- This topic has 18,301 replies, 269 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 5 months ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 30 2008,12:50) Hi GB,
So the apostles were fools in Acts as they obeyed a more straightforward understanding?
Jesus and his disciples baptised in water.
No the apostles were not fools as you insinuate i am saying, but they were immature Christians at first and as time went on they changed there view as in the case of Paul as the Spirit was showing them.Things such as baptisms and circumcisions and the law and faiths. Paul concluded that there is only one Faith, one circumcision made without Hands and one Baptism. Don't think the apostles had it altogether when they started. They had a lot to learn and did learn as they went along.
IMO….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 30 2008,13:25) Nick……….What was Paul saying when He said there only one baptism, which one is it then, baptism with water, or baptism with the Spirit. You can be baptized with water and only get wet, but if you are baptized with holy Spirit you will change. It's like circumcision of the flesh, you just get bloody but if you experience circumcision of the Heart you change.
Nick i think you need to reevaluate some things………..gene
Hi Gene, nice post. What a way to explain the 'One Baptism'
I am blessed by this. This one Baptism that paul was talking is about the Holy Spirit Baptism which was promised by God confirmed by John the Baptist and given by Jesus after his ascention.
Peace to you
AdamQuote (Gene Balthrop @ May 30 2008,13:25) Nick……….What was Paul saying when He said there only one baptism, which one is it then, baptism with water, or baptism with the Spirit. You can be baptized with water and only get wet, but if you are baptized with holy Spirit you will change. It's like circumcision of the flesh, you just get bloody but if you experience circumcision of the Heart you change.
Nick i think you need to reevaluate some things………..gene
Hi GB,
BAPTISM unqualified relates to water baptism.
God is not a God of confusion but of peace.Nor is scripture written with unnecessary repetition but order.
Look at the context.
Eph4
“1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. ”
Why would baptism in the Spirit come after the mention of ONE SPIRIT?
If you obeyed this injunction you would grasp these things perhaps? You can then SEE THE KINGDOM.
Nick…….I really don't understand at all what your talking about.
The baptism of water was a (physical Cleansing process) that started long before John the baptized and was a ritual required by the law of clean and unclean things.
But what did John Say I indeed Baptize with Water (BUT) He who comes after Me (JESUS) will (BAPTIZE) with Spirit and Fire. There is two Baptism's mentioned Here, which one was the one Paul was talking about, when he said there is (ONLY) ONE BAPTISM.
Physical baptism does not take away the sins of the flesh but the Spiritual Baptism Does take away sins of the Flesh by the transforming of our Minds through the operation of the spirit, and that has nothing to do with water whatsoever.
Nick…….you can look at things from a spiritual stand point or a Physical one. Your seeing the Physical in this matter, not the spiritual.
imo……….gene
Hi GB,
The vessel must be made clean and God does so in response to our humble repentance and the sign of water baptism. Of course our sovereign God has at times given the blessing of the Spirit when the Word has cleansed men but this is the ususal order of events shown in Acts.Acts 8
5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
1Peter3
21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:Nick……….Peter is plainly showing us that water Baptism which was considered washing away the filth of the flesh does not really cleans us but the Baptism of Christ does cleans us not just outwardly , but inwardly. A baptism not of water but of Spirit.
IMO………….gene
Hi GB,
The Spirit of God does not have the role of washing us.
The Spirit of God is Holy and blesses us
The Spirit sanctifies us.
1Cor6
11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.It says one baptism. So which is it?
Water baptism or baptism of the Spirit or something else?
If it is one then it cannot be the other. So which one is being spoken of?
Am I understanding this correctly?If I had to choose one of the baptisms to partake of and then meet my maker, I would honestly have to choose being filled with the Spirit of God. Of course that doesn't make it the baptism being spoken of, but I think that God can only dwell in a clean vessel and that anyone including an unrepentant murder could be water baptised. So I would personally choose to be filled with the Spirit.
Of course scripture records words like “be baptised and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”. So is that the one baptism? Water and the result is the Spirit?
Either way this is argued, I think we can agree that a new believer responding truthfully to the true gospel should be baptised in water and then will be able to receive the Spirit.
I agree with you T8,
It is the Baptism in the Spirit finally which sanctifies us from sin.
Peace to you
AdamTo All……….remember the word Baptize means to emerge in, but as Peter later said in His ministry, that baptism of removal of the filth of the flesh or plain physical baptism was not the what count, but the Baptism that cleanses us from sin does, which is being emerged in Spirit.
There are physical shadows of spiritual things but the spiritual things are the reality, not the physical.
IMO……………..gene
Hi GB,
Water baptism clothes us with Christ.
Gal3
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.Some at the wedding feast were thrown out because their clothing was incorrect.
Nick……….let me paraphrase it for you…..Because as many of you as have been Baptized into (The anointing)or Spirit, have put on (the Anointing)or Spirit, That is the exact meaning of what it says. Notice it does not say Jesus the person does it. Paul was talking about the same anointing that was in Jesus (who was also anointed), with the same Spirit. And if you don't have that anointing in you you are simply non of His.
Your right some didn't have the Spirit of God in them. And they weren't clothed either.
IMO…………gene
Hi GB,
You are so sure of your interpretations but they fly in the face of scripture.
Gal3 speaks of those who are baptised into Christ. Only God knows who they are.
Acts 22
16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.Men cannot baptise themselves or others in the Spirit.
Jn1
33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.Jesus baptises in the Spirit.
Gal4
4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
The Spirit baptism does not make us sons of God but the Spirit is given to those who have become sons by their repentant faith and water baptism into Christ.
Then comes the inner transformation by the work of that Spirit.
Gal4
19My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,Nick……….it's becoming clear you don't know the difference between Jesus an the Spirit that was in Him the Word Christ Means (the Anointed,) now what do you think He was anointed with, was it His self or the Spirit of God. And if you don't think the spirit of God is what changes you and gives you a new nature you really don't understand conversion at all. Jesus is call (the Christ) do you know what that means.
What do you think the Spirit of His Son is, is it not God the Fathers Spirit that was in Jesus or do you think Jesus had His own special spirit that we recieve from Him apart form God.
You seen to think you repent you way into salvation on your own, Free Will, not giving the Spirit of God the Credit for anything. Tell me what do you think comes first, repentance, forgiveness, cleansing, tell me the order of these things .
IMO……gene
Nick……. in Acts1:5 what do you do with this, Jesus said “for John truly baptized with water, (but you), shall be (baptized) with the HOLY SPIRIT not many days from now. Why did Jesus say it this way if John's water baptism was what counted , so now we have, not only did John himself say that there was a baptism of Spirit and fire sent by Jesus, but Jesus also said it. So which baptism was Paul talking about when He said there is (ONE BAPTISM) then.
Nick look i am not trying to discourage you brother i believe you are trying to serve God the best way you can. So i am sorry if i heart your feeling and if i Have please forgive me.
Love and peace to you and yours…………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 02 2008,15:37) Nick……….it's becoming clear you don't know the difference between Jesus an the Spirit that was in Him the Word Christ Means (the Anointed,) now what do you think He was anointed with, was it His self or the Spirit of God. And if you don't think the spirit of God is what changes you and gives you a new nature you really don't understand conversion at all. Jesus is call (the Christ) do you know what that means. What do you think the Spirit of His Son is, is it not God the Fathers Spirit that was in Jesus or do you think Jesus had His own special spirit that we recieve from Him apart form God.
You seen to think you repent you way into salvation on your own, Free Will, not giving the Spirit of God the Credit for anything. Tell me what do you think comes first, repentance, forgiveness, cleansing, tell me the order of these things .
IMO……gene
Hi GB,
You are lost in a maze somewhere if you think that is what I believe.We are transformed by the Spirit of Christ, given from God to him, and poured into us from above equipping us for service in his body.
But that is not what makes us sons of God. That is the anointing given to us just as Christ was anointed at the Jordan after his baptism in water.
We follow him.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
