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Whatever your problem is thinker there still is no trinity.
Ephesians 4:6 says that the Father is above All, and in us All.
Jesus also says that “My Father is greater then I.” Also the Spirit is the Spirit of God the Father. No 3in1. Nowhere in the Bible can you find the trinity written. When it is not written no go.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Cindy @ June 15 2009,00:01) Whatever your problem is thinker there still is no trinity.
Ephesians 4:6 says that the Father is above All, and in us All.
Jesus also says that “My Father is greater then I.” Also the Spirit is the Spirit of God the Father. No 3in1. Nowhere in the Bible can you find the trinity written. When it is not written no go.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,Quote And God said, “Let US make man in OUR image and after OUR likeness I have already answered Jesus' statement that the Father was greater than Him. He has been exalted to the Father's right hand since He said that. He said that He now has ALL authority in heaven and in earth.
He did not have all authority before. This is why the Father was (past tense) greater than Him. If you keep repeating the same argument I will keep giving the same answer. So try another line of reasoning. We have worn out “the Father is greater than I” argument.
blessings,
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ June 14 2009,22:09) bodhitharta said: Quote You are incorrect the scripture says Genesis 1
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.He referred to the man and woman together as them.
I see the problem here you were not sure how the semicolon is used.
No sir. The online Hebrew-English Interlinear establishes my view. There are no semi-colons or such punctuations in the original. In verse 26 it literally says ,
Quote We shall make Adam in the image of us and THEY shall sway in the fish of the sea. Note that verse 26 refers to Adam in the singular and then says “they” shall sway over the fish of the sea.
Then verse 27,
Quote And he is creating Elohim Adam in the image of Him in the image of Elohim he created him male and female he created them http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
So in verse 26 the man and the woman together were called “Adam” (singular). And God said “Let them have dominion….” Then in verse 27 Moses said that God created Adam (him) and male and female He created them.
bodhitharta said:
Quote That is one of the problem people have when studying the bible, they will often overlook conjunctions such as “and” “but” or “or” and such things like colons and semicolons. I don't have that problem. I go right to the original languages which have no punctuations.
bodhitharta said:
Quote Really it is the Final Blow. Then visit the Hebrew-English Interlinear on verse 26,
Quote We shall make Adam in the image of us and THEY shall sway in the fish of the sea…. http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
Can't you see it? God referred to Himself both in the singular and the plural. Then He referred to man (Adam) both in the singular and the plural. So we are a plurality of persons that constitute ONE entity just as God is. We are in His image.
No death blow yet. In fact, the online Interlinear causes you to suffer a set back. I have shown that a plurality of persons may be referred to as “him.” The time has past for you to cast off your western presuppositions.
thinker
I see the problem is also you are using this online interlinear
but the problem is that wouldn't make you understand the Hebrew language anymore than reading interpreted proper spanish allow you to communicate with someone who actually understands spanish. Hebrew is not even read from left to right it is read from right to left and it has no vowels or capitalization.Quote (thethinker @ June 15 2009,00:45) Quote (Cindy @ June 15 2009,00:01) Whatever your problem is thinker there still is no trinity.
Ephesians 4:6 says that the Father is above All, and in us All.
Jesus also says that “My Father is greater then I.” Also the Spirit is the Spirit of God the Father. No 3in1. Nowhere in the Bible can you find the trinity written. When it is not written no go.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,Quote And God said, “Let US make man in OUR image and after OUR likeness I have already answered Jesus' statement that the Father was greater than Him. He has been exalted to the Fther's right hand since He said that. He said that He now has ALL authority in heaven and in earth.
He did not have all authority before. This is why the Father was (past tense) greater than Him. If you keep repeating the same argument I will keep giving the same answer. So try another line of reasoning. We have worn out “the Father is greater than I” argument.
blessings,
thinker
How does being given authority make one equal to he who gives him that authority?If someone greater than me gives me authority, how does that make us equal?
Oh, I get it. YOU think authority is all there is to being God?
If being given authority makes one equal to God, then what does being given power make one? Superior to God?
So now you think authority and power are all there is to being God?
Did you know that even with all that authority and all that power, Jesus still doesn't know everything known to the Father? [Mark 13:32]
God named “El” says there is no God formed before or after him, there is no God beside him, and that he is going to have a son, and that will be named “El with us,” then tells us no son of el is equal to him.
Where is there room for Jesus to be equal with his father?
Oh, right! I forgot. You have a DOCTRINE! YOU have a CREED! YOU have a triune God, even if he doesn't exist.
Paladin……………….well put., many here have that same problem (indoctrination) They don't seem to be able to shake it off, the false teaching of so-call “Christian” organizations , people who don't love truth, God sends to them a deluding spirit in order for them to believe LIES. So if God Has sent them a deluding Spirit, what can anyone do? Just present what we believe as the truth of GOD and let the chips fall where they may, GOD is in charge of it all anyway. So don't get discouraged brother………IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………..gene
Gene I just despiece when people call others names. Stop doing that if you want to be a Christian. IMO nobody knows it all. All have fallen short of the glory of God.
IrenePaladin said:
Quote How does being given authority make one equal to he who gives him that authority? Paladin,
The answer to your question lies in the authority that has been given. Jesus is seated at the right hand of His Father which is a position of EQUALITY and indicates EQUAL authority. And men had better get with the program because he who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father.Quote Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing! And every creature which is in heaven and on earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped (Rev. 5:12-14)
Both God and the Lamb receive EQUAL honor and glory and worship. The twenty four elders were men who fell down and worshiped God and the Lamb. Do you?
thinker
Quote (Gene @ June 15 2009,06:19) Paladin……………….well put., many here have that same problem (indoctrination) They don't seem to be able to shake it off, the false teaching of so-call “Christian” organizations , people who don't love truth, God sends to them a deluding spirit in order for them to believe LIES. So if God Has sent them a deluding Spirit, what can anyone do? Just present what we believe as the truth of GOD and let the chips fall where they may, GOD is in charge of it all anyway. So don't get discouraged brother………IMO peace and love to you and yours……………..gene
Gene,
And you are not indoctrinated? Hear the Scriptures,Quote Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing! And every creature which is in heaven and on earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped (Rev. 5:12-14)
Both God and the Lamb receive EQUAL honor and glory and worship. The twenty four elders were men who fell down and worshiped God and the Lamb. Do you?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ June 15 2009,10:33) Quote (Gene @ June 15 2009,06:19) Paladin……………….well put., many here have that same problem (indoctrination) They don't seem to be able to shake it off, the false teaching of so-call “Christian” organizations , people who don't love truth, God sends to them a deluding spirit in order for them to believe LIES. So if God Has sent them a deluding Spirit, what can anyone do? Just present what we believe as the truth of GOD and let the chips fall where they may, GOD is in charge of it all anyway. So don't get discouraged brother………IMO peace and love to you and yours……………..gene
Gene,
And you are not indoctrinated? Hear the Scriptures,Quote Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing! And every creature which is in heaven and on earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped (Rev. 5:12-14)
Both God and the Lamb receive EQUAL honor and glory and worship. The twenty four elders were men who fell down and worshiped God and the Lamb. Do you?
thinker
Does it not bother you that you deleted half a verse and simply left out:Revelation 5
14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever
Why did you leave out “him that liveth for ever and ever”?
That my friend is spiritual dishonesty. I do forgive you because I understand that you must brutally defend your position but I beg of you, do not kill the truth just to make yourself seem right, this is how corruptions have snuck in the bible already so please if you quote a verse please include the entire verse, they are numbered for a reason.
Either include the verse or leave the verse completely out as a partial verse is deceiving
God bless you! The final blow has already occured to anyone careful in reading the scriptures with the spirit of God upon them.
Your duty is towards God not doctrine, open your eyes and live in the truth.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2009,10:45) Hi TT,
Two as equals?
Two gods then?
Nick,Quote Let US make man in OUR image ONE God in TWO Persons.
thinker
Hi TT,
So binity ?
Trinity theory did start there.
No Jesus is the Son of God and that should end foolish speculationQuote (thethinker @ June 15 2009,10:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2009,10:45) Hi TT,
Two as equals?
Two gods then?
Nick,Quote Let US make man in OUR image ONE God in TWO Persons.
thinker
Man is not made in the image of two persons.To say let us make man in our image is not to say us is God and Jesus because God speaks to the heavenly hosts.
1 Corinthians chpt8 verses 5 & 6. Though there be Lords many and Gods many (understanding that satan is god of this world) to us there is only one God, the father of whom are all things and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things and we by him…… If there really was a place that the apostle Paul neglected to prove that the trinity exist, it was here. A perfect place to explain the three in one, or one as three and he blew it. Paul aint backing up that false doctrine so neither am I. There is only one God who is the father. This is the God that Christ left his glory to show us, for the world never knew the father … John 17:25 Father the world hath not known thee, but I have known thee……… Believe that Christ is the son of God and on that great day he'll show who is the Poentate dwelling in the light no man can approach
Quote (Cindy @ June 15 2009,08:40) Gene I just despiece when people call others names. Stop doing that if you want to be a Christian. IMO nobody knows it all. All have fallen short of the glory of God.
Irene
Ah, sister, why are you so hard?Did not Jesus himself call the Pharisees “hipocryts?” Did he not scourge the money lenders from the temple? Did he not call them the way he saw them? Did not Paul accuse Peter to his face when he caused dissention in the church?
Peter spoke of false teachers and false prophets, wells without water, and clouds carried about by winds of doctrine.
What would you have us do? Call every false teacher
“Brother” as though we do not know truth from falsity?I would call you “sister” because we are in agreement as regards trinitarian doctrine, but I cannot join you as a brother in this call to an unhealty union with false doctrines leading to a flase concept of God.
Won't you reconsider your position?
Please, no one is asking you to “know it all.”
Quote (thethinker @ June 15 2009,10:33) Quote (Gene @ June 15 2009,06:19) Paladin……………….well put., many here have that same problem (indoctrination) They don't seem to be able to shake it off, the false teaching of so-call “Christian” organizations , people who don't love truth, God sends to them a deluding spirit in order for them to believe LIES. So if God Has sent them a deluding Spirit, what can anyone do? Just present what we believe as the truth of GOD and let the chips fall where they may, GOD is in charge of it all anyway. So don't get discouraged brother………IMO peace and love to you and yours……………..gene
Gene,
And you are not indoctrinated? Hear the Scriptures,Quote Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing! And every creature which is in heaven and on earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped (Rev. 5:12-14)
Both God and the Lamb receive EQUAL honor and glory and worship. The twenty four elders were men who fell down and worshiped God and the Lamb. Do you?
thinker
thinkerRaising Jesus to the “right hand” of the Father, is a promotion to the highest position in God's kingdom; in no way is it a position of equality.
Daniel was raised to the highest position in the kingdom of Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar, that did not make him an equal to the king.
Joseph was given highest position by Pharaoh, that did not make him an equal to Pharaoh.
God has no equal.Exd 8:10 And he said, To morrow. And he said, Be it according to thy word: that thou mayest know that there is none like unto the LORD our God.
Isa 40:25 To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.
1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.There was one God in the OT, and there is one God in the NT.
The idea of a triad god was given authority by Tertullian, one of the earliest Christian writers in the early third Century, however, the believe in a triad god is as old as the Egyptians.Georg
bodhitharta said:
Quote Does it not bother you that you deleted half a verse and simply left out: Revelation 5
14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever
Why did you leave out “him that liveth for ever and ever”?
bd,
The Greek text I have does not have that phrase “him that lives forever and ever.” If you insist that it be included then it is the Lamb who is being worshiped. For verse 13 says it is the Lamb who lives forever and ever.Thanks bro. You helped me out.
Appreciative,
thinker
bodhitharta said:
Quote Does it not bother you that you deleted half a verse and simply left out: Revelation 5
14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever
Why did you leave out “him that liveth for ever and ever”?
THAT MY FRIEND IS SPIRITUAL DISHONESTY. I do forgive you because I understand that you must brutally defend your position but I beg of you, do not kill the truth just to make yourself seem right, this is how corruptions have snuck in the bible already so please if you quote a verse please include the entire verse, they are numbered for a reason.
Either include the verse or leave the verse completely out as a partial verse is deceiving
God bless you! The final blow has already occured to anyone careful in reading the scriptures with the spirit of God upon them.
Your duty is towards God not doctrine, open your eyes and live in the truth.
bd,
The Greek text I have does not have the phrase “Him that lives forever and ever” in verse 14. You owe me an apology for accusing me of “spiritual dishonesty.” Verse 13 says that it is the Lamb who lives forever and ever. So if you insist then you must admit that it is the Lamb who is worshiped by the twenty-four elders. Again you owe me an apology.
thinker
bodhitharta said:
Quote Man is not made in the image of two persons. To say let us make man in our image is not to say us is God and Jesus because God speaks to the heavenly hosts.
bd,
Then who are the “US” in Genesis 1:26? The Father said that the Son created the heavens and the earth (Heb. 1:10). Wouldn't it be reasonable then to conclude that the Son is one of the “US” speaking?thinker
Quote (Paladin @ June 16 2009,00:37) Quote (Cindy @ June 15 2009,08:40) Gene I just despiece when people call others names. Stop doing that if you want to be a Christian. IMO nobody knows it all. All have fallen short of the glory of God.
Irene
Ah, sister, why are you so hard?Did not Jesus himself call the Pharisees “hipocryts?” Did he not scourge the money lenders from the temple? Did he not call them the way he saw them? Did not Paul accuse Peter to his face when he caused dissention in the church?
Peter spoke of false teachers and false prophets, wells without water, and clouds carried about by winds of doctrine.
What would you have us do? Call every false teacher
“Brother” as though we do not know truth from falsity?I would call you “sister” because we are in agreement as regards trinitarian doctrine, but I cannot join you as a brother in this call to an unhealty union with false doctrines leading to a flase concept of God.
Won't you reconsider your position?
Please, no one is asking you to “know it all.”
Paladin,
Take the log out of your own eye. For you deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. You said,Quote There is no verse in scripture that says Jesus Christ “came in the flesh.” THAT is a conclusion reached by theologians who do not know how to properly exegete the Greek. (“Did John say” thread page 2) John said that the one who denies that Jesus Christ came in the flesh is the antichrist.
thinker
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