- This topic has 18,301 replies, 269 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 5 months ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 19 2008,11:28) WJ…..So your saying He (really) wasn't exactly like us then right. Was he a sinner? Do you know any other man that wasn’t a sinner? How many men do you know is the only Way, the Only Truth, and the life to all men? How many other men could baptize men in the Holy Spirit? How many men are the “Bread of life” that came down from heaven? How many other men can dwell in the hearts of millions of believers receiving and answering their prayers all at once? How many other men can be in the midst of every group of three gathered in his name all at once? Has any other man taken part in the creation of all things? You think these attributes are of a mere man? A man with these attributes would have to be a God. But God didn’t duplicate himself through the creation of Jesus as some may suppose. Jesus is and was the Word/God that existed face to face with the Father from eternity. There is no other man like that nor ever will be.
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. John 1:18 NIV
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 19 2008,11:28)
Then please tell me why it say's, for it behoved Him to be made like His (BRETHREN) Why would it behove the almighty God to be like His brethren, it says his brethren , not his children,The scripture is…
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death–that is, the devil–
and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants.
For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.These passages beg the question “How did Jesus share in our humanity?” Do we share in our humanity or are we just human? Jesus the Word/God had to come in the flesh, (John 1:14) in order to destroy sin in the flesh.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the *likeness* of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Romans 8:3
If Paul didnt mean preexistense here, then they are just wasted words.
It should read… “God sending his own Son, condemned sin in the flesh”.
Why use the term 'likeness of sinful flesh”?
The Greek word for likeness is, “homoioma” which means, 1) that which has been made after the likeness of something
a) a figure, image, likeness, representation
b) likeness i.e. resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identityIt is the same Greek word found here…
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness (“homoima”) of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Phil 2:6-8The Greek word for fashion is “schema” which means, 1) the habitus, as comprising everything in a person which strikes the senses, the figure, bearing, discourse, actions, manner of life etc.
Again, why all the extra Biblical language?
Why “Form of a servant, likeness of men, and fashion as a man?
In other words, “Jesus who was in the form of God, the Word/God took on the likeness, “homoioma”, of sinful flesh (notice it is not sinful flesh but the likeness of), and shared our humanity and in so doing was found in fashion as a man with our senses, manner of life and actions.
The Word/God, his Spirit, (since the Word is Spirit), that was with the Father, did not change in its nature, since Spirit is Spirit and flesh is flesh, but Jesus the Word “Tabernacled” (John 1:14, dwelt) among us and we beheld his Glory. All others who were born before his natural birth into this world, and All those who followed would have failed.
No other being but God could destroy sin in the flesh. This is why we have only one Savior and that is God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 19 2008,11:28)
I throught we were God's children not brethren. Looks like we have another deli-ma, but i am sure the trinitarians have figured a way around that also, so let's hear it.Gene, you have the dilemma, because you have scriptures that clearly say Jesus is true God and yet you deny them.
So you think Jesus is only your brother. Jesus is everything to us. So tell me are you going to marry your brother? He is the Bridegroom of the Bride, his church, his body, is he not? Jesus is a brother because he “shared or humanity”.
So what do you think of this scripture? …
Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. Matthew 12:47-50
So thinking that Jesus being our brother is proof he is not God is a fallacy.
[quote=Gene Balthrop,April 19 2008,11:28]
And you still have not answered my question, What hop or gain or advantage from a God appearing as a God on earth would there be to me, (NONE).I have answered your question, but since there is more than one answer, I will see if you accept this one.
Only God could destroy sin in the flesh. Every other man before and after the Word/God came in the flesh failed. Consider this GB, we have the Spirit of God in us and we still fail and sin. Jesus committed no sin, there was no sin in him, because he was perfect.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 19 2008,11:28)
But i know what advantage we would receive if a ordinary Man who has the living God in Him and guiding Him and empowering Him to overcome sin, would be to Us. Especially if that same God can indwell us also and empower us to overcome sin like He did Jesus through the annointing that was in Him. That would give great hop to us all. There is (only one God and one Medeatior (Between) God and Man, the (MAN) Jesus the anointed or Christ, either way it means the same thing. The medeator is a (MAN) NOT A GOD IMO…..geneYou are correct, the mediator is a man, but God and the mediator are one.
I have a question for you GB. Was Jesus's spirit a man?
Blessings!
Quote (martian @ April 20 2008,23:37) I keep coming to the same roadblock when it comes to the concept of Jesus as God. No mater how I try to see other’s points on the subject, the end conclusion continues to be outlandish.
One of the primary missions of Christ life is to be an example for the rest of humanity on how to walk with God. To claim divinity for Christ places Him in a non human category. Call it what you will, dual natured, pre-existent, 100% God 100% man, God/man it still changes the very nature of that being and brings into question everything that Christ did and says we can do. If Christ is God then I cannot in reality be like him. This in essence scraps the whole concept of other’s following in Christ steps and the plan of God to raise up other’s like Christ.
Setting aside all of the supposed scriptural proofs on either side one sometimes has to look at the end conclusion of the proofs we post. If Christ is God we cannot be like Him. With that conclusion, you will need rewrite most of Christianity because that is one of the foundations of Christianity. Sometimes I wonder if those that support those concepts really believe we can become like Christ. I do not know how they can and still hold onto a Christ that is different then us.
Martian, you're right. The notion that a person who existed in the from of God and “was God”, yet chose to relinquish this existence to take on the form of a bondservant and become flesh IS “outlandish”! As is the notion that this person, Who “made all things” allowed Himself to be humiliated, tortured and killed by the very hands of those whom He created. Utterly outlandish.Yet…this is what scripture teaches.
Blessings
Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 21 2008,19:19) Quote (martian @ April 20 2008,23:37) I keep coming to the same roadblock when it comes to the concept of Jesus as God. No mater how I try to see other’s points on the subject, the end conclusion continues to be outlandish.
One of the primary missions of Christ life is to be an example for the rest of humanity on how to walk with God. To claim divinity for Christ places Him in a non human category. Call it what you will, dual natured, pre-existent, 100% God 100% man, God/man it still changes the very nature of that being and brings into question everything that Christ did and says we can do. If Christ is God then I cannot in reality be like him. This in essence scraps the whole concept of other’s following in Christ steps and the plan of God to raise up other’s like Christ.
Setting aside all of the supposed scriptural proofs on either side one sometimes has to look at the end conclusion of the proofs we post. If Christ is God we cannot be like Him. With that conclusion, you will need rewrite most of Christianity because that is one of the foundations of Christianity. Sometimes I wonder if those that support those concepts really believe we can become like Christ. I do not know how they can and still hold onto a Christ that is different then us.
Martian, you're right. The notion that a person who existed in the from of God and “was God”, yet chose to relinquish this existence to take on the form of a bondservant and become flesh IS “outlandish”! As is the notion that this person, Who “made all things” allowed Himself to be humiliated, tortured and killed by the very hands of those whom He created. Utterly outlandish.Yet…this is what scripture teaches.
Blessings
Than you for your oppinion. I have a diffent oppinion. Untill we agre on a set of honest principles to interpret scripture opinion is all we will ever have.Quote (Not3in1 @ April 21 2008,14:50) Martian, this sounds like it needs it's own thread. Maybe snip your last post and begin a new thread so we don't hijack the Trinity thread. Thanks,
Mandy
Actually this type of post is very appropriate to this subject or any other one. All that is being accomplished so far is everyone voicing their opinion without any real proof. Sure they quote scripture and are very verbose about it. They even at times do a small amount to research into the language but few have a consistent list of honest principles to safeguard and insure that what they postulate is really able to stand up to close scrutiny.It has been my experience that several motives drive those that refuse to use any proper translation methods. Quite frankly one is simple laziness. We are living in the generation of instant gratification and many do not want to take the time or effort to really research their stand. For some it is lack of education in how to really investigate the meaning of scripture. Still other hard core doctrinalists are not interested because when they have tried it they found their doctrine lacking and would rather stay in a dishonest mode of interpretation then to give up their doctrine.
Wj……..When you stop all the gandy dancing around still it say “It (BEHOVED HIM) to be made like unto his (Brethern) . Heb 2:17..> “wherefore in (all things) it (BEHOVED HIM) to be made like unto his (BRETHERN)”, Why?,” that he might be a merciful and faithfull high preist “, (not a merciful and hight GOD), “in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliations for the sins of the peole”.
Tell me without a whole page of fabercating your trinitarian idologies Why and How would it BEHOVE HIM, that is if he was truly almighty God to be made like us. What would he have to gain by that if he were almighty God Himself. Again you refuse to answer questions simply and directly. Why because trintarians have to spin off subject matter and cloud issues inorder to keep their false droctrins alive.
So let me tell you why it (behoved Jesus ) our brother, Because this man (Not God) needed to learn and understand our condition in order to serve in His capacity as a HIGH PREIST, for us. Not in the capacity of a GOD.
How much proof do you need WJ, before you come to see the trinity is a false teaching.
may God help you to see this WJ………..gene
new math for old problem of Trinity proof
1x1x1=1
1 to the 3rd power=1
1px1px1p=1p cubed
A cube has 3 dimentions or 1 cube/3 dimentions
Those who use paganism to “prove” the Trinity isn't real, have not done a very good job of researching pagan “trigods”. They made sure that their triple gods were seperate gods just attached w/ one body. Their gods had distinct attributes not shared attributes.
Belief in the Trinity is as simple as belief in time…
Time is past, present, future. The past is not the present. The present is not the future. The future is not the past. However, all are still time. One is not better than or greater than the other.How about space?
Space is height, width, and depth. Height is not width. Width is not depth. Depth is not height. But all are space.Or matter?
Matter is solid, liquid, or gas. Solid is not liquid. Liquid is not gas. Gas is not Solid. All are matter.Welcome Proverbs 31.11
Looks like we have the same avatar but different views on the relationship within the Godhead.
How about this analogy:
Father and Son. The Son is not the Father, the Father is not the Son. The Father existed before the Son, the Son was born of the Father.
I don't know if you want to change your avatar, it doesn't matter to me but it might get confusing to others. Anyway, welcome, and look forward to your posts.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 22 2008,16:05) Wj……..When you stop all the gandy dancing around still it say “It (BEHOVED HIM) to be made like unto his (Brethern) . Heb 2:17..> “wherefore in (all things) it (BEHOVED HIM) to be made like unto his (BRETHERN)”, Why?,” that he might be a merciful and faithfull high preist “, (not a merciful and hight GOD), “in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliations for the sins of the peole”. Tell me without a whole page of fabercating your trinitarian idologies Why and How would it BEHOVE HIM, that is if he was truly almighty God to be made like us. What would he have to gain by that if he were almighty God Himself. Again you refuse to answer questions simply and directly. Why because trintarians have to spin off subject matter and cloud issues inorder to keep their false droctrins alive.
So let me tell you why it (behoved Jesus ) our brother, Because this man (Not God) needed to learn and understand our condition in order to serve in His capacity as a HIGH PREIST, for us. Not in the capacity of a GOD.
How much proof do you need WJ, before you come to see the trinity is a false teaching.
may God help you to see this WJ………..gene
GBYou didnt answer the question.
I answered yours twice.
Is the Spirit of Jesus human?
Quote (proverbs31.11 @ April 23 2008,00:44) new math for old problem of Trinity proof 1x1x1=1
Of course 1 of 1 of 1 is alway that “1” that you begin with. So, also, 1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x
1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x
1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x
1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x
1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1 is still only the original “1”.Nothing in stating that the original “1” of that “1” is always equal to that original “1” means that the trinity has three persons, all of whom are equal to the original one.
Quote (proverbs31.11 @ April 23 2008,00:44)
1 to the 3rd power=1Another way of saying that the original one of itself is always equal to that original one.
Quote (proverbs31.11 @ April 23 2008,00:44)
1px1px1p=1p cubedA cube has 3 dimentions or 1 cube/3 dimentions
[/quote]For such to illustrate the trinity, each dimension of the cube must be equal to the whole of the cube, not a part of the cube, since the trinity dogma claims that each member of the trinity is equal to all of God, not part of God.
In other words, Each “1p” of a cube of itself must be equal to “1p cubed” in order for it the match the trinitarian formula. Does it?
Christian love,
RonaldWJ…….The Spirit of Jesus the person is the same as the spirits we have. Now the Spirit that was Joined with His Spirit is God's Spirit and that is the Same Spirit thats in all who have God's Spirit in them , it called the Spirit Of Christ or the Spirit of the Anointing, which is God's Spirit it was in Jesus and is in All who have been given it also. It's the same Spirit and indwell all who have it, “God works in us Both to will and do his pleasure”, just as He did in Jesus. Whats so hard to understand about this.
Now why did it (BEHOVE) Jesus to be made like us. What did (He) have to gain by being like Us, seeing He was almighty God the Creator of all things as you say. And why is He refered here as a Brother of ours, is He both a Brother and a Father of us also at the same time. These are simple straight forward questions and i don't think is should take a whole page to explain them do you.
The word (Behoved) him, means He had some thing (personely) to gain, by being made like His (brothers).
What would God personely have to gain by being like us. I can understand why a human called to be a High Preist would have a lot to gain by being like his brothers but almighty God the creator of all things would have nothing to gain by being like us in (every way).Lets try to be honest Here WJ. Stop dancing around the straight forward questions.
IMO…………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 23 2008,04:23) WJ…….The Spirit of Jesus the person is the same as the spirits we have. Now the Spirit that was Joined with His Spirit is God's Spirit and that is the Same Spirit thats in all who have God's Spirit in them , it called the Spirit Of Christ or the Spirit of the Anointing, which is God's Spirit it was in Jesus and is in All who have been given it also. It's the same Spirit and indwell all who have it, “God works in us Both to will and do his pleasure”, just as He did in Jesus. Whats so hard to understand about this. Now why did it (BEHOVE) Jesus to be made like us. What did (He) have to gain by being like Us, seeing He was almighty God the Creator of all things as you say. And why is He refered here as a Brother of ours, is He both a Brother and a Father of us also at the same time. These are simple straight forward questions and i don't think is should take a whole page to explain them do you.
The word (Behoved) him, means He had some thing (personely) to gain, by being made like His (brothers).
What would God personely have to gain by being like us. I can understand why a human called to be a High Preist would have a lot to gain by being like his brothers but almighty God the creator of all things would have nothing to gain by being like us in (every way).Lets try to be honest Here WJ. Stop dancing around the straight forward questions.
IMO…………gene
Gene,
You might consider the following –The Hebrew word “neshemah” (strongs 5397)meaning breath or wind is synonymous with ”ruahh” (Strongs 7307) which is mostly translated “spirit”. One of the primary writing styles in Hebrew is the poetic style of parallelism. In this style one matter is spoken of twice from different perspectives to bring more clear understanding. Notice with this style of poetry recognized the similar nature of these two words.
All the while my breath (neshemah) is in me and the wind (ruahh) is in my nose (Job 27:3)
The wind (ruahh) has made me and the breath (neshemah) of the almighty has given me life. (Job 33:4)Ruahh also carries an additional meaning and can be discovered by looking at words derived from the same root parent word.
Deut 33:14 with the best the sun brings forth and the finest the moon (yere”ahh) can yield;
Job 31: 32 but no stranger had to spend the night in the street, for my door was always open to the traveler (orehh)
Exo 11: 5 Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand millstone (rehhah), and all the firstborn of the cattle as wellThe three words translated moon, traveler, and millstone may seem quite different but from a functional standpoint they do have a common thread. They all follow a prescribed path. The moon on it’s journey across the sky. The traveler from his starting place to his destination and the millstone round it’s circular path in the mill.
The Hebrews a nomadic people lived by the trade winds. They could not see the wind but could recognize it’s effects. Following the winds they traveled from pasture to pasture and “ruahh” Spirit, the wind guided them on their prescribed path. In the same way God cannot be seen but His effects can be clearly seen. Even as the wind follows a prescribed path through the seasons, so does God.
God reveals himself through His character which is never changing. It never strays from the prescribed road and never goes off the straight path.
The Hebrew word for straight is “tsadiyq” and is often translated as righteous.For the LORD knows the road of the righteous and the road of the wicked will perish. (Psalm 1:6)
O, LORD point me to your road and lead me on a level path (Psalm 27:11)Genesis 2:7?Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and blew (breathed 5301) into his nostrils the spirit/wind (breath neshamah 5397) of life; and man became a living being
Genesis 6:17?”Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath/wind of God (breath ruahh 7307) of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.
Genesis 7:15?So they went into the ark to Noah, by twos of all flesh in which was the breath/wind of God (breath 7307) of life.
Genesis 7:22?of all that was on the dry land, all in whose nostrils was the breath/wind (5397) of the breath/wind of God (7307) of life, died.God gives us a measure of His breath. It is what animates us and gives us life. He also gives us free will to chose to use that breath/wind to travel our own path or to move in sinc with His prescribed path of His blowing wind or breath.
When Jesus gave up his spirit on the cross, he was giving up the animating life giving wind that God gives to all men. It was the last measure of obedience. He would not utilize his life’s breath for a purpose outside of God’s will. He completely relinquished his right to have any controll over his life.
.Matthew 27:50?And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spiritA. T. Robertson describes this verse as such –
Yielded up his spirit (aphken to pneuma). The loud cry may have been Psalms 31:5 as given in Luke 23:46: “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.” John (John 19:30) gives It is finished (tetelestai), though which was actually last is not clear. Jesus did not die from slow exhaustion, but with a loud cry. He breathed out (exepneusen, Mark 15:37), sent back his spiritJesus committed his life into the hands of His father.
Luke 23:46?And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT.” Having said this, He breathed His last.Jesus gave His life
John 19:30?Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, ” It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.This is the fate of all men. The life we are given belongs to God.
Ecclesiastes 12:7?then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the breath of God (spirit 7307) will return to God who gave it.
Psalm 146:4?His breath of God ( 7307) departs, he returns to the earth;In that very day his thoughts perish.Psalm 104
28You give to them, they gather it up;? You open Your hand, they are satisfied with good. ?
29You hide Your face, they are dismayed;? You take away their breath of God ( 7307), they expire? And return to their dust. ?
30You send forth Your breath of God (7307), they are created;? And You renew the face of the ground.Job 12
9″Who among all these does not know That the hand of the LORD has done this, ?
10In whose hand is the life of every living thing,? And the breath of God ( 7307) of all mankind?Luke 23:46?And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT.” Having said this, He breathed His last.
John 19:30?Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, ” It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.
When some ask did Jesus have a human spirit? The real question is do any of us or is the life giving animating breath/spirit only borrowed from the creator.
Thanks martain……> i believe our life as well as Jesus' is indeed given and sustained by our Heavenly Father.
peace and health to you and yours brother……………….gene
I Timothy 3:16 “And without great controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
Quote (ronday888 @ April 23 2008,04:17) For such to illustrate the trinity, each dimension of the cube must be equal to the whole of the cube, not a part of the cube, since the trinity dogma claims that each member of the trinity is equal to all of God, not part of God. In other words, Each “1p” of a cube of itself must be equal to “1p cubed” in order for it the match the trinitarian formula. Does it?
Christian love,
Ronald
The 1p x1p x1p= 1p cubed means 1 person of the Trinity x 1 person of the Trinity x 1 person of the Trinity = 1 person with 3 parts to Him. (God= 1p, cubed = Father, Son, HS)A cube= 1 God. 3 dimentions = Father, Son, HS
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 22 2008,16:05) Wj……..When you stop all the gandy dancing around still it say “It (BEHOVED HIM) to be made like unto his (Brethern). Heb 2:17.> “wherefore in (all things) it (BEHOVED HIM) to be made like unto his (BRETHERN)”, Why?,” that he might be a merciful and faithfull high preist “, (not a merciful and hight GOD), “in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliations for the sins of the peole”. Dancing?
It seems you are the one dancing my friend. Listen to your own words.You quote…”It (BEHOVED HIM) to be made like unto his (Brethern)”.
Do you listen to the words you quote? If Jesus were just a mere man like you and I, why would the writer of Hebrews say…”It (BEHOVED HIM) to be made like unto his (Brethern)”
If he was born a mere man, why did he have to be made like us?
The Greek word for behoved is “opheilo”, which means, 1) to owe
a) to owe money, be in debt for
1) that which is due, the debt
2) metaph. the goodwill dueIn English the definition of the word is” to be necessary”. In other words, it was necessary for Jesus to pay a debt by being made like us so that he might be a faithful High Priest to us.
This ties in beautifully with the previous scriptures that you skirted around…
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness (“homoima”) of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Phil 2:6-8
The Greek word for fashion is “schema” which means, 1) the habitus, as comprising everything in a person which strikes the senses, the figure, bearing, discourse, actions, manner of life etc.
Again, why all the extra Biblical language? “Took upon him the form of a servant”. “Was made in the likeness of men”, “Being found in fashion as a man”, To be made like unto his brethren”. If he was merely human and had no preexistence, then these are wasted words.
You take verse 17 out of context and then accuse me of skirting around the scripture.
Remember the context…
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death–that is, the devil–and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
He shared in our humanity GB. How did he do that unless he was something else besides being merely human?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 22 2008,16:05)
Tell me without a whole page of fabercating your trinitarian idologies Why and How would it BEHOVE HIM, that is if he was truly almighty God to be made like us.The fabricating is on your part GB. You totally over look scriptures that clearly teach Jesus preexisted as The Word/God who came in the flesh.
Now that you know what “behoved” means, you should rephrase the question.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 22 2008,16:05)
What would he have to gain by that if he were almighty God Himself. Again you refuse to answer questions simply and directly. Why because trintarians have to spin off subject matter and cloud issues inorder to keep their false droctrins alive.I have answered you twice. Are you looking in the mirror again?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 22 2008,16:05)
So let me tell you why it (behoved Jesus ) our brother, Because this man (Not God) needed to learn and understand our condition in order to serve in His capacity as a HIGH PREIST, for us. Not in the capacity of a GOD.So you still see him as just your brother huh? How about seeing him as “Lord and God” as his own followers did? John 20:20 for example.
Skirt around that!
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 22 2008,16:05)
How much proof do you need WJ, before you come to see the trinity is a false teaching.may God help you to see this WJ………..gene
Sorry, but you haven’t proved Jesus isn’t the Word/God, neither have you proven that he was just a figment of the Fathers imagination in the beginning when the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit created all things. One Creator and one God.
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: Gen 1:26
The Father…
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Gen 1:1
The Son…
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: Heb 1:10
The Holy Spirit…
The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. Job 33:4
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; Isa 44:24
Blessings!
Quote (Guest @ April 23 2008,16:24) I Timothy 3:16 “And without great controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
Mystery of Godliness – Not mystery of God.WJ……It Behoved the (MAN) Jesus who was preordained to come into existence to be made exactly like Us. Why? because if He was to assume a position of High Priest (NOT ALMIGHTY GOD) he need to be a human man, So God impregnated Mary by his creative spirit and cosed her to conceive a son of mankind, not a incarnated preexisting being, a completely human man who had to learn just like we do and grow and suffer death like we do, the only difference between him and us was God Spirit was with him at berth keeping him from sinning. And it did (BEHOVE HIM) to be made just like is in every way and how was Jesus made like us, by being the exact same as us and no more preexistence then we are. Again your trinitarian dogma is stopping you from seeing this. If Jesus was any then other than our (exact sameness) in every way with only one exception and that was God was with him from berth keeping him from sinning , he could not clam to be really one of us or a true son of man, as he did claim. You are simpling denying Jesus's work and sacrifice as a purely human being, and you cannot ever expect to be his brother or exactly like Him with your trinitatian views. Trinitarians Have simply created Jesus in a Man Of Sin spoken of in 2 THES, by saying he is almighty GOD , which just as it says He will abolish at His return.
IMO……………gene
IMO………….gene
Hello everyone, following along when I have time, very interesting debates but I had to throw this in. Gene then did the Holy Spirit from birth take away Jesus's free will to sin if he chose. (If so temptation would not be temptation if it was never an option). Trinitarian dogma or not every human ever created had the capacity to sin. If they did not then they were not human. So would this make Jesus not exactly like us because he never had the capacity to sin.(Because of the Holy Spirit at birth thing.) Samson and many other men at different times had the Holy Spirits anointing but still dropped the ball. God Bless Chip
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
