The Trinity Doctrine

Participant

To ambassador of Christ,

I am currently a oneness believer. But for a few years now I've been studying the oneness/trinity debate. Such scriptures as Hebrews 1:8-10 seem to show more than just one person. On the other hand, I struggle with believing in the trinity, because John 4:24 says ” God is a spirit…..”

Yet we can't have the Father and the Holy Spirit as 2 spirits, because John 4:24 declares only one Spirit. Also, how is the Father the Father of Jesus, when Mary was over shadowed by the Holy Ghost? Jesus didn't have 2 Fathers

May 10, 2008 at 12:10 am#108262

942767

Participant

Quote (gsilva72 @ May 10 2008,09:36)

To ambassador of Christ,

Hi:

The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit.

Quote

1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

May 10, 2008 at 1:31 am#108263

Participant

1. Is the word trinity in the Bible? No.
2. Does the Bible say that there are three persons in the Godhead? No.
3. Does the Bible speak of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Yes
4. Do these titles as used in Matthew 28:19 mean that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead? No, they refer to three offices, roles, or relationships to humanity.
5. Does the Bible use the word three in reference to God? Only one verse in the entire Bible does so–1 John 5:7. It speaks of the father, the Word (instead of Son), and the Holy Ghost, and it concludes by saying, “These three are one.”
6. Does the Bible use the word one in reference to God? Yes, many times. For example, see Zechariah 14:9; Malachi 2:10; Matthew 23:9; Mark 12:29, 32; John 8:41; 10:30; Romans 3:30; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galations 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5; James 2:19.
7. Can the mystery of the Godhead be understood? Yes. Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9; 1 Timothy 3:16.
8. Does a Christian only have one Heavenly Father? Yes. Matthew 23:9.
9. Then why did Jesus say to Philip, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:9)? Because Jesus is the express image of God's person. Hebrews 1:3. The Greek word for person in this verse literally means “substance.”
10. Does the Bible say that there are two persons in the Godhead? No.
11. Does the Bible say that all the Godhead is revealed in one person? Yes, in Jesus Christ. II Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:19; 2:9; Hebrews 1:3.
12. Is the mystery of the Deity hidden from some people? Yes. Luke 10:21-22.
13. Who is the Father? The Father is the one God, particularly as revealed in parental relationship to humanity. Deuteronomy 32:6; Malachi 2:10.
14. Where was God the Father while Jesus was on earth? The Father was in Christ. John 14:10; II Corinthians 5:19. He was also in Heaven, for God is omnipresent.
15. Did the prophet Isaiah say that Jesus would be the Father? Yes. Isaiah 9:6; 63:16.
16. When God said, “Let us make man in our image” (Genesis 1:26), was He speaking to another person in the Godhead? No. Isaiah 44:24; Malachi 2:10.
17. How many of God's qualities were in Christ? All. Colossians 2:9.
18. How may we see the God who sent Jesus into the world? By seeing Jesus. John 12:44-45; 14:9.
19. Does the Bible say that Jesus is the Almighty? Yes. Revelation 1:8.
20. Whom do some designate as the first person in the trinity? God the Father.
21. Whom do some designate as the last person in the trinity? The Holy Ghost. But Jesus said that He was the first and the last. Revelation 1:17-18.
22. How many persons did John see sitting on the throne in Heaven? One. Revelation 4:2.
23. If Jesus is the first and the last, why did God say in Isaiah 44:6 that He was the first and the last? Because Jesus is the God of the Old Testament incarnate.
24. Did Jesus tell Satan that God alone should be worshiped? Yes. Matthew 4:10.
25. Does the devil believe in more than one God? No. James 2:19.
26. Does the Bible say that God, who is the Word, was made flesh? Yes. John 1:1, 14.
27. For what purpose was God manifested in the flesh? To save sinners. Hebrews 2:9, 14.
28. Was Jesus God manifested in the flesh? Yes. I Timothy 3:16.
29. Could Jesus have been on earth and in heaven at the same time? Yes. John 3:13.
30. Does the Bible say that there is but one Lord? Yes. Isaiah 45:18; Ephesians 4:5.
31. Does the Bible say that Christ is the Lord? Yes. Luke 2:11.
32. Does the Bible say that the Lord is God? Yes. 1 Kings 18:39; Zechariah 14:5; Acts 2:39; Revelation 19:1.
33. How could the church belong to Jesus (Matthew 16:18) and yet be the church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32)? Because Jesus is God in the flesh.
34. Will God give His glory to another? No. Isaiah 42:8.
35. Was there a God formed before Jehovah, or will there be one formed after? No. Isaiah 43:10.
36. What is one thing that God does not know? Another God. Isaiah 44:8
37. What is one thing that God cannot do? Lie. Titus 1:2.
38. How many Gods should we know? Only one. Hosea 13:4.
39. How many names has the Lord? One. Zechariah 14:9.
40. Is it good to think upon the name of the Lord? Yes. Malachi 3:16.
41. Does the Bible say that God alone treads upon the waves of the sea? Yes. Job 9:8
42. Why, then, was Jesus able to walk upon the Sea of Galilee (Matthew 14:25)? Because He is God the Creator. Colossians 1:16.
43. Is God the only one who can forgive sin? Yes. Isaiah 43:25; Mark 2:7.
44. Why, then, could Jesus forgive sin in Mark 2:5-11? Because He is God the Savior.
45. Is Jesus the true God? Yes. 1 John 5:20.
46. If God and the Holy Ghost are two separate persons, which was the Father of Christ? Matthew 1:20 says that the Holy Ghost was the Father, while Romans 15:6, II Corinthians 11:31, and Ephesians 1:3 say that God was the Father. There is no contradiction when we realize that God the Father and the Holy Ghost are one and the same Spirit. Matthew 10:20; Ephesians 4:4; 1 Corinthians 3:16.
47. When Paul asked the Lord who He was, what was the answer? “I am Jesus.” Acts 9:5
48. While Stephen was dying, did he call God Jesus? Yes. Acts 7:59
49. Did Thomas ever call Jesus God? Yes. John 20:28.
50. How could Jesus be the Savior, when God the Father said in Isaiah 43:11, “Beside me there is no saviour”? Because “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.” II Corinthians 5:19.
51. Does the Bible say that Jesus was God with us? Yes. Matthew 1:23.
52. Did Jesus ever say, “I and my Father are one”? Yes. John 10:30.
53. Can it be proved scripturally that Jesus and the Father are one in the same sense that husband and wife are one? No. The Godhead was never compared to the relationship of a husband and wife. Jesus identified Himself with the Father in a way that husband and wife cannot be identified with each other. John 14:9-11.
54. Does the Bible say that there is only one wise God? Yes. Jude 25.
55. Does the Bible call the Holy Ghost a second or third person in the Godhead? No. The Holy Ghost is the one Spirit of God, the one God Himself at work in our lives. John 4:24; 1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19; 12:13.
56. Can trinitarians show that three divine persons were present when Jesus was baptized by John? Absolutely not. The one, omnipresent God used three simultaneous manifestations. Only one divine person was present–Jesus Christ the Lord.
57. Then what were the other two of whom trinitarians speak? One was a voice from heaven; the other was the Spirit of God in the form of a dove. Matthew 3:16-17.
58. What did the voice say at Jesus' baptism? “Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Mark 1:11. As the Son of God, Jesus was the one God incarnate.
59. Does the Bible say that God shed His blood and that God laid down His life for us? Yes. Acts 20:28; I John 3:16. God was able to do this because He had taken upon Himself a human body.
60. The Bible says that God is coming back with all His saints (Zechariah 14:5) and also that Jesus is coming back with all His saints (1 Thessalonians 3:13). Are two coming back? No. Only one is coming back–our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Titus 3:13

May 10, 2008 at 4:07 am#108264

Participant

Tonycb

I suppose you are a oneness believer as well. Those questions/answers came from David Bernard's Book. I donot agree with all his views. First of all, the Father does have a conversation with the son. Read Hebrews 1 :8-10. Another thing, Jesus was fully man and God. Bernard makes Jesus sound like he has a split personality. Jesus didn't just speak as flesh one moment and then God the next. Besides, flesh cannot pray. Now you do agree that Jesus is fully man and God, correct. When he prayed, he prayed as fully man and God!

May 10, 2008 at 5:41 pm#108283

Participant

Tonycb……The problem here is adding words to what the actual text says. Like where it says me and the Father are one. That can be taken several different way, some take it as Jesus saying he is God the Father Himself, but if you consider put other scriptures, it becomes obvious Jesus did not mean He was God, He meant he was in one agreement with the Father.

The scriptures you quoted are full of text (forcing), you can make the bible support almost any false doctrine you want by forcing text by adding thought that isn't there. Thats where all the confusion comes from, and why we have a thousand or so different denominations. We should not try to force text by saying it says thens it doesn't specifically say.

The more i examine what people are saying the more i see them forcing text to fit there beliefs, by adding a word or thought that isn't specifically said, and while this can be done to give a stand on something it needs to be backed up by at least two other scriptures. Other wise it just suppositions and should not be taken as truth.

Peace to you…………..gene

May 10, 2008 at 9:27 pm#108285

Participant

Gene Balthrop / gsilva72

ONE GOD

Deuteronomy 4:35 To you it was shown, that you might know that the LORD Himself is God; there is none other besides Him.

Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!

Deuteronomy 32:39 ‘Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.

2 Samuel 7:22 Therefore You are great, O Lord GOD.[a] For there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

1 Kings 8:60 that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God; there is no other.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD shall come with a strong hand, And His arm shall rule for Him; Behold, His reward is with Him, And His work before Him.

Isaiah 41:4 Who has performed and done it, Calling the generations from the beginning? ‘ I, the LORD, am the first; And with the last I am He.’”

Isaiah 43:10, 11 “ You are My witnesses,” says the LORD, “ And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.

Isaiah 44:5, 6 One will say, ‘I am the LORD’s’; Another will call himself by the name of Jacob; Another will write with his hand, ‘The LORD’s,’ And name himself by the name of Israel. “ Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘ I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God.

Isaiah 45:5-12 I am the LORD, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me, That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting That there is none besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’ “ Rain down, you heavens, from above, And let the skies pour down righteousness; Let the earth open, let them bring forth salvation, And let righteousness spring up together. I, the LORD, have created it. “ Woe to him who strives with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth! Shall the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’ Or shall your handiwork say, ‘He has no hands’? Woe to him who says to his father, ‘What are you begetting?’ Or to the woman, ‘What have you brought forth?’” Thus says the LORD, The Holy One of Israel, and his Maker: “ Ask Me of things to come concerning My sons; And concerning the work of My hands, you command Me. I have made the earth, And created man on it. I—My hands—stretched out the heavens, And all their host I have commanded.

Isaiah 45:18-23 For thus says the LORD, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: “ I am the LORD, and there is no other. I have not spoken in secret, In a dark place of the earth; I did not say to the seed of Jacob, ‘ Seek Me in vain’; I, the LORD, speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. “ Assemble yourselves and come; Draw near together, You who have escaped from the nations. They have no knowledge, Who carry the wood of their carved image, And pray to a god that cannot save. Tell and bring forth your case;Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me. “ Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath.

Isaiah 46:9-11 Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,’ Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.

Matthew 1:21-23 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins.” So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

John 1:1-14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 10:22-38 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.” Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.” Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’? If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe[c] that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”

John 12:45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.

John 14:7-9 “If you had known Me, you would have known
My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Romans 9:5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Philippians 2:5-10 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Colossians 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God[a] was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.

Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.

Revelation 21:6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.

Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

Revelation 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.” Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

Hope this is not forcing!

2 Peter 1:21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Colossians 2:8-9 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

May 11, 2008 at 1:16 am#108286

Participant

Oneness doctrine is the wrong response to the Trinity doctrine.

Scripture should be the response.

How does Oneness doctrine compare to 1 John 4:2 for example?
This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

By saying that the Father came in the flesh could only lead one to deny that Jesus came in the flesh.

If Oneness Doctrine were true, then 1 John 4:2 would mean that we have to believe that the Father who came in the Flesh (Jesus as they say) then came in the flesh. So he has 2 layers of flesh according to that interpretation.

True faith requires that one believes that Jesus came in the flesh. Oneness Doctrine teaches another Jesus and makes a mockery of 1 John 4:2 by rendering it not only illogical, but makes that scripture out as a lie.

Oneness followers say that Jesus is the Father in flesh and teach that when Jesus said “not my will but your will”, that that was the flesh talking to the Eternal Spirit (the Father). So by their words, they demonstrate that they and the spirit in them is not of God, according to 1 John 4:2 at least.

If anyone wishes to talk about this further, then we should an appropriate discussion.

I will bump the Oneness discussion.

May 11, 2008 at 1:35 am#108287

Participant

Oh, it is already near the top of the list in this (Truth and Tradition) forum.

May 11, 2008 at 1:37 am#108288

Participant

T8/TonyCB 1 John 4:2 “Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: I donot deny that Jesus has come in the flesh. T8, You claim that Jesus is not God when 1 Timothy 3:16 declares clearly that he is. TonyCB, I disagree with you becuase 1 Timothy 3:16 never says that the Father was manifested in the flesh! It says that God was manifested in the flesh! By the way TonyCB, it doesn't say in 1 Timothy 3:16 ” Great is the mystery of the Godhead! It says great is the mystery of Godliness! This is part of the reason why the Trinity doctrine is starting look a little more attractive to me.

May 11, 2008 at 2:10 pm#108289

Participant

May 11, 2008 at 2:11 pm#108290

Participant

God was manifested in flesh. One God, not three or three person in the Godhead.

May 11, 2008 at 6:24 pm#108291

Participant

t8 We should not be led just by one scripture but the whole Word of God.

May 11, 2008 at 9:00 pm#108292

Participant

I agree with Philippians 2:5 fully. This is why Jesus is still God, yet not equal with the Father. 1 Corinthians 11:3 says” But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” Colossian 1:15 declares “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:” Note: an image is not the same as the original as was mention earlier.”

May 11, 2008 at 11:51 pm#108293

Participant

tonycd……I all the scriptures you quoted , no where do you quote Jesus or any apostle or anyone else as saying (Jesus is GOD the Father) I mean no where is that spicifically said, In fact the opposit is stated even by Jesus himself. I am not going theough hundreds scriptures that disprove what your saying, but ill just give you some to answer if you can.

“the son of (man) came not to do His will But the (WILL) of Him who sent Him”,
interesting it looks like there two wills involved then i guess there must be two beings Jesus is speaking about here. His Will and another Will thats (NOT)his.
_

“why call (ME) Good, there is (ONLY ONE) who is Good, and thats GOD”. Seems like Jesus knew the difference between Him and God, don't you think.
_

“For thou art the (ONLY TRUE GOD)”, Let's see, the word (ONLY) i think still means (NO OTHER) and the word (TRUE) still means the real, so all others must not be the true God.
_
Jesus Said ” the words I am telling you are NOT (MY) WORDS, but the words of (HIM) who sent me. If Jesus were the one and only God as you say, surely His words would have been His wouldn't they.
___

From the quotes above< Jesus sure didn't seem to think He was God Almighty, did He. What you are doing is forcing the text to say what is does not say, You quote texts that show there is only ONE GOD, But then you transfer that one God as Jesus because it fits you ideologies, but the scriptures do not make that transition, you do. Don't you think if Jesus was almighty God Himself, Him or his disciples would simply stated that Fact, with out any manipulation of scripture being involved. Your doing the same thing as People who say in John 1:1 that the word (WORD) means (Jesus) instead of whats really written. You simple Just change the text to fit you doctrines. What goes against your doctrines you simply don't address. Well i Just gave you some of many to work on.

IMO……….gene

May 12, 2008 at 12:15 am#108294

Participant

gsilva72…> right to image something is (NOT) the same as What being imaged, the word image means to mirror as when we look in a mirror and see our reflection, the reflection is an image of us but it is NOT us, but reflects us. The same is true with God, He wants us to image Him, not think we are Him, Big Difference. But Man doesn't want to image God they want to be a GOD>so they first started making false Gods out of stone and wood then they Made God of themselves through false teachings like so called (FREE WILLS) and turning Jesus into a GOD, Adam and Eve didn't want to image God, they wanted to Be a GOD. Mankind still is trying to be a God, sitting in the temple of God displaying themselves and Jesus as GOD'S, Whom the Lord will destroy with the brightness of His coming.
The whole trinitarian teaching is nothing more then trying to make more then one God, by forming a so Called Godhead a private group of three beings and is nothing more them Pure Heresy, and will be destroyed when Jesus returns.2Thes2 explains this.

IMO……….gene

May 12, 2008 at 3:03 am#108295

Participant

Gene- I'd believe that, except everytime Jesus is refered to as “God” it is with a “G” not a “g”. If Jesus were just a demi-god the word “God” would be with a “g” everytime it was refered to Jesus. I have to go by what the scripture says. you can't just read the text for what it says. You have to look how certain letters are written. ie “G” or “g” There is a reason they were written that way.:)

May 12, 2008 at 4:26 am#108296

Participant

gsilva…..> The word God either upper case or lower case isn't important, whats important is the meanning of the word. According to Jeff Benner in His book, The mechanical translation of Genesis, the word used for God is Elohim , and should be translated as (POWERS) and the word LORD, should be translated as (HE EXISTS), So if we say the Lord God, we are saying (HE EXISTS WITH POWERS) The word Elohim is not a person and by it self simple Means (POWERS) a plural form of Power. Every one who has power of any Kind recieved it from God, no matter who and no matter how much power it's still Elohim (god or God) and equals Powers. When Jesus told the Pharisees does it not say you are gods, He was quoting a scripture in the old testement where the Lord God said to the leaders of Israel they were Gods because they had the (POWERS) to control the people and they were not using it render righteous Judgements to the people, they were over. So you see little god or Big GOD its still powers not persons, we know all powers comes from one Lord God and is destributed to all, from one Source and thats God the Father, Who is the Lord God, or,(He exists with Powers).

IMO………….gene

May 12, 2008 at 4:38 am#108297

Participant

It must matter, otherwise if it didn't, then why take the time to distinguish between “g” and “G”? If it doesn't matter, then everything should either be written as “g” or “G” whether refering to God or god.???

May 12, 2008 at 9:24 am#108265

Participant

Isn't just a bit strange that the same Trinity gospel that is preached today is alien to the first century gospel?

If you took that doctrine back to the first century, they wouldn't know what you were talking about, if you came preaching the Trinity.

May 12, 2008 at 9:32 am#108266