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From another thread..I thought this was great
Trinity Test
Here is a simple but effective test.
Replace the word 'God' in the bible with 'Trinity' (or Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and then read a random collection of verses that have the word God in them.
E.g., John 14:1
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.
OK, so trust in the (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and also in me. That makes 4. Who is 'me', if the son is already mentioned?
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
So the Trinity so loved the world that the Trinity gave his son. That makes 4. Given this reasoning there must be 2 sons.
Colossians 1:3
We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,
So the Trinity is the Father of Jesus. But wait isn't Jesus part of the Trinity?
All verses that mention God and his son are rendered meaningless with a Trinitarian understanding. But Trinitarians do actually interpret God in these verses as the Father out of necessity, but not in the verses that do not mention the son.
E.g., 1 John 2:17
The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
A Trinitarian would most likely say that this was the Father, Son, & Spirit.
But they would also probably say that the following verse is only the Father.
Revelation 1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
Isn't that the weirdest thing. God is the Trinity except when the son is also mentioned. Coincidence or simply picking and choosing the meaning depending on what their itching ears want to hear?
I leave you with the following verse:
1 John 5
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.Quote (dirtyknections @ June 19 2008,12:58) Revelation 1:1…can someone who believes in the trinity explain this verse…
Hi DKQuote (dirtyknections @ June 20 2008,09:06)
The trinity is not taught in scripture…pre constantine Christians did not preach, teach, believe, or even know of the doctrine…neither did the apostles…History shows otherwise.
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 20 2008,09:06)
All scholars agree on these facts…therefore I choose to not add to the word of GOD…the trinity to me is as “unconceived yet believed” as the “doctrine” that “the devil is not real..he is only evil within”..or “all will be saved”…Your opinion.
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 20 2008,09:06)
This to all trinitarians on the sight…explain Revelation 1:1How could Jesus while in Heaven be given knowledge he did not know..if he is GOD the Father?
Does Rev 1:1 tell you “When” Yeshua received the Revelation that he gave to the churches?
Even you believe that he preexisted and yet “Grew in grace and in the knowledge of God”.
All you have to do is put this with Phil 2 and these verses…
Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; John 13:3
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. John 16:15
Then Paul says…
In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Col 2:3
All that Yeshua emptied himself of when he left the Glory that he shared with the Father in the form of God has now returned to him. Yeshua having received again all the Power and Glory and wisdom and knowledge of God that he created the universe by, now gives John the Revelation.
Or do you think that when Yeshua was born a little baby he had all the knowledge and wisdom he had before he came in the flesh? You do believe in his preexistence dont you?
So DK, unless you can show me “when” he received the Revelation you simply make another ambiguous attempt to prove the Trinitarian view as false.
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 20 2008,13:42) From another thread..I thought this was great Trinity Test
Here is a simple but effective test.
Replace the word 'God' in the bible with 'Trinity' (or Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and then read a random collection of verses that have the word God in them.
E.g., John 14:1
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.
OK, so trust in the (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and also in me. That makes 4. Who is 'me', if the son is already mentioned?
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
So the Trinity so loved the world that the Trinity gave his son. That makes 4. Given this reasoning there must be 2 sons.
Colossians 1:3
We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,
So the Trinity is the Father of Jesus. But wait isn't Jesus part of the Trinity?
All verses that mention God and his son are rendered meaningless with a Trinitarian understanding. But Trinitarians do actually interpret God in these verses as the Father out of necessity, but not in the verses that do not mention the son.
E.g., 1 John 2:17
The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
A Trinitarian would most likely say that this was the Father, Son, & Spirit.
But they would also probably say that the following verse is only the Father.
Revelation 1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
Isn't that the weirdest thing. God is the Trinity except when the son is also mentioned. Coincidence or simply picking and choosing the meaning depending on what their itching ears want to hear?
I leave you with the following verse:
1 John 5
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
Yes of course presto!Anyone can change words in the scritpures and make them say anything they want.
Heres one.
Just replace the word God with the Father.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty Father, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O Father, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. Heb 1:8
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my Father.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 20 2008,14:01) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 20 2008,13:42) From another thread..I thought this was great Trinity Test
Here is a simple but effective test.
Replace the word 'God' in the bible with 'Trinity' (or Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and then read a random collection of verses that have the word God in them.
E.g., John 14:1
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.
OK, so trust in the (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and also in me. That makes 4. Who is 'me', if the son is already mentioned?
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
So the Trinity so loved the world that the Trinity gave his son. That makes 4. Given this reasoning there must be 2 sons.
Colossians 1:3
We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,
So the Trinity is the Father of Jesus. But wait isn't Jesus part of the Trinity?
All verses that mention God and his son are rendered meaningless with a Trinitarian understanding. But Trinitarians do actually interpret God in these verses as the Father out of necessity, but not in the verses that do not mention the son.
E.g., 1 John 2:17
The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
A Trinitarian would most likely say that this was the Father, Son, & Spirit.
But they would also probably say that the following verse is only the Father.
Revelation 1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
Isn't that the weirdest thing. God is the Trinity except when the son is also mentioned. Coincidence or simply picking and choosing the meaning depending on what their itching ears want to hear?
I leave you with the following verse:
1 John 5
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
Yes of course presto!Anyone can change words in the scritpures and make them say anything they want.
Heres one.
Just replace the word God with the Father.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty Father, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O Father, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. Heb 1:8
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my Father.
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 20 2008,07:39) Quote (gollamudi @ June 20 2008,06:46) I was believing the Trinity and still I feel it is better than any Arian view of making Jesus a god or demi-god or an angel etc. Here is the interpretation Rev 1:1
1 “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show his servants what must happen soon. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John”
God gave the revelation to Jesus and he inturn made known to John his servant through his angel.
you are free to believe that..but I still would like someone who believes in the trinity to explain how this scripture is possible in light of the trinity
Hi dk.They cannot.
They will say that the God spoken of here is the Father, but in other verses it is the Trinity. It is up to them what they decide.
In other words they pick and choose the option that is least offensive to their Trinity/Babylonian doctrine.
But when scripture says theos/elohim, then we should let scripture say which one. e.g., the theos of this age, the most high theos.
Scripture has the last word according to people who respect scripture as inspired, but not all have this respect.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 20 2008,14:01) Heres one. Just replace the word God with the Father.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty Father, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O Father, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. Heb 1:8
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my Father.
Nice try, and incase some fall for your seductive words, I should point out that theos, elohim, and other similar words can refer to the Most High God, the son, sons, judges, angels, idols, and Satan. You already know this but conveniently neglected to mention it.So it isn't as simple as you make out.
You first need to determine which theos is being identified. If it is the Most High God, then you can replace that with the Father because there is one God the Father who is over all.
If it is not, then you need to look at the description. e.g., the theos of this age, is not YHWH.
Quote (t8 @ June 20 2008,21:07) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 20 2008,14:01) Here’s one. Just replace the word God with the Father.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty Father, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O Father, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. Heb 1:8
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my Father.
Nice try, and incase some fall for your seductive words, I should point out that theos, elohim, and other similar words can refer to the Most High God, the son, sons, judges, angels, idols, and Satan. You already know this but conveniently neglected to mention it.So it isn't as simple as you make out.
You first need to determine which theos is being identified. If it is the Most High God, then you can replace that with the Father because there is one God the Father who is over all.
If it is not, then you need to look at the description. e.g., the theos of this age, is not YHWH.
t8Yes we all know you believe in more than one god.
Even though there are only “One True God' mentioned in scripture, and all others are “so called gods”.
Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. 1 Cor 8:4-6
Do you think that Paul in mentioning the Lord Jesus Christ in the same breath meant that Jesus was one of those “so-called gods”?
After all he did call Jesus God/Theos here…
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:13
Remember it is Jesus who is going to appear not the Father. Besides the Grandville Sharp rule proves that the Great God and our Saviour here is Yeshua.
All you have to do is look and see that Paul was looking for Yeshua and not the Father…
That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 1 Tim 6:14
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 1 Tim 2:10
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. 2Tim 4:8
Even Peter looked for his appearing…
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 1 Peter 1:7
Do you think that John considered Yeshua as being one of those “so-called gods”?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Jn 1:1
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,,who is at the Father's side, has made him known. Jn 1:18
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jn 20:28
Can you determine “who the theos is in this verse”?
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 1 Jn 5:20
Do you think John thought Yeshua was a so-called god?
How about the writer of Hebrews…
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Heb 1:8
No, John, Peter or Paul or any of the followers of Yeshua were Polytheist, nor were they Henotheist. They were true Monotheist that exalted the Lord Jesus as deity, one God with the Father and the Holy Spirit, and not as a so-called god.
Quote (t8 @ June 20 2008,21:07) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 20 2008,14:01) Heres one. Just replace the word God with the Father.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty Father, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O Father, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. Heb 1:8
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my Father.
Nice try, and incase some fall for your seductive words, I should point out that theos, elohim, and other similar words can refer to the Most High God, the son, sons, judges, angels, idols, and Satan. You already know this but conveniently neglected to mention it.So it isn't as simple as you make out.
You first need to determine which theos is being identified. If it is the Most High God, then you can replace that with the Father because there is one God the Father who is over all.
If it is not, then you need to look at the description. e.g., the theos of this age, is not YHWH.
Quote (t8 @ June 20 2008,21:07) the theos of this age, is not YHWH. Really? The God of this age is not YHWH?
For the believer there is but one God, and it sure isnt satan.
wj….Interesting, you say, but for the believer there is but (ONE) GOD and yet you break up this (ONE) GOD unto (three) Gods. Isn't that a contradiction of some kind.
Every thing you quote goes against your belief in three Gods, Even trough you try to say there one in the same your trinitarian teachings present them as (GOD THE FATHER) (GOD THE SON) (GOD THE HOLY GHOST) three separate and distinct God's and at the same time say they are One and the Same.
Even your own scholars say the Don't Know How that is, but you seem to know, why don't your explain it to your own Scholars so they can understand it then. Maybe you aught to start there first.
peace to you ……….gene
Hi,
Satan's stolen kingdom is only of this dark earth. It is the plan of God that the kingdom of heaven shall be extended to include earth -all under Christ-under God.
Philippians 2:10
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,Colossians 1:20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.Ephesians 1:10
to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.Ephesians 3:10
His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms,Hi GB,
Read for yourself.
I do not think Satan is called 'god of this age” but is called 'god of this world”Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 21 2008,04:47) wj….Interesting, you say, but for the believer there is but (ONE) GOD and yet you break up this (ONE) GOD unto (three) Gods. Isn't that a contradiction of some kind. Every thing you quote goes against your belief in three Gods, Even trough you try to say there one in the same your trinitarian teachings present them as (GOD THE FATHER) (GOD THE SON) (GOD THE HOLY GHOST) three separate and distinct God's and at the same time say they are One and the Same.
Even your own scholars say the Don't Know How that is, but you seem to know, why don't your explain it to your own Scholars so they can understand it then. Maybe you aught to start there first.
peace to you ……….gene
GBCan you name “One” thing that is not plural in nature?
All creation reveals the Glory of God.
Plurality of unity. But your Unitarian glasses will not let you see this
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 21 2008,11:01) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 21 2008,04:47) wj….Interesting, you say, but for the believer there is but (ONE) GOD and yet you break up this (ONE) GOD unto (three) Gods. Isn't that a contradiction of some kind. Every thing you quote goes against your belief in three Gods, Even trough you try to say there one in the same your trinitarian teachings present them as (GOD THE FATHER) (GOD THE SON) (GOD THE HOLY GHOST) three separate and distinct God's and at the same time say they are One and the Same.
Even your own scholars say the Don't Know How that is, but you seem to know, why don't your explain it to your own Scholars so they can understand it then. Maybe you aught to start there first.
peace to you ……….gene
GBCan you name “One” thing that is not plural in nature?
All creation reveals the Glory of God.
Plurality of unity. But your Unitarian glasses will not let you see this
THere is only one “Worshipping Jesus”
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