The Trinity Doctrine

Participant

Hi Gene,
I have looked and looked for the word PLANNED but it is not there.

March 13, 2008 at 7:50 am#107880

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 13 2008,14:07)

Lightenup……. The Glory Jesus had with the fathers before the beginnings of the world was is the planned Glory God had for Jesus before He every came into existence. People who believe in man's self salvation by their (Free Will) choices don't like to think that God does call and cause things to work in accordance with His own Will. He predestened Jesus to the Glory He has, Churches don't want you to see or believe that they want you to think it all up to you and so they invented another God or a preexistence being instead of believing the God is in complete control of everything including their as well as Jesus' salvation.

IMO…….gene

Gen Just one more question and that will be all for me with you, because you just seem to want to ignore. The preexisting of Jesus has nothing to do with the trinity doctrine.

Why do you constantly ignore this scriptures that we have given you. Especially Colossians, it is made so clear there, that He was created before the world was. Tell me how else can you interpret that? First to be created and firstborn of the dead.
Col 1:15-18
Peace and Love Mrs.

March 13, 2008 at 11:20 am#107881

TimothyVI

Participant

Quote (seek and you will find @ Mar. 13 2008,19:50)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 13 2008,14:07)

IMO…….gene

Gen Just one more question and that will be all for me with you, because you just seem to want to ignore. The preexisting of Jesus has nothing to do with the trinity doctrine.

HI Mrs.
Was He in the beginning with God, or was He merely created before the world?
Seems like He would have had to be one or the other, but not both.
If He was created by God then how could He have also been in the beginning with God?

Tim

March 13, 2008 at 2:06 pm#107882

Participant

Hello to all,
I understand the Son of God to be born of God not created by God. He is called the “firstborn” not the “first created”.
Read this from 1 John 5:18-19:

18 We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
NASU
Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
NASU

Jesus, according to my understanding was born of God in the beginning and then much later, was born of woman. In the beginning, again, my understanding, is on day one of creation when God said “Let there be Light”. His son was THAT Light. Through that Light (God's Son) everything in heaven and on earth was created by God, the Father. Note that before God spoke Light into existence, the earth was void and nothing was on earth. In Colossians 1:16a we read that: For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth. Things were created “on” earth after day one.

So in an attempt ,to answer Tim,
IN THE BEGINNING,
( I think-day one of the creation week),
WAS THE WORD
(“let there be Light” and that was when the Son was born, according to my understanding),
AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD
(the Son, that Light was with God),
AND THE WORD WAS GOD.
(the Son, that Light, was and is the only begotten God).
This is once again, how I understand it.

The Son of God is not equal to his own Father. The Son had a beginning, the Father did not.

This, I recognize is my theory but I came to it with much study and a surrendered heart to understanding truth as the Holy Spirit would give to me. I leave it to the reader to test.

March 13, 2008 at 2:44 pm#107883

Participant

Quote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 13 2008,23:20)

Quote (seek and you will find @ Mar. 13 2008,19:50)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 13 2008,14:07)

IMO…….gene

Gen Just one more question and that will be all for me with you, because you just seem to want to ignore. The preexisting of Jesus has nothing to do with the trinity doctrine.

Tim

Why can He not be created and with God too? I don't understand what you are saying. In Rev. 3:14 it says that
The things says the Amen, the Faithful and true Witness, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD.

if something is created it comes into being, so He was with the Father in the very beginning. When you read in

Proverbs 8:22-30 it explains what He was to God.

I don't understand why you and others want to make something else out of this, when it is so clear.

Peace and Love Mrs.

March 13, 2008 at 2:52 pm#107884

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 14 2008,02:06)

Hello to all,
I understand the Son of God to be born of God not created by God. He is called the “firstborn” not the “first created”.
Read this from 1 John 5:18-19:

The Son of God is not equal to his own Father. The Son had a beginning, the Father did not.

This, I recognize is my theory but I came to it with much study and a surrendered heart to understanding truth as the Holy Spirit would give to me. I leave it to the reader to test.

Lightenup He was called the First creation of God in Rev. 3:14

These says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God.

HE WAS CREATED BY GOD, HE CAME FORTH FROM GOD.

Question why don't you belief what is written?

The main thing is that He was there in the very beginning before the world was, before the Angels, before all things were created.

Peace and Love Mrs.

March 13, 2008 at 5:54 pm#107885

Participant

Quote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 13 2008,23:20)

Quote (seek and you will find @ Mar. 13 2008,19:50)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 13 2008,14:07)

IMO…….gene

Gen Just one more question and that will be all for me with you, because you just seem to want to ignore. The preexisting of Jesus has nothing to do with the trinity doctrine.

Tim

Hi Tim4,
He is never said to have been created but rather begotten of God.

March 13, 2008 at 5:55 pm#107886

Participant

ps THE BEGINNING is simply the era before GENESIS, before TIME.
It makes no statement about origins.

March 13, 2008 at 5:59 pm#107887

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2008,05:54)

Quote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 13 2008,23:20)

Quote (seek and you will find @ Mar. 13 2008,19:50)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 13 2008,14:07)

IMO…….gene

Gen Just one more question and that will be all for me with you, because you just seem to want to ignore. The preexisting of Jesus has nothing to do with the trinity doctrine.

Tim

Hi Tim4,
He is never said to have been created but rather begotten of God.

Nick So Rev. 3:14 is my imagination? When I read it, it does say … THE CREATION OF GOD….

AM I DREAMING? I DONT THINK SO.

Peace and Love Mrs.

March 13, 2008 at 6:01 pm#107888

Participant

Hi LU,
Gen 1
'1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. '

If you are correct then the earth was created before the Son was begotten.
Since all creation came through him that seems unlikely as the sons of God rejoiced at the creation of earth[Jb38]

March 13, 2008 at 9:34 pm#107889

Participant

Dear Nick,

You wrote:
——————————————————————————–
Posted: Mar. 14 2008,06:01
Hi LU,
Gen 1
'1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. '

If you are correct then the earth was created before the Son was begotten.
Since all creation came through him that seems unlikely as the sons of God rejoiced at the creation of earth[Jb38]

I write:
That is a good observation Nick, but notice, God created a formless and void earth. What Jesus created was the things “on” the earth as we see in Col 1:16a
16 For by Him all things were created,both in the heavens and on earth…NASU

God created the realm of heaven and the place of earth which was formless and void. Through the Son, God created all things that were ON the earth and those things that were IN heaven. Through the Son, God took the earth from formless and void to formed and inhabited. It became formed and inhabited after day one not before.

Job 38:7
7 When the morning stars sang together
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
NASU

If I am correct in my theory, then the angels, the “morning stars” were shouting for joy over the formed and inhabited earth, not the void and formless earth. Something I just realized is that the first “morning” was after day 1, not before. So, I am wondering how there could be “morning angels” before there was the introduction of a morning concept.

March 13, 2008 at 9:49 pm#107890

Participant

Hi LU,
Does God need time?

March 14, 2008 at 12:34 am#107891

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2008,11:27)

Hi Nick,
I am a mere woman, correct. I am a mere woman without a past existence and history before conception Jesus was a man but He was a man with a past existence and history. That is not the same, in fact, BIG, difference. However, He was born without memory of His past.

He emptied himself.

March 14, 2008 at 2:30 am#107892

Participant

Hi t8,
What do you think that He emptied Himself of?

March 14, 2008 at 2:47 am#107893

The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity: An Outline Study

Participant

Nick,
Does God need time? hmmmm. I suppose it depends on what He wants to accomplish and how He wants to accomplish it. I'm sure He is in control of that too. What is your point?

March 14, 2008 at 3:31 am#107894

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To all…….> Jesus was the first (COMPLETED CREATION OF GOD) Jesus was became the first to image God through God creative process in Him during His lif on earth. He indeed is the first completed creation of God, with many to follow untill all will eventually be saved BY the Same God that saved and perfected Jesus into His very image. And what does it say (“UNTILL WE ALL COME UNTO THE FULL MEASURE OF THE STATURE OF CHRIST”)>

March 14, 2008 at 6:23 am#107895

jhenTux

Participant

a link given to me by a trinitarian:

March 14, 2008 at 6:25 am#107896

Participant

hi jh,
Thanks for nothing.
It is not written.

March 14, 2008 at 6:26 am#107897