The Trinity Doctrine

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (martian @ July 17 2008,00:58)

Quote (gollamudi @ July 16 2008,02:07) NIV Bible committee(team) says it is revealed by Jesus in Baptismal formula of Matt 28:19. Is it correct? It is very easily provable that Mathew was originally written in Hebrew. In order to undestand the meaning of this verse you must translate back to the hebrew. Disciple = Follower Name = Character trait Father = He who gives strength to the family. Son = offspring who is like the father Holy = Set asside for a special purpose Spirit = breath/ source of life Baptize = emmerse (Gr) With these understandings in place look at the verse again. Go therefore and make followers of all the nations, immersing them in the character traits of the one who gives strength to the family and of his offspring who is like Him  and of the special breath which is set asside for the purpose of being the source of life. The “Great Commission” is neither a Trinitarian proof text nor even a complete water baptism verse. Water baptism is only a shadow of the deeper emersion we are to have in the Character of God as shown through His son Jesus.

Hi martian

Sorry, that watered down translation doesnt cut it with all the other translations on biblegateway.com or blueletterbible.org.

Always trying to change the text with oppologetics.

WJ

[GeneBalthrop]

Martian…..good post, glad to see your back brother, we missed you insite in scriptures. If you get a chance go to the Satan Thread and read what has been aready posted and see what you think, would like to get your input.

Love and peace to you and yours…………gene

[gollamudi]

Hi Martian,
Welcome back to the thread “Trinity”. I appreciate your response on Matt 28:19.
But why did Apostles Baptise believers in the name of Jesus?
Thanks and blessings
Adam

[gollamudi]

This is for Pulivarthy.

[pulivarthy]

Quote (gollamudi @ July 23 2008,20:21)

This is for Pulivarthy.

dear adam,
see ecclesistes:4-12
sarath

[gollamudi]

Yes Sarath,
Do you mean Eccl 4:12 ?
“And if a man prevail against one, two shall withstand him: a threefold cord is not easily broken”.
What do you want say on this?

[NickHassan]

Hi and welcome p.
Ecc4
12And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.

Sorry but God is not a cord of any description and breaking God is not an option.

Trinity is written nowhere in scripture.
But it is so deeply embedded in tradition that it is hard to shake.
20 plus years of wrestling with a knowledge that it did not fit finally led to me letting it go.

[pulivarthy]

I mean same, adam.like threefold cord, god is threefold one appearing as a single cord.what do you say?
sarath

[pulivarthy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2008,21:55)

Hi and welcome p. Ecc4 12And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.   Sorry but God is not a cord of any description and breaking God is not an option. Trinity is written nowhere in scripture. But it is so deeply embedded in tradition that it is hard to shake. 20 plus years of wrestling with a knowledge that it did not fit finally led to me letting it go.

hi,nh,
thank you for welcoming me.I did not say God is Cord,but it only an analogy.
sarath pulivarthy

[Proclaimer]

Point taken.

But to assume God is this or that, without revelation of the Spirit and in contradiction to scripture is still making God into an image. It is us who should be his image. He is the potter and we are the clay as it is written.

[Proclaimer]

pulivarthy,

it is the nature of man to make God into an idol. A cord, a triangle, a statue, or a man seem to be common place.

The mind of man cannot fathom or work out God.

1 Corinthians 2:11
For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Scripture is one type of revelation from God. Scripture doesn't say any of the above hypothesis. In fact it contradicts such thoughts.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called  
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Who are we to argue with God has revealed in scripture?

[pulivarthy]

Quote (t8 @ July 23 2008,22:19)

pulivarthy, it is the nature of man to make God into an idol. A cord, a triangle, a statue, or a man seem to be common place. The mind of man cannot fathom or work out God. 1 Corinthians 2:11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Scripture is one type of revelation from God. Scripture doesn't say any of the above hypothesis. In fact it contradicts such thoughts. 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. Ephesians 4:4-6 4 there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called   5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Who are we to argue with God has revealed in scripture?

dear t8
you mean to say god'spirit is superior than god according to 1 corinth:2:11.

what about 'I and Father are one' in john's gospel?

sarath

[Proclaimer]

Quote (pulivarthy @ July 24 2008,21:28)

dear t8 you mean to say god'spirit is superior than god according to 1 corinth:2:11. what about 'I and Father are one' in john's gospel? sarath

Not sure what you mean, but that verse speaks of God's Spirit and man's spirit. My spirit is not another person it is part of me.

I and the Father are one is no different to the Church being one. We can be one too.

Anyway an expanded explanation for you below:

John 10:27-36
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all [1]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and the Father are one.
31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him,
32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods'?
35 If he called them `gods,' to whom the word of God came and the Scripture cannot be broken–
36 what about the one whom the Father set ; Apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, `I am God's Son'?

One thing that Trintarians point out with this verse are the words “I and the Father are one”, then later we see that the Jews thought that Jesus was claiming to be God. Therefore Trintarians claim that Jesus was claiming to be God and then the Jews got very upset about this claim. But on closer inspection, this part of scripture reveals the complete opposite. The irony here is that Jesus said earlier in verse 29, “My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all” and after the accusation, Jesus then reminds them of the usage of the word “gods” in the Old Testament. Jesus was actually referring to Psalms 82:6 (English-NIV) which reads:
“I said, `You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.'

After Jesus reminds the Jews of this, he then asks them in John 10:36:
…”Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's son'?”

Again this scripture reinforces the truth that Jesus is God's Son and we can see that he certainly did not claim to be the Almighty God, rather he said that he was the Son of God. If a person uses this verse to say that Jesus is the Almighty God then such a person is making the same error that the Jews made on this occasion and they are ignoring what Jesus said in defense of this.

The following scripture repeats the fact that the Father and Jesus are one. But it also says that we are one and yet no one is saying that we are God too, are they?

John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

[pulivarthy]

t8,
jesus was was doing what father used to doing before his begottenness , as a manly appearance according to john10:37
do not belive me unless i do what God does.
sarath p

[Irene]

Sarth p Welcome, do you not believe that the Father is greater then the Son? When you understand that God is a title used for so many, you will once and for all understand that the trinity doctrine is false. Even Satan is called God of this world. Also if you look at Ancient History you will find out who was the first to believe in that doctrine. The Apostles did not teach that doctrine. You will not find trinity anywhere in your Bible.
Peace and Love Irene
P.S. there are many explanation on this tread to explain how wrong the trinity is.

[NickHassan]

Hi E,

You said in another thread
“Does it not clearly say that Jesus was with God before the world was…and that He is the same God? God of Bible has three personalities though He is the same ONE God.

1.

God Himself
2.

His Word(Jesus)
3.

His Spirit(Holy Spirit)”

God has three personalities??
We are made in the image of God and we have only one.
Our sons have other personalities but we do not have a separate personality from our own spirit.

[GeneBalthrop]

To All…… in my opinion the trinitarian stand is more scriptural then the preexistence's, at least they understand where God said He (ALONE) and BY (HIMSELF) created the earth and the things in it. They are wrong saying Jesus is that God tho , but preexistences are wrong about Jesus preexisting as a being before his berth also. The truth lyes in the middle ground, Jesus was (foreordained) as Peter Said, The word Foreordained implies non existence prior to coming into existence as Peter said ,and also God said the Seed of the (WOMEN) would bruise the Head of the serpent not a preexistent being of some kind. And again God said He would bring him forth from a Israel decedent. For the Lord shall raise up from among your brothers a prophet like unto Me said Moses, not from some preexistent state as Both trinitarians and preexistences imply. IMO

Peace to you all………..gene

[gollamudi]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 31 2008,02:57)

To All…… in my opinion the trinitarian stand is more scriptural then the preexistence's, at least they understand where God said He (ALONE) and BY (HIMSELF) created the earth and the things in it. They are wrong saying Jesus is that God tho , but preexistences are wrong about Jesus preexisting as a being before his berth also. The truth lyes in the middle ground, Jesus was (foreordained) as Peter Said, The word Foreordained implies non existence prior to coming into existence as Peter said ,and also God said the Seed of the (WOMEN) would bruise the Head of the serpent not a preexistent being of some kind. And again God said He would bring him forth from a Israel decedent. For the Lord shall raise up from among your brothers a prophet like unto Me said Moses, not from some preexistent state as Both trinitarians and preexistences imply. IMO Peace to you all………..gene

Amen and it's a wonderful post to nullify the Trinity and Arianism.
Thanks and blessings
Adam

[gollamudi]

Hi All here is wonderful article on Trinity.

http://www.concordant.org/expohtml/GodAndChrist/TriuneGod.html

Please gothrough it with open mind.
Adam

[mhjohnson]

I thank GOD for heaven.net. I am so glad that there is someone else who understands who GOD and Jesus Christ are.

[Author]

Posts