The Trinity Doctrine

Participant

T8- A donkey has the nature of a donkey, not of God! I pulled this from the heaven.net site. In the beginning was the woman,b) and the woman was with the man c) and the woman was man. With the above being said, the web site claimed that this was talking about Jesus having God's nature.

This being said from this web site, we can say that the women is man. Is she not still human. And just because the women is in authority to the man, it doesn't make her any less human, or sub-human. She still is man(human) her (nature) Since Jesus is a being with God's nature, that would make him God by default. And just because God is the head of Christ, doesn't make him anyless God. If you say that this makes him anyless than God, then you are forced to say that the woman is less than man(human) and is sub-human, because she is in subjection to the man.

May 12, 2008 at 5:59 pm#108270

Participant

gsilva72…..You assumption that Jesus' Godly nature was his own is wrong, Jesus plainly said He could do nothing of Himself, but the Father who was (in Him) did the works. That shows a destination between He and God . Jesus is called the Christ, what does that mean, it means he was anointed, if he was anointed by The Father God with Holy Spirit, then He was not born with it, or why did he need to be anointed with it. Your analigy of Adam and Eve does not work with Jesus and God the Father, because Adam and Eve has the same natures, Carnal natures the same as we are born with, Jesus was born with Human nature also or how could he ever be tempted in all mannor of sin as were are, because it says God cannot be tempted with sin, but it says Jesus was tempted. So he had to have our nature for that to happen.

Jesus (OVERCAME) as we are supposed to, How?, by the same spirit that was added to his life, which was the Holy Spirit , He was Anointed with it,, And with this mind of that Spirit we also should (OVERCOME) also, there is (NO) difference between US and Jesus, If you have the Spirit of God in you. Wherefore He (JESUS) is not ashamed to call them (BRETHREN), why do you think we are heirs and (JOINT HEIRS) with Him, it's because we are the same as He is. Just as it says as He is so are we, and again if this mind be in you, which was in Christ Jesus our lord (IT) will (also) Quicken (bring to life) Your mortal bodies

And I did forget to bring out what, Tim, brought out that the (original) Geek had (NO) upper or lower case lettering. Thanks Tim.

peace to you all………..gene

May 12, 2008 at 6:08 pm#108271

Participant

gsilva72…..You assumption that Jesus' Godly nature was his own is wrong, Jesus plainly said He could do nothing of Himself, but the Father who was (in Him) did the works. That shows a destination between He and God . Jesus is called the Christ, what does that mean, it means he was anointed, if he was anointed by The Father God with Holy Spirit, then He was not born with it, or why did he need to be anointed with it. Your analogy of Adam and Eve does not work with Jesus and God the Father, because Adam and Eve has the same natures, Carnal natures the same as we are born with, Jesus was born with Human nature also or how could he ever be tempted in all manner of sin as were are, because it says God cannot be tempted with sin, but it says Jesus was tempted. So he had to have our nature for that to happen.

And I did forget to bring out what, Tim, brought out that the (original) Geek had (NO) upper or lower case lettering. Thanks Tim.

peace to you all………..gene

May 12, 2008 at 6:09 pm#108272

Participant

sorry about the double take, hit the wrong button.

gene

May 12, 2008 at 6:39 pm#108273

Participant

gsilva72…..> One of the greatest deceptions ever on man kind is this idea that Jesus was different then us. Why?, because it discourages people, Who?. it makes us think we really can't truly be exactly like Jesus, and we cant aspire to what He Did, because after He's God and we know were not, So we then disregard our likeness to Jesus and thats exactly what Satan want us to think. But Jesus said Just the opposite< "he that (overcomes) even as (I) have", over and over this is brought out in the new testament, Jesus draws no distinction between Him and Us, So Who does is it not the False teachings of the trinity and other false teachings that does it.

Anyone who separates Jesus' likeness from Himself is simply non of His. Unless you are growing into the (FULL) measure of Christ (the anointing) you (cannot overcome your sins). Jesus was (exactly) the same as we are and we must overcome exactly as he did, with exactly the same Spirit He had, (ONE) God in all and through ALL.

This is the Gospel message….Our Brother Jesus Overcame and has eternal life, and we who are (JUST) like Him can also, by the (SAME) way HE did. Don't let no one make Jesus different then yourself. God showed us plainly HE can deliver us from this bondage of death that in us, and it's exactly the same way He delivered Jesus from His bondage of Death

Do not make a difference between yourself and Jesus and you will gain great Hope.

love and peace to you all……………..gene

May 12, 2008 at 9:41 pm#108274

Participant

Gene/Timothy IV- You are wrong to say that there is no difference between us and Jesus. You see, we had earthly fathers. Jesus did not. Jesus had no sin. But David said, I was born in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. If he was not God, he could not saved us from our sins, much less forgive sins.

Once again, if the Greek didn't have capital letters, or lower case letters, then I guess those Greek scholars who translated the King James Bible or earlier translations were ignorant of that. I guess they just randomly picked whether the word “God” or “god” would have a “G” or a “g” There is no consistancy in your claim, because if it didn't matter, then everything would be translated as a “g” when referring to Jesus Christ and idols. Or, everthing would be translated as a “G” when referring to Jesus Christ and idols. So the reasoning doesn't fly. I guess the scholars were wrong too

May 13, 2008 at 1:28 am#108275

Participant

gsilva…. O it did matter to trinitarian translators, thats why they upper and lower cased the word. Please don't take our word for it look it up for yourself. The differences you mentioned have nothing to do with Jesus' likeness of us, it has to do with God's Spirit with Him and the preordained destiny that God performed in this man Jesus. If you think that the fact that God caused the DNA in Mary to be a man Named Jesus, Means that makes a difference between us, you are completely wrong.

Jesus did not sin (because God was with Him) God can do that with anyone He chooses to, but thats what trinitarians don't want people to see because it brakes there Hold over them. That the churches have used sense it started in 525 AD at the Council of Nicia. A false teaching starting hundreds of years after Jesus' Death.

Then how about the Miracle God performed by creating Adam and Eve a much greater miracle the that of Jesus' berth. Adam and Eve had no earthly father either, Do you see any difference between us and Adam who is called the son of God, and our self's. Using your logic you should see a difference, but the fact is there is no difference is there, no matter how they were brought into existence and this holds the same with Jesus. The way a person is physically put together has nothing to do with His deferences.

God combined with Jesus in His Flesh which he considered a Temple just like He does us. No you not You are the temples of God. God co- habited a plain human man and caused Him not to sin and perfected Him to where He is now, and can do that with anyone He choses, Or do you think Jesus was lying when he said he could do (NOTHING) of His self.

If you see Jesus as different then you then theres no point trying to be like Him is there, seeing you think you never can be. So tell us how is the mind of Christ in you then, seeing Jesus is nothing like you. What in common do you have with Him, from what you say you have nothing in common do you, so how can you be a Heir and (JOINT HEIR) with Jesus? And how can He call us Brothers and How can we like Him pray (OUR) Father who is in heaven, the Word (OUR) meant His and Ours.

The breaking up of the likeness of Jesus and us is of Satan himself. And it's exactly what He wants you to believe.

IMO…..gene

May 13, 2008 at 3:39 am#108276

Participant

I have everything in common with him. He is my Lord and savior. And has Thomas said, ” My Lord and my God! Just another scripture to ponder. Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

May 13, 2008 at 7:26 am#108278

gollamudi

Participant

Amen my brother Gene,
I fully endorse your views on Jesus. He was a model to you and me in all respects. Otherwise there is no hope for any christian in this world. Christianity will be like any other religion which purely depend on dos and don'ts.

A couple of days before I met a pastor who was claiming that he is following the only True God Father and Jesus is His son. When I intrageted with him he was telling that Jesus was the angel of Yahwey(Jehova) mentioned in the Old Testament. He also told that the only True God did not give the Law of Moses. Only the angel of Jehova was the creator and giver of the law. That's why the Old Testament (the Law) failed/imperfect. And there was the necessity for the True God to intervene and send His son Jesus to rectify it. He was also mentioning that Jehova /the angel of Jehova was the cruel person, always wanted animal sacrifices, killed many people, supported deceipt and was visible as God to many people in the Old Testament like Adam, Abraham, Hagar, Jacob, Gideon. Manoha etc. He argued that the only True God mentioned by Jesus is the real God fulfilling all attributes of God and He is invisible, immortal, gracious, loving, God of gods and Lord of lords. He was not seen or heard by anybody in this world so far.

I asked him whether the God mentioned in Old Testament was different from the New Testament. He told that the only True God was not revealed in the Old Testament, but He was revealed only in New Testament by Jesus. I also asked him how can an angel become human being again. He told it is possible to God when it was possible in the case of John the baptist taking the spirit of Elijah.

I argued with him with many verses but he was not convinced. Please through some light in this regard. I know God has given you much understanding better than many in this forum.
God bless you.
Adam

May 13, 2008 at 2:00 pm#108279

Participant

gsilva72………….Yes Jesus is lord, but don't stop there, because scripture shows that we should confess Jesus as lord, to the (GLORY OF GOD), lets not leave that part out. Where Thomas said my lord (AND) my God, it finely downed on Thomas the God the Father was in Jesus and was present there also, God was indwelling Jesus through His Spirit, the same Spirit He can indwell all with.

But to say God was in Jesus and say Jesus was God is a different thing.Don't you think if Thomas meant Jesus was God Himself, he would have said, my Lord God, instead of my lord (and) my God, Thomas simply came to realize what Jesus was saying all along that the Father was (IN) Him, doing the works.

All these things are easily to understand , if you get the trinitarian brain wash job, out of your thinking, Look at Jesus as another human being, who God foreknew, predestined, sanctified, perfected, and glorified. And if the Spirit of Him that raised Jesus from the Grave be in you (IT) shall do the same thing for you as (IT) Did for Jesus our Lord, to the Glory of God The Father.

peace to all who understand these things……………..gene

May 13, 2008 at 2:39 pm#108280

Participant

gollamudi…..> I have heard that before also that there were two different God's , But scripture says there is only one God. And is state in the old testament and new as,”Hear O Israel the Lord our God is One Lord”, And God Himself said there is no God Besides Me, I know not ONE, He said.

Adam…. You have to remember there are thousand of false teaching out there and Satan would like nothing better then for you to by into them, they will distract you from the truth God has already given you, but don't worry about it, “For He who has begun a work in you, will complete it”, and greater is He thats in you then he thats in the world.

Just keep doing what your doing and the recognizability of truth given you by the spirit of truth will guide you into all truth. “Brethren you have no need of a teacher, because the spirit itself will guide you into all truth”. Just keep seeking, knocking and asking and God our Father will guide you.

Adam……….love and peace to you and yours…………….gene

May 13, 2008 at 4:23 pm#108281

Participant

Quote (gsilva72 @ May 13 2008,03:01)

God + God = God

Man + Man = Man

God + Man = Divine Man

Hi GS,

My theory is not a popular one, but it might speak to some of your concerns? I believe the gospels were written to be understood plainly. When God overshadowed Mary with his holy Spirit, he became essentially an expectant Father. Jesus is his Son. Jesus was also born of Mary, and is Mary's Son.

Jesus is the son of Man, and the Son of God. This is a hard concept for some to accept.

Jesus is a new creation.

May 13, 2008 at 5:22 pm#108284

Participant

Hi Colter,

I wish I was more familiar with your belief system, it would be easier for me to answer you. But I'll give it a shot anyway.

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Where does your personality come from, the dust or from God? If God is your Father and not the happenstance of lifeless atoms in a meaningless cosmos, if you could be born into your physical being then why can't the creator do the same?

My personality is the result of the fused DNA of my father and mother. There has been much study on personality and some entertain the ideas of “nurture” versus “nature” with regards to it. But the truth is that man and women create child. In Jesus' case, God represented (or stood in for) the man. The rest was staus quo.

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If Jesus is “finite” (had a beginning in time) yet now is vested with all power and authority on heaven and earth, then he's effectively been our God for 2000 years. Maybe he had ” on the job training”? That's why it's difficult to take anti-Trinitarian's seriously, you guys are just being stubborn about the consequences of denying Jesus divinity.

No doubt that I am a bit stubborn, but I do not deny Jesus' divinity. I believe he is a divine man (I also have a bit of an off-theology here. A misfit, if you will). But remember the Jesus will turn over his authority to God so that God can be all in all. That is an important passage to not skip over. If the God Jesus turns his power over to will be all in all…..what does that make Jesus?

May 13, 2008 at 7:24 pm#108299

Participant

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* Jesus never at anytime anywhere said that he would relinquish power back to God. That's post-ascension Messiah redo thinking by Jewish converts to the new gospel of Christianity. Jesus gospel is not what Christianity became.

I'm afraid it's hard debate someone who is not using the same book. We can speculate all day what was *really* said or what was truly recorded correctly, but the truth of the matter is neither one of us was there. '

It takes faith to believe what you are embracing, as much faith as it takes to embrace the bible. I'm beginning to get an idea of where you are coming from.

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* But if Jesus is going to relinquish such power and authority, what does that make him right now?

God's Son? :;):

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* As for my belief, in this instance I'm talking about what the Bible says about Jesus, more specifically, what Jesus said about Jesus

And the bible says Jesus will allow God to be all in all.

May 13, 2008 at 9:08 pm#108301

Participant

Quote (Colter @ May 14 2008,08:05)

Quote (Not3in1 @ May 14 2008,07:24)

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It takes faith to believe what you are embracing, as much faith as it takes to embrace the bible. I'm beginning to get an idea of where you are coming from.

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* But if Jesus is going to relinquish such power and authority, what does that make him right now?

God's Son? :;):

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* As for my belief, in this instance I'm talking about what the Bible says about Jesus, more specifically, what Jesus said about Jesus

And the bible says Jesus will allow God to be all in all.

I C, your avoiding the obvious,

* After Jesus was resurrected, he began to appear and disappear, that's not human.

* You can't point to where Jesus said that he would relinquish power because Jesus didn't say it. Those who came after Jesus, like Paul, made speculations about who Jesus was, because, as it says IN THE BIBLE, they thought he was “soon to return”. Peter, as well as the rest of the apostles often seemed baffled by Jesus' teaching, yet after Jesus left suddenly everything they said and did is the word of God

* The web of conflicting “theo-gymnastics” that anti-Christ have us trying to decider is, God is one, he created a God Jr. as a man, has now given him the power of God (even though he is a floating space man) at Gods right side, but at some future time will take that power away and send him back to mortality to rule the world.

* If Jesus was the Jewish Messiah then we wouldn't be Christians, we would be some form of Judaism, but Jesus' gospel was far different from Judaism and he was different from their expected Messiah.

Colter

Avoiding the obvious? I think you are giving me too much credit here. :laugh:

According to the bible, it is said of Jesus that after a time he will give all authority back to God so that he will be all in all. I believe it's in 1 Corinthians but I would have to dust off my bible to find it for you. It's there.

I believe that you are correct in that the Jews expected a different messiah. At least that is the programing I have received since childhood. They expected the prophesies to come true upon the first appearance of the so-called messiah (the lion will lay down with the lamb and so on). There was no talk of a “second coming”.

God Jr. – I like it.

:;):

May 13, 2008 at 9:30 pm#108302

Participant

“God Jr.” = “God with us”?

hmmm

May 13, 2008 at 11:51 pm#108303

Participant

Welcome back Mandy, 1 Corinthians 15:28 “Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. This does not mean Jesus is no longer God. It means Christ has defeated sin and those who belonged to Christ were reconciled back to God. But Christ is still God and that is how we will see him. 1 John 5:7 says For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. How are they one if they are not God? Also, Revelation 1:8 states “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. Now if Jesus is not God, he can't be called the almighty. I don't disagree that Christ is fully man, otherwise he couldn't have died on the cross if he wasn't fully man. He was born of the Virgin Mary by the power of the Holy Ghost. Colossians 2:9 states, For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; this can't be if he is not God. I'm currently not a Trinitarian. I am currently a oneness believer. The one thing I guess Trinitarians and Oneness believers have in common is that they both believe Jesus is God.

May 14, 2008 at 4:05 am#108305

Participant

Quote (gsilva72 @ May 14 2008,11:51)

I don't disagree that Christ is fully man, otherwise he couldn't have died on the cross if he wasn't fully man.

And he couldn't have died on the cross if he was God, either.
For God cannot die.

Hey thanks for the welcome back!
Mandy

May 14, 2008 at 4:07 am#108306