in a low and corrupt sense, and suppose all others to be governed as they are themselves.
This applies to the other verse you posted to NICK. Jesus was talking about He views , not his berth organs at all. His intellect or SPIRIT was from above, not his person. Jesus did not preexist his berth Nick. That would defeat GOD whole Purpose of using a completely Human being to accomplish his purpose for mankind. There is no difference between Jesus' origins and ours, exactly the same as our in (EVERY) WAY. GOD THE Father TOOK A ORDINARY human Being and perfected Him , Just as he can us also. IMO
peace and love……………….gene
Exactly Gene.Nick sounds like a closet trinitarian.
There are many words used in original Bible manuscripts which translate to the English “god.”
In Hebrew, there are four such words: el, elah, eloah, and elohim.
These words are all common nouns which can mean “great” or “mighty” or “ruler” and are used to describe the many different gods mentioned in the Bible.
The Bible mentions that, in many cases, some mortal men are considered gods.
Moses was called a god: “And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god [elohim] to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.” (Exodus 7:1, KJV)
And in the first book of the Bible, Abraham is called a god: “The Hittites answered Abraham, 'Hear us, my lord; you are a mighty [elohim] prince among us.'” (Genesis 23:4-5)
Angels are called gods: “For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then you eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods [elohim], knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:5, KJV)
A specific reference to a messenger of the Lord is made at Judges 13:21-22 which states: “But the angel [elohim] of the Lord appeared no more to Mano'ah and to his wife.”
References to angels as gods are found in dozens of other places in the Bible.
Other groups, too, are called gods.
In the second Old Testament book, the judges appointed by Moses are called gods: “Then his master shall bring him unto the judges [elohim]…” (Exodus 21:6, KJV; also see Exodus 22:8-9, 28)
Even the princes of Egypt are referred to as gods: “For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will smite all the first-born in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods [elohim] of Egypt [princes] I will execute judgments: I am the Lord.” (Exodus 12:12)
In the New Testament, the Greek word most translated “god” is theos, however it is important to point out that this word is also a common noun applied to all types of gods.
Even Jesus made mention of mortal men being called gods: '”In your own Law it says that men are gods!” he replied.' (John 10:34, TLB)
Satan is called a god in the New testament: “In their case the god [theos] of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers….” (2 Corinthians 4:4)
The ruler Herod is also called a god: “On an appointed day Herod put on his royal robes, took his seat upon the throne, and made an oration to them. And the people shouted, 'The voice of a god [theos], and not of man!'” (Acts 12:21-22)
Since so many beings are referred to as gods, how do we know when the Bible speaks of the only true God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth?
There Is Only One Supreme God
Although there are many words translated as “god” in the English language, the Bible clearly states that thee is but one true eternal Supreme deity and He has a name.
In Bible manuscripts, God Almighty is referred to by the letters YHWH or JHWH, generally called the Tetragrammaton.
The Tetragrammaton appears in the Hebrew texts over 6,800 times and is transliterated as Yahweh or Jehovah.
While many Bible translators prefer “Yahweh,” the most used English pronunciation is “Jehovah.” “That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.” (Psalms 83:18, KJV)
This name is not a common term, like “god,” but is a proper and personal name for God Almighty and is not applied to any other being in the Bible.
Although some Bible translations use God's name, many other translate the Tetragrammaton as LORD or GOD.
It is easy, however, to locate where God's name should appear in most common translations, because GOD or LORD is printed in small capital letters in those places. For common uses of these words, they are printed in regular upper and lower case type.
The Bible speaks of God as being the creator of all things, but it also speaks of all things being made by the “Word.” “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God … all things were made through him ….” (John 1:1, 3)
Are the Word and Jehovah the same person?
If not, who is the Word and what is their relationship?
Blasphemy:
In the sense of speaking evil of Yahweh this word is found in: Ps. 74:18; Isa 52:5; Rom 2:24; Rev 13:1, 6; 16:9, 11, 21.
It denotes also any kind of calumny, or evil speaking, or abuse 1Ki 21:10; Act 13:45; 18:6, etc.
Our Lord was accused of blasphemy when he claimed to be the Son of 'Elohim. Mat 26:65; Mat 9:3; Mar 2:7.
They who deny his Messiahship blaspheme Yeshua. Luk 22:65; Jhn 10:36.
Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (Mat 12:31,32; Mar 3:28,29; Luk 12:10) is regarded by some as a continued and obstinate rejection of the gospel, and hence is an unpardonable sin, simply because as long as a sinner remains in unbelief he voluntarily excludes himself from pardon.
What is the unforgivable sin?
A history of repeated rejection of the Holy Spirit is unforgivable when it reaches the point where the sinner is willfully deaf to 'Elohims's call. Mt 12:30-32.
A sin willfully committed in direct defiance of 'Elohim is unforgivable when it reaches the point where the sinner is an avowed and committed enemy of Yahweh. Nu 15:27-31.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 12 2009,13:12) Nick sounds like a closet trinitarian.
It is hard to throw off the shackles that bind one to tradition. Nick has managed to get his partially off and by the grace of God he can free himself entirely.I believe he looks to much toward the letter of the law and neglects the Spirit.
He has yet to answer “why one needs to be reborn in spirit if the spirit one has already is not corrupt?”
He seems afraid to ask himself such questions and yet God does not state everything explicitly. That puts him at a disadvantage in seeking the truth.
Trust in Jesus, Trust in God.
Hi KW,
The answer is in Ecc12, Jn7.The spirit we are given only allows us to go to the well for life every day and eventually, after a mere few years the rope breaks and the bucket falls to the bottom of the well.[ecc12]
Before that happens we must come to the source of living water, Jesus Christ, and he gives us water that wells up like a fountain unto eternal life.[Jn7]Nothing wrong with the first spirit which is with the Spirit of God, if we are reborn, till we die[Rom8, Jas2],we are given which returns to God[Ecc12] but it is only lent to us for a SHORT TIME of opportunity, a lifetime.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 12 2009,14:59) Hi KW,
The answer is in Ecc12, Jn7.The spirit we are given only allows us to go to the well for life every day and eventually, after a mere few years the rope breaks and the bucket falls to the bottom of the well.[ecc12]
Before that happens we must come to the source of living water, Jesus Christ, and he gives us water that wells up like a fountain unto eternal life.[Jn7]Nothing wrong with the first spirit which is with the Spirit of God, if we are reborn, till we die[Rom8, Jas2],we are given which returns to God[Ecc12] but it is only lent to us for a SHORT TIME of opportunity, a lifetime.
I appreciate that answer but “can you find it explicitly written in scripture?”Kerwin……….The spirit (intellect) we are given is the Spirit (intellect) to Know the Truth. It is the earnest of the spirits (intellects) of GOD. It both accuses us and defends us, it is the true guidance system from GOD. It is impossible to deceive a person who has this intellect (IN) him. His eye are opened to the truth and the truth sets him free of all the lies and deceptions of the world. This spirit also searches the deep thing of GOD and reveals them to him. IMO
peace and love………………….gene
Hi KW,
The Spirit of God is the Living Spirit, the Spirit of life.The Spirit of God brings the eternal life to those in whom the Spirit dwells.
The spirit of man gives life to men for a limited time and returns to God.
Where does scripture state that the spirit given to man is corrupted?Quote (Gene @ Nov. 12 2009,14:45) Joh 8:23…….And he said Ye are from beneath; I am from above ye are of this world; i am not of this world. Barnes….> Ye are from beneath– The expression from beneath, here , is opposed to the phrase from above. It means You are of the earth, or are influenced by earthly, sensual, and corrupt passions. You are governed by the lowest and vilest views and feelings, such as opposed to heaven, and such have there origins in earth or hell.
I am from above…> From heaven, My views are heavenly, and my words should have been so interpreted.
You are of this world….> you think and act like the corrupt men of this world.
I am not of this World….> My view are above these earthly and corrupt notions. The meanning of the verse is : Your reference to self-murder shows that you are earthly and corrupt in your views. You are governed by the mad passions of men, and can think only of these.” We see here how difficult it is to excite wicked men to the contemplation of heavenly things> They interpret all things in a low and corrupt sense, and suppose all others to be governed as they are themselves.
This applies to the other verse you posted to NICK. Jesus was talking about He views , not his berth organs at all. His intellect or SPIRIT was from above, not his person. Jesus did not preexist his berth Nick. That would defeat GOD whole Purpose of using a completely Human being to accomplish his purpose for mankind. There is no difference between Jesus' origins and ours, exactly the same as our in (EVERY) WAY. GOD THE Father TOOK A ORDINARY human Being and perfected Him , Just as he can us also. IMO
peace and love……………….gene
That is what Jesus means by being born from above but some here would think that means us being born in a cloud.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 12 2009,18:17) There are many words used in original Bible manuscripts which translate to the English “god.” In Hebrew, there are four such words: el, elah, eloah, and elohim.
These words are all common nouns which can mean “great” or “mighty” or “ruler” and are used to describe the many different gods mentioned in the Bible.
The Bible mentions that, in many cases, some mortal men are considered gods.
Moses was called a god: “And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god [elohim] to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.” (Exodus 7:1, KJV)
And in the first book of the Bible, Abraham is called a god: “The Hittites answered Abraham, 'Hear us, my lord; you are a mighty [elohim] prince among us.'” (Genesis 23:4-5)
Angels are called gods: “For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then you eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods [elohim], knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:5, KJV)
A specific reference to a messenger of the Lord is made at Judges 13:21-22 which states: “But the angel [elohim] of the Lord appeared no more to Mano'ah and to his wife.”
References to angels as gods are found in dozens of other places in the Bible.
Other groups, too, are called gods.
In the second Old Testament book, the judges appointed by Moses are called gods: “Then his master shall bring him unto the judges [elohim]…” (Exodus 21:6, KJV; also see Exodus 22:8-9, 28)
Even the princes of Egypt are referred to as gods: “For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will smite all the first-born in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods [elohim] of Egypt [princes] I will execute judgments: I am the Lord.” (Exodus 12:12)
In the New Testament, the Greek word most translated “god” is theos, however it is important to point out that this word is also a common noun applied to all types of gods.
Even Jesus made mention of mortal men being called gods: '”In your own Law it says that men are gods!” he replied.' (John 10:34, TLB)
Satan is called a god in the New testament: “In their case the god [theos] of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers….” (2 Corinthians 4:4)
The ruler Herod is also called a god: “On an appointed day Herod put on his royal robes, took his seat upon the throne, and made an oration to them. And the people shouted, 'The voice of a god [theos], and not of man!'” (Acts 12:21-22)
Since so many beings are referred to as gods, how do we know when the Bible speaks of the only true God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth?
There Is Only One Supreme God
Although there are many words translated as “god” in the English language, the Bible clearly states that thee is but one true eternal Supreme deity and He has a name.
In Bible manuscripts, God Almighty is referred to by the letters YHWH or JHWH, generally called the Tetragrammaton.
The Tetragrammaton appears in the Hebrew texts over 6,800 times and is transliterated as Yahweh or Jehovah.
While many Bible translators prefer “Yahweh,” the most used English pronunciation is “Jehovah.” “That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.” (Psalms 83:18, KJV)
This name is not a common term, like “god,” but is a proper and personal name for God Almighty and is not applied to any other being in the Bible.
Although some Bible translations use God's name, many other translate the Tetragrammaton as LORD or GOD.
It is easy, however, to locate where God's name should appear in most common translations, because GOD or LORD is printed in small capital letters in those places. For common uses of these words, they are printed in regular upper and lower case type.
The Bible speaks of God as being the creator of all things, but it also speaks of all things being made by the “Word.” “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God … all things were made through him ….” (John 1:1, 3)
Are the Word and Jehovah the same person?
If not, who is the Word and what is their relationship?
That is exactly why I started studying The Quran, Hebrew in its classical form is not really understood as it is not really spoken today but Arabic its sister language is a pure tongue clearly interpreted.Studying the Quran there is never any confusion over who is or is not God.
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 13 2009,02:00) Kerwin……….The spirit (intellect) we are given is the Spirit (intellect) to Know the Truth. It is the earnest of the spirits (intellects) of GOD. It both accuses us and defends us, it is the true guidance system from GOD. It is impossible to deceive a person who has this intellect (IN) him. His eye are opened to the truth and the truth sets him free of all the lies and deceptions of the world. This spirit also searches the deep thing of GOD and reveals them to him. IMO peace and love………………….gene
G,
The Spirit is one[1Cor12]Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 13 2009,00:04) Hi KW,
The Spirit of God is the Living Spirit, the Spirit of life.The Spirit of God brings the eternal life to those in whom the Spirit dwells.
The spirit of man gives life to men for a limited time and returns to God.
Where does scripture state that the spirit given to man is corrupted?
I am pointing out that you are using reasoning to reach a conclusion that is not explicitly written in scripture. I admit that I do the same.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
